Mark VII - Check engine problems... Others...

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Sysx

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'89 Mark VII non-LSC.

Well, first off, I've stalked the site for almost a year now with the findings of some fine information... So... Thanks...

I have a few problems... Here goes:

- As of recent my Check Engine light flashes every three seconds when I shift into 3rd gear and continue in third gear for the first five seconds fo the gear and then goes away. My first guess is has something to do with how cold it is... As I honestly do not really let the car warm up before driving... Any thoughts on what it may be? If you need more detail, please, let me know.

- Second, my suspension in the rear of the car drops down pretty much all of the way when rested for about a period of eight hours... The front stays up. I have to thus wait for the back to raise and then it will stay up when I drive... It's really annoying and I have no clue what is wrong.

- Third, my car just plain out stalls when I put it into park... If it is in any gear, but park it is fine, but as soon as I shift into park it just goes dead... Now, I must say that it will stay started and not stall when I start the car, BUT the engine struggles to stay on... Forgive me for being an idiot when it comes to cars, but in a childish way it sounds sort of like, "URRGGHHHH... Urrr... URRGGHHHH... Urr..." And that just continues on until it either a.) Shifts into gear, or B.) Stalls...

A due note if it even matters... Since I've owned it I have indeed noticed a decrease in performance in the acceleration... I mean, c'mon... V8... I've replaced the break lines and just recently replaced the spark plugs and wires myself. (All lubes, etc. were used.)

Help... I'm lost... And as this is my only car it is well needed...

-Jason R. Bush
 
you'll get some great feed back from the guys. i myself unfortunatly am not a expert on the vehicles but i do know a little. as far as your rear end dropping down after a period of time that would be your air springs. every thing i have read on the air springs say that they pretty much need to be changed after 100,000 miles, so basically the old ones gotta go. i dont know how good you are with tools but me personally i have only been working on my car for about the past year or so and was able to follow the basic directions and get the old ones off my car. i just got the new ones in the mail and they should be on later today. cost wise i spent 200.00 for two new air springs and two new solenoids. i'm pretty cheap so i forced myself to do the work myself. i was however one bolt away from not being able to complete the job so it is a risk if its your only car, luckly i have two cars. anyway hope this helps a bit and you'l get a ton more feedback on this subject.
 
Oh?

Well, thank you for the reply anyhow. ;)

I thought just replacing the suspension would be a good thing and likely solve the problem, but then again knowing as much as I know about Mark VIIs tis' better to not fix what ain't broke... If it isn't.

To ask as I have not "search" searched, but isn't there a conversion from air shocks to normal shocks/struts?

-Jason R. Bush

Edit: I see no area to edit the above post once replied to, but if needed to further help you guys I can take video and host it for you to view. Let me know.

Edit 2: The $200 you spent... Is that for all four or just a pair?
 
You'vegot a series of problems here. With a little patience and perserverance, you'll be OK. For the light, you should get a $30 code scanner and you will be able to find the fault code and what needs to be done to correct it after you look up the code. It should also pick up the possible causes for the stalling issue. Right now, it might be as simple as a dirty GR spacer, EVR filter, and throttle body or maybe the throttle position sensor.

For the air suspension, you probably have 1 or more leaking air springs. To prove this, shut off the air suspension via the trunk switch. Drive the car around and if it sinks, youve proved that there is a leak and it is not electronically related. You more than likely need to replace one or both the springs. If you have an LSC and wish to keep the slightly stiffer spring rate, only Ford has new springs ($150-$170 each or so) for the LSC. Bagmaster in TX has rebuilt ones too an are the only source for reman LSC springs as far as I know. If you don't mind softer springs, have a non LSC, or just wish to save a little money, a place like Arnott will have generic springs that are very similar to base or designer series springs. Try the test out and report back. Try to note which corner sinks first. It's suggested to replace springs in axle pairs as they tend to wear approximately the same, but I have gotten an extra year out of one of my 19 year old springs. Your results may vary. We can walk you through the spring change once if you go that route. Excluding rusted bolts, it should take you about 1-2 hours to do both with nothing more than a screwdriver, socket set, and some silicone dielectric grease.

I always suggest to fix the system rather than to replace it as it is harder to reengineer something so complex and expect it to be as good. As seemingly troublesome or complex as the system is, it isn't. It's basic and pretty reliable, good enough to last 10 years/100k miles on average for the wear parts and much longer for the non wear parts. An average high schooler with some hand tools could maintain it indefinitely. I'm sure MarkedMan would agree that the maintenance was simple, but perhaps made difficult with a stuck bolt. I have heard good and bad about the kits so the results seem questionable. I will only add that the car wasn't designed for springs and the spring perches differ from coil sprung cars. Agood conversion will involve welding in new spring perches as well as the use of suspension parts from Thunderbirds or Cougars, much more than ever included in any kit.
 
Fix the air spring suspension! In the long run, it will cost more to properly convert the suspension to metal springs vs fix the air spring suspension. If you have some time, click on the diagnostic check below.

http://www.bagmasterair.com/84-diagnostic.html

You most likely have 1 or 2 leaking rear air springs. Do you have access to a lift, turn the air suspension switch in the trunk off, the raise the car up. Closely inspect the bottoms of the air springs. Do you see small cracks around the bottom areas? Are these the original air springs? Chances are good the rear air springs are leaking out. Do what Nick said to test them.

As far as the engine concerns, either buy a code reader and hook it up per the instructions or pay someone to scan for codes. Find out what those codes are and post here if you need further direction.

Lets find out what the codes are before that stalling problem is addressed.
 
Howdy mate....
Well, with your CE light, I'd say it's probably a component that is easily purchased and replaced once you know what it is. The problem that kicks the light in 3rd could easily be the same one that wants to stall you. ;)
As mentioned, defininately get a cheap code reader and plug it up...
BUT first... as I will always suggest, go to an auto parts store and buy a Haynes manual for your car. It'll tell you a lot. Even how to check codes. And will give a list of them and what they mean.

Yes, the suspension is easily fixed with a bit of patience. You should only refine it to coil springs if you're really serious about keeping the car for many, many years and want several less maintenence potentials. I'd say don't even consider it. The guys above are quite correct and gave some great advice!

Good luck... .let us know what your code finder.. ."finds" .. lol
 
1) Buy a code reader, pull codes, report back to us and we will point you in the right direction.

2) You have a leaking bag or two. Buy two new bags, spend 20 minutes swaping them out, never worry about the rear end of your suspension for the next 10 years. Bags at www.arnottindustries.com and www.strutmasters.com are about $80 each.

3) Buy a code reader, pull codes, report back to us and we will point you in the right direction. It sounds like one or more of a few common problems causing this, most likely a bad TPS or dirty EGR/IAC. With codes we can figure it out better. If you want to "band-aid" the system for now increase the idle screw on the throttle body to bring the idle to a higher RPM, which should prevent the stalling.
 
Sysx said:
Well, thank you for the reply anyhow. ;)

I thought just replacing the suspension would be a good thing and likely solve the problem, but then again knowing as much as I know about Mark VIIs tis' better to not fix what ain't broke... If it isn't.

To ask as I have not "search" searched, but isn't there a conversion from air shocks to normal shocks/struts?

-Jason R. Bush

Edit: I see no area to edit the above post once replied to, but if needed to further help you guys I can take video and host it for you to view. Let me know.

Edit 2: The $200 you spent... Is that for all four or just a pair?
Click to expand...


that was for just the pair for the rear.
 
Reporting back.

Greetings all.

1st off, thank you for the help you've provided thus far and continue to provide.

Well, here are thee results going off the advice given:

- I started the car this morning and let the suspension fully elevate. After that I switched off the air suspension switch in the trunk. Deciding that gas was in order as well I drove off to find some and test it out. Sure enough, with the "Check Suspension" light illuminated now, the suspension sunk down considerably in my five minute drive. Thinking that proved the point I switched the switch back on and reelevated. Bad rear suspension?

- I walked into Autozone with all impressions of picking up a reader... At the last second the elady asked if all I was doing was going to just use it... Long story short, they got the codes for me and saved me approx. $40. The best thing was is that I now have a print-out of what the bad code means and what parts may or may not be needed to fix it! Here are the actual codes received from the reader:

11 - 13 - 1

To save everyone some time from looking them up, the 11 code seems to be a PASS on my electrical system test and all is good there... So, I suppose, for our purposes, we will ignore it.

The 13 code is the problem code and instead of typing out what it means, let me know. I do have the print-out of the step-by-step of what to check and etc., but do not have a clue as to where to look.

The 1 code wasn't on her list so I have no clue what it means, if anything at all.

Well...? Thoughts?

-Jason R. Bush

P.s. I bought a Hanes manual for all of the cars I've ever owned.
 
The Haynes manual for these cars are a joke. I wouldn't even buy one. A Helms manual issued by Ford will be THE service manual. You can get used ones on eBay or new ones from Helms.

You do have one or two leaking springs. You should look to get one from the above mentioned companies or a Ford parts dealer like Fordpartsnetwork.com.
 
Sysx said:
Greetings all.


11 - 13 - 1

The 13 code is the problem code and instead of typing out what it means, let me know. I do have the print-out of the step-by-step of what to check and etc., but do not have a clue as to where to look.

The 1 code wasn't on her list so I have no clue what it means, if anything at all.

Well...? Thoughts?
Click to expand...

Jason, check out Oldschool's trouble codes tech article.

http://www.lscclub.org/tech/EEC IV codes.htm

I'm not quite sure what that single "1" means.
 
There is no such thing as a code 1. Also, there should not be a code 11 if other codes are present. It seems that something is amiss. I recommend buying your own code reader for this purpose, so that we can be certain that the codes are correct. Did you perform a KOEO or a KOER scan? I need to know this to further assist you.

And yes, your air spring(s) leak.
 
Codes.

Well, I watched the codes being pulled and those wee the codes that popped up... Three timees in a row. As far as what typ of test it was, I do not know.

-Jason

Edit: I deciphered your acronyms... It was a KOEO (Key on, engine off.) test.
 
Sysx said:
Well, I watched the codes being pulled and those wee the codes that popped up... Three timees in a row.
Click to expand...

Perhaps it was a different style of code reader, as typically it is a series of flashes/tones that must be counted to get the code. Regardless, the code is more likely to be 111, then 31, as 111 is the "system pass" code for this application and it is not possible that your computer gave a code 1. A code 31 is EGR related. I would recommend cleaning it and the IAC first. If this does not clear the code, a new EGR is in order. That should solve your idling problems.

Sysx said:
Edit: I deciphered your acronyms... It was a KOEO (Key on, engine off.) test.
Click to expand...

You deciphered FORD's acronyms. ;)
 
Acronyms.

Anyone wanna tell me what "EGR" and "IAC" stand for...? Like I said, I'm far from a car guy... So, a little help? ;)

Put me in front of a computer and I'm fine... Put me near a car and you're talking gibberish.

-Jason
 
(I hate double posting, but there's no edit button...)

Should be edit:

My roommate was out :q:q:q:qing around with his car, so he helped me with a temporary fix. We set the idle just a wee bit higher so that she doesn't just stall when in park or etc. and I have to say... No problems as of yet. Like I said, what matters is that she gets me to and from work... So, while this is a temporary only fix I will work on a real solution.

The only concern I have at this point is whether or not fixing this code error, whether it IS a code 13 or not is something that I myself can handle. My friend was pointing out all thee vaccuum lines and in a way... I was intimidated. Not just because of where they go or where they are "hidden", but more-so, what each part is exactly.

Taking a look at this receipt from Autozone, for example, the part "Engine Control Computer"... The book I have is so vague I have no clue where it is. lol

Call me an idiot if you must, but that is why I wanted to come to the experts. :)

-Jason
 
Sysx said:
We set the idle just a wee bit higher so that she doesn't just stall when in park or etc. and I have to say... No problems as of yet. Like I said, what matters is that she gets me to and from work... So, while this is a temporary only fix I will work on a real solution.
Click to expand...

I am glad that works like I suggested. I am even more pleased to hear that you accept this as a fix only for the time being and that you want to get to the root of the problem; this is key!

Sysx said:
The only concern I have at this point is whether or not fixing this code error, whether it IS a code 13 or not is something that I myself can handle. My friend was pointing out all thee vaccuum lines and in a way... I was intimidated. Not just because of where they go or where they are "hidden", but more-so, what each part is exactly.
Click to expand...

It just takes time. Everyone is intimidated at some point by the depth of their vehicle. As long as you want to learn it, you can. We can walk you through it too.

Sysx said:
Taking a look at this receipt from Autozone, for example, the part "Engine Control Computer"... The book I have is so vague I have no clue where it is. lol
Click to expand...

You should invest in a Ford Service Manual. They are specific to each model and each year. Check E-Bay if you don't want to spend the $50+ for one new from Helms. They are very indepth and have excellent walk-throughs for troubleshooting.

Sysx said:
Call me an idiot if you must, but that is why I wanted to come to the experts. :)
Click to expand...

Idiot you are not. New and unknowing you are. Keep at it and you will soon find yourself shifting to the "expert" column.

Here are a few places to start, which will help you become more acustom to your system and more familiar with your engine compartment.

http://www.lincolnsonline.com/article23.html
http://www.lincolnsonline.com/article17.html

These may not fix your specific problem, but they are a good start. I still suspect the EGR, but do these steps first to make sure. Keep at it, you'll have a smooth ride in no time. ;)
 
Wee bit of an update my friends.

It's 6:41P.M. and I have done the cleaning mentioned in the links above. To be honest, stuff like that was simple and those instructions were extremely understandable. I did notice that the Check Engine light still did come on this morning while going to work, but that was to be expected. Heh.

Tomorrow I will go to work and hope that these few things helped.

-Jason R. Bush
 
Idiot you are not. New and unknowing you are. Keep at it and you will soon find yourself shifting to the "expert" column.


got a little Yoda talk goin on there Josh. :)
 
MARKED MAN said:
Idiot you are not. New and unknowing you are. Keep at it and you will soon find yourself shifting to the "expert" column.


got a little Yoda talk goin on there Josh. :)
Click to expand...

:cool:
 
Haven't gotten the chance to really check it out, but the Check Engine Light comes on more and more everyday... Goes away when I let go of the gas when it comes on and "re-press" the gas pedal.

A friend of mine mentioned that it may be because oxygen is getting in somewhere... Call me clueless on that one.

This weekend I will be changing the fuel filter.

Oh, and question: I see on this receipt thing I have is that the cost of one of the parts is $122.00, but has a $90 core. Does that mean essentially that the part costs, roughly, $30?

Thanks.

-Jason.
 
A core charge exists on the same principle for bottle returns: an incentive to get raw material back. They will charge a core return fee on top of the price for a replacement part. When they get your old part back, that core return fee will be funded, just like the knickel for a soda can.
 
If you replace your rear air springs, the lead cause of failure is the swaybar mount rusting/bending over time - it is VERY close to the bad and once it bends, it rubs on the bag and pops it - so hammer them away from the new bags if this is the case.

Your CEL is from the EGR most likely, clean it out and lube it up

Your stalling is from the IAC most likely, clean it out and lube it up.
 
Update!

Well guys, here comes an update...

- Bought my own reader and did my own diagnostics. Glad I did not do anything... That chick was doing it wrong. My code is "31". Reading back on that from links it's: "EGR Valve Position/Pressure Feedback EGR Circuit Below Minimum Voltage". Any help on what that means or fixing it?

- Flushed all of my fluids for this coming winter except anti-freeze. I'll be doing that next weekend. K&N Oil Filter for da' win!

A question if I may:

- How much oil should be put in my car when completely drained? (1989 Mark VII, not LSC.) I put 5...

Thanks.
 
I told you it was code 31. ;) I would suggest cleaning the EGR. The unit may be faulty, and if that is the case you will want to replace it. Better to do the free first, though.

5 quarts is the proper fill with a new filter.
 
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