Need help - running hot - cant bleed correctly?

[joegr]

Actually, come to think of it...
Another rare, but not unheard of, failure is the oil to water cooler (at the oil filter). It's probably where the most copper in the cooling system is at. I'd be tempted to replace it because of the damage that it can do if it fails (coolant in oil can kill bearings quickly, and oil in coolant is a big pain to clean up).

I'd been trying to think of where any noticeable amount of copper in the cooling system could come from, but didn't think of the oil cooler right away...

 

[peter.bucker99]

The engine water pump seems to be pretty reliable and long-lived, however, in your case there is the very slim possibility that a piece of the thermostat made it into the pump and did damage. (The coolant flow is from the pump to the thermostat then to the radiator, but a part could fall backwards from the thermostat directly into the water pump while the engine was off. ) If you remove it to check, you will at least need a need water pump gasket. If you decide to replace it (I would only use Motorcraft), then the gasket comes with the new pump.

Aux pump failures are a little less rare, but not common. Since you have heat at idle, I'd leave the aux pump alone unless you see any residue that would indicate it is leaking.

Thanks joegr! I actually was on the phone with the ford dealer just a minute ago about a water pump gasket. They have one for me.

I'm not a trained mechanic, but i can follow instructions, and I have done extensive research over the last few days regarding overheating in general, and overheating in the LS. I read the whole thread 2x that you posted where people were overhauling their cooling systems.

I've gotten the temp up to 220 while trying to bleed the system. the lower rad hose is barely warm. I'm still not sure if this means the system is functioning properly or not, but I figure it was worth mentioning.

 

[peter.bucker99]

I've tried to bleed the system several times now. It's not quickly overheating. Takes about 15-20 minutes with the heat on max to get to 220. Do you think there would be some coolant in the oil by now if the oil to water cooler has failed?

Theres been no oil in the coolant yet and I've drained the rad 3x now. The coolant is very clean minus the metallic and copper flakes i found in the bottom of the pan.

 

[joegr]

I've tried to bleed the system several times now. It's not quickly overheating...

It would overheat more quickly if you had the heater off. It's helping to cool the engine.

... the lower rad hose is barely warm. I'm still not sure if this means the system is functioning properly or not, but I figure it was worth mentioning.

The lower hose should always be fairly cool. If the lower hose got really hot, it would indicate an airflow problem, such as the fan not running fast enough or dirt blocking air flow. The lower hose is cooled coolant returning to the engine.

The upper hose should get very hot once the engine reaches temperature. If it doesn't, then it indicates a water flow problem (stuck thermostat, bad water pump, trapped air, ...).

...Theres been no oil in the coolant yet and I've drained the rad 3x now. The coolant is very clean minus the metallic and copper flakes i found in the bottom of the pan.

I don't think that your oil-to-water cooler has failed yet. I think that the copper flakes that you see might be the internal cooling fins in the cooler corroding away. If so, eventually the copper separating the coolant from the oil may corrode through as well. That's when you would have oil and coolant mixing. I wonder if your car was run for some time with just plain water or with worn out anti-freeze...

 

[peter.bucker99]

Thanks for the insights!

Its possible that the car was run with old antifreeze before I purchased it at some point. I bought it from a real estate agent that knew absolutely zero about cars. When I whipped out my scan tool in his driveway and started looking at the ball joints he thought I was from mars.

He did have some documentation of services performed on the vehicle. The thermostat was "replaced" in 2013, the parking break module, lower radiator hose, coolant flush and the degas bottle (but I can tell the degas bottle is old just from a top view, and obviously something went really wrong installing the thermostat), and other regular maintenance stuff. I am suspicious that they didnt just rip this guy off.

Now when I bought the car, of course I did a full tune up (new coils too), and coolant flush. replaced coolant with zerex go5. it bled then as well without issue. It ran great for a couple of years until now. So it is possible the previous owner did not change coolant.

Before him the car was repoed so that also tells me the previous owner before the real estate agent likely did not take care of it, since they didnt have the money to pay the loan.

It runs and drives great (minus overheating), I love the car. Just part of buying a used vehicle I suppose.

 

[peter.bucker99]

I had a first gen before this car also. I got lucky with that one. The guy was in the navy and replaced the hydraulic fan and all the ball joints before I got it. I just needed a new ac compressor and a dccv. The old compressor was working but leaking oil. He didn't know about the dccv though. So I have a few years of reading about the LS and messing with minor stuff. So glad you guys are here!!

 

[peter.bucker99]

Here's a pic of some of the metallic flakes I found in the coolant I saved. Its been outside so there's some bugs and stuff in there that did not come out of the radiator. The only thing that came out was coolant, some metallic flakes and very small copper colored flakes. There's not much of the copper and I can't get a good pic of it.

 

[peter.bucker99]

Got the water pump off today. The impellers and everything looks intact but the plastic on it was very brittle and came right off as I pulled it out.. I guess this would have started leaking within the next year or so.

I'm sure this is the stock water pump and with 138k on the clock I can say ford makes a really nice water pump.

 

[peter.bucker99]

Well. Finally got all of the plastic parts replaced. New intake manifold gaskets, new degas, the whole nine yards. When I was in there I noticed that it looks like the cooling system may be contaminated. I'd like to flush the whole system and backflush the heater core, but I'm not sure how to properly do this on the LS. My repair manual just says to use a machine.

Is there any way to flush the system and heater core for DIY?

Thanks so much for everyone's help this far. I believe you guys helped give this car a second chance!

 

[joegr]

When cars were simpler, they made flush kits that had some adapters so that you could use your house water hose to wash out the system. It's more complicated now, and they don't want what you are flushing out to just drain out on the ground, so there are flush machines.
I think that you will have to improvise something on your own here. Whatever you come up with, you have to make sure that you don't have more than 15 PSI of pressure anywhere while you are doing it.

 

[peter.bucker99]

Thanks, I could definitely do that probably with rubber stoppers and my carpet cleaning machine haha

I just want to know the job was done right. I've never had a good experience with taking any vehicle, even a 1998 ford ranger, to any mechanic.

I suppose I could just take the LS to the stealership but I'm not convinced they will do it right.

 

[joegr]

I feel your pain. It seems like I mostly get the D-team anytime I have to hire someone to do something.

 

[peter.bucker99]

I figured out how to flush the heater core with just tubing by removing the hoses that connect to it on the firewall and hooking up the tubes to the heater core, then flushing with water and finally replacing the water with coolant.

I'm still working on the block but I think I can make that happen like any other car. Just drain, fill with water, run for 20-30min (monitor engine temp), and repeat that a few times.

 

[AmsterDutch]

The upper hose should get very hot once the engine reaches temperature. If it doesn't, then it indicates a water flow problem (stuck thermostat, bad water pump, trapped air, ...).

Okay so my upper hose is hot once the engine reaches temp...and the lower hose on radiator is nice and cool ...