Meth Injection

htrdlincoln98

htrdlincoln98

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I was looking for some info on meth injection with N/A set up. Anyone have any experience with this. The only people I see using it are boosted engines, it looks like it may be a somewhat cheap boost for an N/A mark. I'm looking to use it first only n/a then move it into my spray tunes. So for it looks like I would be able to run a more lean afr and most importantly advance the timing some. Thats more of the info I was looking for. How much more timing and average hp gains that would result. I guess data logging would be the key with the timing. The two types I've seen are progressive that activate off the maf or vacuum. I'm just kickin it around right now but looking for a little different set up for next season. I didn't see any post that covered this yet.
 
I've studied the same but haven't found much relevant info other than that provided by manufacturers. I do think there are gains to be had but it would be hard to quantify how much. You can get into an argument about the cost effectiveness for such but that never bothered me.

Theoretically there are gains to be had from the A/F mixture and timing but I would definitely run a redundant safety cutout if you run a hotter tune with the meth kit.
 
When it comes to NA applications we generally only use it or suggest it to solve detonation issues customers are having. Think of it as octane on demand. A tool used to prevent detonation. We generally steer customer away from it who do not have any issues with detonation or haven't had to severely alter their timing to run their engine. It's important to know where your engine makes it peak power. For many customers advancing the timing isn't going to gain them much to begin with.

Hope this helps.

Rodney.

PS. If you have any other question email me at rodney@alcoholinjectionsystems.com
 
I talked with another guy running it on his mark. Not only is there a little hp gains do to the timing, the engine runs cooler. I know the straight alcy racers run very cool on the top end parts. This could be very helpful in bracket races while staying n/a. I have also read the manufactures stuff and spoke with snow tech, They say 5-10% n/a potential. However on the spray its even more Due the timing issues on the spray. Cost effective well not of go as spray but what is! Around 500 for a maf kit with progressive controler, not too bad if it adds 20-30 real hp's.

I'm going to give this a real hard look tuning is going to be the key. So a better tuners also going to be in order.
 
I'm running a complete separate CH3OH delivery system with the spray equipment in my Maxton E/FCC record holder. There's a fair bit of info in 'Land Speed LS' in the performance section. You can email me at ben@bensplace.us if you have further questions.
KS
 
If I was to go to the next pulley change then I would get the kit, but still content. I have seen some impressive numbers from some of the setups Lidio has put together and tuned that are on meth.
 
i have considered it as well...it will prob be my next step if i want to run over 13#'s
 
Roadboss said:
If I was to go to the next pulley change then I would get the kit, but still content. I have seen some impressive numbers from some of the setups Lidio has put together and tuned that are on meth.
Click to expand...

What are the real world gains from a meth setup
Can this be added to a stock vehicle and see any real gains to it? it seems for the 400 investiment it could be a logical choice unless the cost of meth is really expensive.

Any thoughts on this as well as cost of replacement for the meth..

Thanks in advance
Bill
 
You are talking about adding Washer Fluid, so replacement costs are nil on a per gallon basis, just depends how often you lean on it. This isn't that other stuff !!!
 
Roadboss said:
You are talking about adding Washer Fluid, so replacement costs are nil on a per gallon basis, just depends how often you lean on it. This isn't that other stuff !!!
Click to expand...

Well after reading the manufacturers info, it show an increase but is it really worth it? how much would I get for a stock setup?
Take into consideration I have exhaust and chip already in will this make a few more ponies as it sits? and is there any downside to doing this power adder?:eek:
 
96_Lincoln_LSC said:
Well after reading the manufacturers info, it show an increase but is it really worth it? how much would I get for a stock setup?
Take into consideration I have exhaust and chip already in will this make a few more ponies as it sits? and is there any downside to doing this power adder?:eek:
Click to expand...


If your running a stock engine, I would run a 50-75 shot of nitrous. The meth system is more of a cooling system than power. Nitrous will be adding more oxygen AND cooling the intake temps as well.


Mike
 
I agree the Nitrous shot would be more cost effective on a stock engine. However with the meth you should be able to see some minor gains by adding timing into the tune.
 
94m5 said:
If your running a stock engine, I would run a 50-75 shot of nitrous. The meth system is more of a cooling system than power. Nitrous will be adding more oxygen AND cooling the intake temps as well.


Mike
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htrdlincoln98 said:
I agree the Nitrous shot would be more cost effective on a stock engine. However with the meth you should be able to see some minor gains by adding timing into the tune.
Click to expand...

So both say go this way.... Nitrous is expensive? I have never priced it since I have never run it..

Washerfluid on the other hand seems to be more easily availible.... :) Anyway for the 500 for cooler temps and a boost in performance is that really worth it.. also IS IT Safer for the Motor?
 
Is It worth it. thats why I started this. From what I've read on a n/a engine in stock trim? Not sure if the performance gains(?) are justifiable.
Bill you think the 500 investment isnt too bad for the meth well a basic start up nitrous kit is about the same. Yes washer fluid is eaily found and cheap but less gains will be made. From all I've read there are two positive will this injection
1) cooler air temps: IMO this is not that much of gain with a n/a engine and low CR.
2)Raises octane: This is where the gains can be made. If the pcm is tuned to run with the high octane fuel. It can raise 91 gas to octane ratings close to race fuel.

I'm finding it difficult to justify the expence and returns allown. I need to due some more research on the meth and nitrous. Maybe a second stage with the meth to rerich the fuel needs. Also the water helps to lower the combustion temps very important with cast piston.
 
htrdlincoln98 said:
Is It worth it. thats why I started this. From what I've read on a n/a engine in stock trim? Not sure if the performance gains(?) are justifiable.
Bill you think the 500 investment isnt too bad for the meth well a basic start up nitrous kit is about the same. Yes washer fluid is eaily found and cheap but less gains will be made. From all I've read there are two positive will this injection
1) cooler air temps: IMO this is not that much of gain with a n/a engine and low CR.
2)Raises octane: This is where the gains can be made. If the pcm is tuned to run with the high octane fuel. It can raise 91 gas to octane ratings close to race fuel.

I'm finding it difficult to justify the expence and returns allown. I need to due some more research on the meth and nitrous. Maybe a second stage with the meth to rerich the fuel needs. Also the water helps to lower the combustion temps very important with cast piston.
Click to expand...


I would not mind putting out the 500 for the setup as long as its more suited for the car, I do plan on more mods (got that DAM_N Bug) so later a more drastic mod could be in the works.. Im not really comfortable with Nitro as I use this DD and my family also travels with me... the Meth seems to be much safer, and easier to find.. (Windsheild fluid) If I had to choose, I would invest the 500 in the meth faster then doing the Nitro.... MY opinion.. I may greater gains but the downside is I have a 135K motor and that seems to be a bit rougher on the internals...(Nitrous that is) Has anyone seen a negative to using Meth? burned pistons? and the like? I dont plan on making drastic adjustments.. just enough to eat a few GT's.. :)
 
I see. I have not heard of any reports to damage caused by the meth. Most are using it with boosted engines. If anything the meth is to prevent the melted parts and genaded engines. When used with boost it cools the charge and raises the octane which help fight detonation. Of course these people turn up the power and feed more boost to get the most out of the setup. Which brings the tune back to the edge!
So far I think gears or nitrous would be a better mod for close to the same $.
 
The best combo is a shot of CH3OH AND straight methanol as the fuel. That's the combo I use, and used at Maxton. More info at 'Land Speed LS' in the HP section.
KS
 
cammerfe said:
The best combo is a shot of CH3OH AND straight methanol as the fuel. That's the combo I use, and used at Maxton. More info at 'Land Speed LS' in the HP section.
KS
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So you would run straight meth and no gas. Thats a little different that just using the meth as a suppilment. So you ran the engine on methanol and spray the nitrous and meth mix together. Using the meth injection as the suppliment for the nitrous. How much timming were you running at wot.
 
I'm running a KB boosted forged block and looking to get cooler air temps. My iat's were over 200 on the dyno. I was looking at a 50 shot of nitrous to cool temps or getting a meth set-up. I haven't seen a comparison as far as the cooling factor, any thoughts?
 
I would pick out a tuner that you plan on working with and get into his tent to show you the way. If he can't give you some answers to your questions then find another tuner. If you have read the article then you realize that this stuff isn't just "plug & play" and that you will need some chip flashing, and data logging to have a safe system.
 
htrdlincoln98 said:
So you would run straight meth and no gas. Thats a little different that just using the meth as a suppilment. So you ran the engine on methanol and spray the nitrous and meth mix together. Using the meth injection as the suppliment for the nitrous. How much timming were you running at wot.
Click to expand...

The engine runs the factory fuel arrangement. I also have a complete methanol fuel delivery system based on a 5 gallon fuel cell in the trunk. This is connected only to my NX CH3OH package.
KS
 
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