Manual Conversion --- Next Project

[Right on the Mark]

sheesh. you need a better trans guy. a good AOD should hold a 351 no problem.
done correctly 500 or 600 hp shouldn't be an issue.

My Lentech street terminator AOD is rated to 600HP but I still snapped the first "unbreakable" hardened one piece input shaft behind my "stock" 5.0 and the bottle. T5 strength is relative to what you call "handle it" does that mean you granny is or race it. All you that say you are leaning on them are really not if your not breaking them.

 

[scjmc]

sheesh. you need a better trans guy. a good AOD should hold a 351 no problem.
done correctly 500 or 600 hp shouldn't be an issue.

I had so many problems that I dont know where to start. Clutch pack, pump, torque converter, valve body, tail shaft, etc. It seemed like every time it was something else. That was even when I had full rebuilds at reputable shops. I even bought and rebuilt a couple of different units from bone yards thinking that a fully diffrent unit would help....

 

[JoshMcMadMac]

All you that say you are leaning on them are really not if your not breaking them.

Or perhaps everyone else just knows how to drive them.

 

[dwiggy]

Just wondering why the 302 is coming out? Whats the reasons?

I guess I went into the project thinking it would be a cheap build and that it had potential for possible kits.

I thought that it would be easier to build a 302 t5 combination then to convert the stock into manual.

If you followed my progress you saw that there was a lot of modifications made to make the 302 work.

The most notable and difficult modification was for the drive accessories - The Explorer serpentine accessories just didn't quiet fit into the car right. I didn't like the way that it looked. I built my own accessory brackets with the Stock Lincoln LS Alternator and power steering pump which look a lot better. However, this took a lot of time and was impractical for a low cost build.

Other than that, I just feel safer with the engine bolted into the car the way it was meant to be from the factory.

P.S. I really like the modern DOHC AJ engine.

 

[dwiggy]

^
Btw, great work with both projects!

Thank you!

 

[dwiggy]

How is 1300 dollars just for gears then you have to do all the work cheaper then a 450 dollar 3650? This is what you need I got this one for free. Do the job right the first time.

We need to set something straight here.

The distance for the shifter in my car is 32 inches. The Bell has to be modified. you have to build a trans mount. You would have to build a clutch/slave combo that would work.

Your solution is not doing it any more "right" than mine. Your solution is doing it differently based off of torque capacity and nothing else.

 

[Telco]

Your solution is not doing it any more "right" than mine. Your solution is doing it differently based off of torque capacity and nothing else.

That's actually a pretty important consideration though. It would suck to go through all the work needed to modify the car and trans to make the two work, just to find that the trans strips the teeth off the gears every time you get into it.

That being said, I'm not getting into the middle of which trans is best as I know little about manual transmissions although I do know quite a bit about what it takes to modify parts from one vehicle to work in another. My pickup, for example, has parts from a half dozen different vehicles in it and as it happens the trans is one of the non-stock parts. I'd make damned sure before going through all that work that the trans would be able to stand up to the engine.

 

[Right on the Mark]

Or perhaps everyone else just knows how to drive them.

Nope comes down to wannabee's thinking their fast. If you're lifting you're losing. Happy now?

 

[joegr]

Nope comes down to wannabee's thinking there fast. If your lifting your losing.

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/misspelling

 

[hinzy]

Nope comes down to wannabee's thinking there fast. If your lifting your losing.

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/misspelling

You didn't highlight the other one joe

 

[joegr]

You didn't highlight the other one joe

Good point. Thanks.

 

[dwiggy]

Let's look at it from the perspective of manual conversion kit.

There might be a couple of options here which would be the easiest to produce (this is probably not the right way to do things according to many in this forum).

Stock 2003^ v8 engine
280 hp (209 kW) @ 6000 rpm
286 lb•ft (388 N•m) @ 4000 rpm

-Option 1-
This option is for 44lb-ft over stock (Exhaust, CAI, Tune, etc.)

Ford V8 t5 can handle 300 lb-ft (Not looking for disputes here I know there are different variants)

An updated version of the t5 out of the 2005 4.0 Mustang can be made to handle 330 lb-ft by using 2.95:1 gear set.

Estimated Cost:

Used 2005^ V6 Trans - 350$
New 2.95 gear set 350$
Drive shaft modification - 150$
Shifter Modification -100$
Pedal Set (Custom Build) - 200$
Flywheel - 400$
Pressure Plate -125$
Clutch Disk – 150$
SCT tune - 380$
Modified Harness 100$
Bell - 300$
Total 330 lb-ft capacity = $2605.00

-Option 2-
This option is for 164lb-ft over stock (i.e., turbo, supercharger, etc.)

The t56 OEM standards range from 330 lb-ft in the original Viper to 550 lb-ft in the current Viper. The gear-set used in the CTS-V model can handle 450lb-ft (2.97:1 first).

Estimated Cost:

Used CTS-V Trans – 1900$
Low-cost 'freshen' – 250$
Drive shaft modification - 150$ (If necessary – the CTS-V uses the same bolt flange as the LS)
Shifter Modification -100$
Pedal Set (Custom Build) - 200$
Flywheel - 400$
Pressure Plate -125$
Clutch Disk – 150$
SCT tune - 380$
Modified Harness 100$
Bell - 600$

Total 450lb-ft capacity = $4355.00

Ok – So, there are no mark-ups here. The parts alone are pretty expensive even in these estimates. Tack on a grand a piece and you are probably closer to where a kit would cost.

Doesn’t it make sense to use a t5 from this perspective?

If I was going to build a race car I wouldn't use a Lincoln LS anyway. For the street this should hold up fine for years.

 

[LS4me]

When it's all said and done you still need to deal with the computer.

 

[dwiggy]

When it's all said and done you still need to deal with the computer.

SCT tune - 380$
Modified Harness 100$


Custom tune to turn off the manual "switches". Works good on my car I just get the "Gear select error" when I first start the car.

 

[JoshMcMadMac]

Nope comes down to wannabee's thinking there fast. If your lifting your losing.

lol, powershift any of these manuals with any frequency and it will grenade. Let me drive your "bulletproof" transmission, I am sure I can break it for you.

 

[Right on the Mark]

We need to set something straight here.

The distance for the shifter in my car is 32 inches. The Bell has to be modified. you have to build a trans mount. You would have to build a clutch/slave combo that would work.

Your solution is not doing it any more "right" than mine. Your solution is doing it differently based off of torque capacity and nothing else.

Please stop with the thought of me personally attacking you. I was just throwing more stuff out there. Would you or others here rather see LESS stuff or MORE? Simple ?. I have NEVER told you to do it this way or else. I was just trying to help a brother out with some info. If thats wrong I will gladly stay out of your posts.
One other ? are the V6 manual LS's hyd or cable clutch? If they are hyd then you just run the stock Ford hyd throwout bearing after you get the stock hyd pedal stuff out of V6. This is the one off the 3650.

Also this trans out of a stang one year newer is the "short" style where the shifter bolts on to back of trans tubular and you can really easy move the shifter front to back.
And yes the trans capacity was of concern to me(but that means nothing to some). You are 1000lbs heavier (3000 vs 4000)and 225HP Vs 280HP. I don't know your personal experience with T5's so I just wanted to add some to the post that's all.

 

[Right on the Mark]

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/misspelling

Now the spelling police arrive?

 

[Right on the Mark]

lol, powershift any of these manuals with any frequency and it will grenade. Let me drive your "bulletproof" transmission, I am sure I can break it for you.

I got out of manuals long ago after breaking my knee 2 times. I powershifted all my T5's for 100's of passes in the 10's but I libertized them. Also if your not powershifting your not beating on the trans your just granny shifting it and not taxing it there for the guy with the same car has just went by you. In a street car granny shifting it, it will last along time.

 

[blwnbyu]

Please stop with the thought of me personally attacking you. I was just throwing more stuff out there. Would you or others here rather see LESS stuff or MORE? Simple ?. I have NEVER told you to do it this way or else. I was just trying to help a brother out with some info. If thats wrong I will gladly stay out of your posts.
One other ? are the V6 manual LS's hyd or cable clutch? If they are hyd then you just run the stock Ford hyd throwout bearing after you get the stock hyd pedal stuff out of V6. This is the one off the 3650.

Also this trans out of a stang one year newer is the "short" style where the shifter bolts on to back of trans tubular and you can really easy move the shifter front to back.
And yes the trans capacity was of concern to me(but that means nothing to some). You are 1000lbs heavier (3000 vs 4000)and 225HP Vs 280HP. I don't know your personal experience with T5's so I just wanted to add some to the post that's all.

What is with your personal vendetta against T5's?

You may hate them.. But that has nothing to do with the OP.

I WISH my mustang weighed 3000 pounds.... And my LS sure as hell doesn't way 4000....


And why the hell would someone be powershifting an LS anyway??

My little old piece of ****, guaranteed to break if you make more than 300 ft/lbs of torque has been holding more than 500 ft/lbs of torque for 7+ years on top of the 11 years it held the stock Cobra motor as well..

Give it up.. Op wants to use a T5....argue2

 

[Right on the Mark]

You didn't highlight the other one joe

Cuz I type so fast. LOL Kinda like my Mk8 thats so much faster then all the LS's here. OHHHH no he didn't go there. (<- look the right there!) Talk to the hand. LOL

 

[Right on the Mark]

What is with your personal vendetta against T5's?

You may hate them.. But that has nothing to do with the OP.

I WISH my mustang weighed 3000 pounds.... And my LS sure as hell doesn't way 4000....


And why the hell would someone be powershifting an LS anyway??

My little old piece of ****, guaranteed to break if you make more than 300 ft/lbs of torque has been holding more than 500 ft/lbs of torque for 7+ years on top of the 11 years it held the stock Cobra motor as well..

Give it up.. Op wants to use a T5....argue2

Again since some people here cannot read and understand I will speak slowly for you. I have ran the T5 for years and its a great trans for what it is. Something for thought, does Ford put any T5's behind anything V8 300hp ish?Why do you think that is?I have also never TOLD the OP to do it this way or else. Now do I rank on you for spelling weigh, way? NO. How much does a LS weigh? I thought it had to be close to 4000 lb Mk8.

 

[Right on the Mark]

BTW I can't wait to see this done. Dwiggy does real nice work. Mostly with the wiring part which I stink at and hate doing.

 

[blwnbyu]

Cuz I type so fast. LOL Kinda like my Mk8 thats so much faster then all the LS's here. OHHHH no he didn't go there. (<- look the right there!) Talk to the hand. LOL

Who races an LS? Mark VIII's will always be an abomination.

Again since some people here cannot read and understand I will speak slowly for you. I have ran the T5 for years and its a great trans for what it is. Something for thought, does Ford put any T5's behind anything V8 300hp ish?Why do you think that is?I have also never TOLD the OP to do it this way or else. Now do I rank on you for spelling weigh, way? NO. How much does a LS weigh? I thought it had to be close to 4000 lb Mk8.

95 Cobra R's had 300 Horse, 365 Torque, and was a factory built RACECAR that came with a T5......

Just like anything else, after 95, they quit making T5's and went with the 45, which was NOT an upgrade..

LS is supposed to weigh 3650, less than a new Mustang.

I could see you arguing a T-56 or a 6060, but the 3650 is a **** transmission as well as not having a removable bell housing, which makes the T-5 a logical choice here..

Regardless, ANY of the V8 manuals Ford used will work GREAT swapped into an LS.

Most people are smart enough not to think an LS is a racecar. You must have come from the MK8 side, which is understandable why you think people still want to hotrod Lincolns

 

[Right on the Mark]

Yep I own the fastest "stock" N/A Mk8 and also a LS. I do race my MK8 HARD. My LS is a V6 so its not a race car. Also I dare you to go over to the MK8 side and say those things you say about them.

 

[dwiggy]

Please stop with the thought of me personally attacking you.

I took offense to the comment about not doing it right the first time. I believe that most people defend their actions in a similar way.

It’s not personal. It’s information.

Please don't leave. You have a lot of good information.

Your comments about the weight considerations are well taken and that is why I have considered at least going from the 3.27:1 first gear to the 2.95:1 in my T5.
I must confess that my combo is still safer than some of the factory Ford combinations in the past.
The stock Lincoln LS Getrag in the v6 could only handle the exact amount of torque that the engine made. I went through two of these in my old LS. Those cars would ruin main shaft bearings and they were non-servicable.

One other ? are the V6 manual LS's hyd or cable clutch? If they are hyd then you just run the stock Ford hyd throwout bearing after you get the stock hyd pedal stuff out of V6. This is the one off the 3650.

The stock LS V6 was a hydraulic clutch. Unfortunately, because these cars are relatively rare it is virtually impossible to find the parts.
The Slave Cylinder picture that you attached is exactly the same for all 2005 -2008 V8 and V6 cars. These clutches are hard to bleed but they work well.