Kenworth W900 with a Caterpillar 3406 engine.
Manual Transmission drivers - help!
- Thread starter TerryinNC
- Start date
Kenworth W900 with a Caterpillar 3406 engine.
I'm inclined to agree the problem my car was exhibiting was a result of the programming (tables), even though we were 10+ years into computer controls and that would be a little surprising. Maybe the manual transmissions were such low volume they didn't make the priority debug lists? Or maybe they were developed for a higher torque engine? Or a lighter car? Or...? In any case, the car is performing now as it did when I got it at 5K miles 8 years ago - not perfect as you describe, but driveable. The lingering irritation is I don't know which of the things I corrected was the culprit. So all I can recommend to other readers is to take a stab at a solution, clear the KAM; take a stab, clear the KAM;... That's the way I'll approach it next time before I spend several hundred $ in parts.
pragmatic
Dedicated LVC Member
The manual LS did not sell because they were V6 only and you could not find them and dealers would not order them. I searched for a new LS in 2002 (or G35 that was not optioned up). None of the dealers was interested in ordering car so I ended up buying a used one in 2003.
Offering the MTX with the smallest motor is typical Ford. When they offered a MTX with the Taurus it came with an ancient 4 cylinder, until the SHO. Then the SHO was offered with a lousy shifter. I had a friend who after test driving the SHO said the reason sales were so low was it was a crappy MTX (he had a MTX T-bird SC at the time).
I'm very disappointed the Chevy SS is auto only. If GM, Ford or Mopar would get their act together and offer a 4 door RWD with MTX (the ATS is a little too small and too expensive) at a reasonable price I'd be replacing the LS.
Offering the MTX with the smallest motor is typical Ford. When they offered a MTX with the Taurus it came with an ancient 4 cylinder, until the SHO. Then the SHO was offered with a lousy shifter. I had a friend who after test driving the SHO said the reason sales were so low was it was a crappy MTX (he had a MTX T-bird SC at the time).
I'm very disappointed the Chevy SS is auto only. If GM, Ford or Mopar would get their act together and offer a 4 door RWD with MTX (the ATS is a little too small and too expensive) at a reasonable price I'd be replacing the LS.
Telco
Dedicated LVC Member
I was pretty disappointed with the new SS as well. They didn't use any of the fuel saving tech they are putting into all their other V8s for this car, resulting in the car having a gas guzzler tax. The car actually gets worse mileage than a freakin' pickup truck. I'm hoping that by the time I find employment again that they'll have that problem fixed. Otherwise I don't know what I'll do for an LS replacement. Probably pick up a Camry or something until I can build a suitable car. Won't like the FWD, but at least I'll have a car I can find parts for.
Or, once the SS is out and people start playing with them, I can find out exactly what computer architecture they are using. If it's the same as they are using on the pickups then the SS will be a possibility because the computer can be reflashed to operate a different engine. With that, a Corvette engine can be installed with the fuel saving tech the SS isn't getting. If that tech can get 19-22MPG out of a pickup, and almost 40 out of the new Corvette, should be good for at least 30MPG out of the SS along with excellent power. Any 4th Gen F-body with a manual should work as a donor.
That would also mean that there would be the option of a manual trans in an SS, if you don't mind doing a bit of console modification work and figuring out the brake and clutch pedals. The Corvette comes with a manual, which means the computer can be flashed with the Corvette program. GM manual transmissions are usually smaller than their automatics, so a 6 speed manual should physically fit with no problems.
Or, once the SS is out and people start playing with them, I can find out exactly what computer architecture they are using. If it's the same as they are using on the pickups then the SS will be a possibility because the computer can be reflashed to operate a different engine. With that, a Corvette engine can be installed with the fuel saving tech the SS isn't getting. If that tech can get 19-22MPG out of a pickup, and almost 40 out of the new Corvette, should be good for at least 30MPG out of the SS along with excellent power. Any 4th Gen F-body with a manual should work as a donor.
That would also mean that there would be the option of a manual trans in an SS, if you don't mind doing a bit of console modification work and figuring out the brake and clutch pedals. The Corvette comes with a manual, which means the computer can be flashed with the Corvette program. GM manual transmissions are usually smaller than their automatics, so a 6 speed manual should physically fit with no problems.
The reason manufacturers don't produce MTX "family" cars is no one buys them. My dealer told me MTX LSes sat over 90 days on the lot. There are too few buyers available to make all the testing and certifications cost effective. Sadly(?), with the advent SMG and other advanced automatics, the days of the MTX may very well be over.
LSinYourLS
Active LVC Member
So here's a question, how many of us on this Forum have the MTX?
pragmatic
Dedicated LVC Member
As I said no one buys them because Ford keeps making them with the small engine. Not that they would ever be big sellers but at least give them a chance by making correctly optioning the car.
Well they sell more automatic Mustangs than manuals........ BMW sells more automatics than manuals.....
Face it, the American public wants less and less to be drivers and more and more to be passive operators; "we" are getting lazier and lazier when it comes to "driving". Just look at all the electronic gizmos the public seems to crave that removes any driving skill.
joegr
Dedicated LVC Member
I have the opposite cause and effect view.
I think that driving skills were/have gone away before the gizmos. I think that the gizmos are a response to the general lack of skill, instead of the lack of skill being a response to the gizmos.
True..... I made my point poorly and you made it better. Degrading skills have caused the "need" for such devices.
pragmatic
Dedicated LVC Member
So what, its not a popularity contest, its about offering a product mix that not only gets you customers but creates a buzz. Yes Mustangs sell more automatics (61% to 39% in 2012). They also sell more V6s (63% V6; 27% 5.0 V-8; 4.5% 5.0 HO-V8 and 5.5% 5.4L SC V8) and no one is suggesting axing the V8. Why do they even bother with the SC 5.4, sales were around 4,000 units or the Boss with less than 3200 units? Because the availability both the GT500 and the Boss increases sales of the base V6 and V8 car. Its all part of marketing the car. I'm sure BMW would love to can the MTX however they risk losing their market credibility and opening an opportunity for someone to steal some of their most loyal customers.
The real change that would allow more availability (not necessarily more sales) of MTX would be a quicker delivery system with a change of dealer mindset to make it easier to order a car rather than take what is on the lot. Try talking a dealer into ordering a car (after it has been on the market for over a year). I've had them tell me they could not give a delivery time (estimate of 8 - 12 weeks but no guarantees of even that) and that I'd be responsible for any price increases between order and delivery. Some even wanted me to order, give a deposit and tell me I'd find out the final price when they took delivery.
It actually is a popularity contest. Manufacturers are only in business to make money and they pay beaucoup dollars to focus groups to see what sells. If that means there is little interest in manuals then they won't pay the very high cost of development and NHTSA certification. Believe it or not, the V6 and V8 versions of any car are tested separately costing millions. Did I want a manual LS? ABSOLUTELY!! Am I glad they sold the last one 10 days before I bought mine? ABSOLUTELY!!! There is nothing enjoyable about driving a manual in stop-and-slow traffic!
With the LS you're forgetting the target buyer. It wasn't the demographic that can afford them now, it was the 5-Series buyer. The LS was Lincoln's attempt to break into that market. It failed for a variety of reasons; dealers being one of the biggest. As the FWD appliance MKZ has outsold the LS it appears Lincoln's focus groups were right. Don't get me wrong, unless Lincoln offers a true successor to the LS I have purchased my last Lincoln and will be forced to go foreign.
+1
pragmatic
Dedicated LVC Member
Maybe for you, but 30 years of driving in NYC, I find MTX less annoying in traffic than autos.
TerryinNC, can you clear the memory yourself or is that a dealer thing? I have a 2000 MTX and have a bucking as you describe. I got a ScanGuage to try and diagnose and believe the ignition advance is dropping to zero momentarily causing the bucking problem. I have tried many things to no avail (coils,plugs,sensors) but nothing has worked so far. The strange thing about my issue is that it only happens below 35 degrees and with some kind of precipitation (rain,snow,road spray). Sometimes it happens once on my way to work and other times it happens every 5 seconds, it's maddening not to be able to track it down. Any advice would be much appreciated. thanks
Sorry for the long delay. I've been distracted reinvigorating a 72 year old train set for a grand children visit.
Your symptoms are exactly as mine. Mine first happened in the snow in Western Pa., although it has always been a little fussy first thing in the morning - lugs easily at low rpm. Problem is it continues to get worse. I finally lost patience and opened the hood when I became concerned it was damaging the drive train.
I've posted most of what I did on this board which I expect you've read and sympathisized with. I also noticed the strong corellation you found with the advance dropping to 0. I believe there's a crossover point in the operating control that is not properly temperature managed, but have no idea which one. The very sophisticated management algorithm is reduced to some granular tables of fuel and spark set points and I think they missed one in the mtx ECU. We must be able to get into a range they outlaw in the automatic. And as the engine loses tune the temporary tables keep driving us further in.
So much for the philosophizing. Clearing the fault codes does not clear the CAM. My cheap OBD reader does not have that command. But I understand disconnecting the battery for n minutes does. There are several people on this forum who can verify that - just post. You should also search for "drive cycle" and execute that shortly after the reset. Prior to doing that I kept getting codes on my reader that said 'drive cycle not complete' although it's been more than a year since I messed with the battery. Again I don't know what that means to the ECU (learning rate?) nor whether it has any bearing on the bucking problem. BUT, after all this mucking about in the dark, my car is OK. And I wish you the same good luck.