Need some help with my rear end.... on the car guys, on the car.

KAIN81

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Super clean, super well maintained (obsessively so). 2003 Lincoln LS V8 110K - regularly maintenanced. Started noticing a high pitched whine/hum coming from the rear end about a week ago. It continues when the car is coasting in neutral and gets louder as the gas pedal is pushed and does not appear when the car is revved in park. This leads me to believe it is something in the rear differential of the car - wondering if anyone here can speak with a little more certainty - and if so, how quickly do I need to act - if it can be done in the garage - I'm handy, not certified but have access to a lift and have swapped out rear ends in cars before - albeit much much older cars....

Any help sent my way would be appreciated.

thanks all.
 
Sounds like a rear wheel bearing. The rear ends are pretty reliable.
 
Yes it looks big in that dress
No it's not the dress than makes it look big


But as LS4me said, sounds like a bearing.
 
I have a 03 as well. I would check the differential fluid just to be safe, mine drips and ran itself low.

Just a question to all you who had bad rear wheel bearings. Was the sound more pronounced when coasting and then disappears when accelerating? or the other way around?
 
My money is on rear wheel bearing. Mine was doing something VERY similar. It was especially noticeable around 50 mph. It was all about rolling speed though, accelerating or cruise or coasting didn't matter. Took someone who knew how to use a mechanics stethoscope to find it. Ended up putting the rear of the car up on jackstands and giving it gas while he probed around.

The crappy part is finding someone to replace it. The dealer won't touch it, but will sell you an $800 knuckle plus labor. The bearing itself is like $10, but putting it in is the problem. The knuckles are aluminum and you need to be careful when pressing on them.

Alternatively, you can probably throw the knuckle into a 250-degree Farenheit oven for an hour and the bearing might just fall out. Try to position the knuckle so that the bearing would fall out under it's own weight. If it doesn't you should be able to gently tap the bearing out without any issue. While the knuckle is still hot, push the new bearing in and then let cool for a few hours. Same process as sleeving an aluminum engine.

If you are married you might want to clean the knuckle REAL WELL and wait till the wife isn't home to bake your cake. Somehow women don't appreciate the ingenuity demonstrated by re-purposing the oven as a shop tool. The dishwasher also makes an excellent final clean parts washer after you have done the rough scrub for the big stuff. :)
 
@Kumba - your response and added humor were both appreciated. I told the wife she was just addressed in the forum and her facial response was post worthy. Regardless, that sounds like an MF'ing headache and a much larger problem than i was hoping. I'll drop it by the dealer just to let them pretend to diagnos it - from there... it looks like i'll be 'baking'.
 
@Kumba - your response and added humor were both appreciated. I told the wife she was just addressed in the forum and her facial response was post worthy. Regardless, that sounds like an MF'ing headache and a much larger problem than i was hoping. I'll drop it by the dealer just to let them pretend to diagnos it - from there... it looks like i'll be 'baking'.

A local shop replaced both side bearings in my wife's '06 with no issues. I don't remember the cost, but the bearings were around $30 apiece.
 
@Kumba - your response and added humor were both appreciated. I told the wife she was just addressed in the forum and her facial response was post worthy. Regardless, that sounds like an MF'ing headache and a much larger problem than i was hoping. I'll drop it by the dealer just to let them pretend to diagnos it - from there... it looks like i'll be 'baking'.

"Good Luck" is all I have to say. I bet they will tell you to get the tires balanced and if (or when) that doesn't fix it try to sell you some. You will probably also hear about bad rims. So how do you prove to them it's not rims? Simple. Take the rear tires off, run some lug nuts down on the rotor so it's all held in place, put the car up on a lift or jack stands, start it up, and slowly accelerate till you get the virbation/hum. This is literally what I had to MAKE my dealer do in order to prove that it couldn't POSSIBLY be the wheels or tires. And no, swapping tires front to back, which would make the out of balance vibration move with the tires, was not a good enough test for them. I had to literally drive the car with no tires before they went "Ohh, well, I guess it wasn't the tires/rims". And such is my dealing with most Ford dealers anymore.

Also, I had the units wrong, that's 250-degrees Celsius, NOT FAHRENHEIT! Most household ovens in the US would need to be set to about 450-F in order to get the metal to expand enough. If you are doing it right the bearings should just pop right out, if not fall out under their own weight. Preheat the oven, then put the knuckle in there for 30 minutes, see if the bearings will pop out, if not, shove it back in for another 30 minutes and check. If they still won't pop out, then stop, let the knuckle cool for a few hours, and take it to a machine shop. You will need a press at this point. If you need to tap the bearing out you should only need a small push. You shouldn't need to beat it loose, but just a tap to pop it out. Make sure you tap evenly around the circumference of the bearing so you don't get it sideways in the bore.

There is also more then one bearing in the knuckle. There's a small needle bearing for the CV shaft, then the big bearing that the hub rides on. Try to clean all the grease out that you can as the baking process will also bake the grease and harden it. Of course the needle bearing is only like $5, might just replace it for the hell of it anyways. The big wheel/hub bearing is like $25. Guess the prices went up since last I looked, or I was looking at the wrong thing.

The big bearing is a double sealed bearing. You will probably want to examine the state of the old bearing when it pops out. if the seals look like they melted then you will want to put the new bearing in the fridge or freezer to protect it when you slide it in the aluminum. You will also want to immediately sit the knuckle in front of a box fan on high to cool it so you don't damage the grease in the bearing or seal. You only have one chance to install the new bearings. Re-heating the knuckle with the new bearings in it isn't an option. So make sure you have everything in place before you start and once that bearing touches the aluminum commit to it. Don't sit there and double guess yourself. Tap it down, spin knuckle around, tap in second bearing, sit in front of fan, done. If you start and the bearing seizes for whatever reason, stop, sit knuckle in front of fan, allow to cool for a few hours, then take to a machine shop. You will have 30-second to maybe a minute before the aluminum cools and siezes on the bearing.

If it all sounds like too much work or hassle, you can just take the knuckle to a reputable machine shop and have them press the bearing in for you. Might only cost you a few bucks and you don't have to worry about it. Some prudent preparation work might help too. See if you can find some metal pipe that matches the bearing race diameters. That way you have something you can use as a punch to tap the bearing in or out. When installing the bearings, only tap on the outer race. When removing the bearings, you can tap anywhere you like. But again, they should more or less push right out when heated.
 
I recorded what I could this morning - you can hear it varying with my pressing and releasing the gas pedal. Does that make sense? The tire is still rotating at 70mph but when I press the petal even slightly the noise get's much louder:
http://youtu.be/b5hwdQzurEw

Also - just to note, I did recently rotate the tires - they are all good tires, I simply had the car up in the air and figured it was a good time to do so...

I guess two more questions - how quickly do I need to act? and is it dangerous as it sits now?

Wife is 9 months pregnant and due any minute, seriously. So I don't have the time just yet to take this rear end apart or drop it off for days at a shop. If i can wait till the kiddo gets here I'll have a few weeks off. Also, might want to add I drive this thing 60 miles a day - it's my daily driver.
 
I recorded what I could this morning - you can hear it varying with my pressing and releasing the gas pedal. Does that make sense? The tire is still rotating at 70mph but when I press the petal even slightly the noise get's much louder:
http://youtu.be/b5hwdQzurEw

Also - just to note, I did recently rotate the tires - they are all good tires, I simply had the car up in the air and figured it was a good time to do so...

I guess two more questions - how quickly do I need to act? and is it dangerous as it sits now?

Wife is 9 months pregnant and due any minute, seriously. So I don't have the time just yet to take this rear end apart or drop it off for days at a shop. If i can wait till the kiddo gets here I'll have a few weeks off. Also, might want to add I drive this thing 60 miles a day - it's my daily driver.

Assuming it is the bearing, could be days or weeks. It just depends how far gone the bearing is. Worst case is the bearing fails and you'll also be replacing more expensive pieces! I had mine done in less than a day; dropped it off at opening (8ish) and it was ready just after lunch. Alldata shows ~3 hours labor to change both rear bearings. Couldn't tell, but does the noise start around 40mph and sound like tire noise? Those were my symptoms.

Oh yea...... CONGRATS on your new bundle of joy!
 
Assuming it is the bearing, could be days or weeks. It just depends how far gone the bearing is. Worst case is the bearing fails and you'll also be replacing more expensive pieces! I had mine done in less than a day; dropped it off at opening (8ish) and it was ready just after lunch. Alldata shows ~3 hours labor to change both rear bearings. Couldn't tell, but does the noise start around 40mph and sound like tire noise? Those were my symptoms.

Oh yea...... CONGRATS on your new bundle of joy!

Yeah, roughly around 35mph + and sounds like it's coming from the back passenger tire. It's a higher pitched whine/hum. I'll see if I can get the car into the dealer soon, but the clock is ticking on my free time!
 
Yeah, roughly around 35mph + and sounds like it's coming from the back passenger tire. It's a higher pitched whine/hum. I'll see if I can get the car into the dealer soon, but the clock is ticking on my free time!

EXACTLY my symptom! The mechanic said the passenger side was perished and the drivers side would follow soon. To save time I just had them both replaced.


I just dug up the receipt. The bearings were just under $60 apiece and labor was $340. Tax and other People's Republik fees had me just over $467 out the door.

BTW, my wife's sister and her husband live in Corona!
 
Dealer just told me they could only get the bearing WITH the knuckle and it would be ... brace yourselves.. $1,100.00 PER SIDE.

I work for a parts distributor and I can get the bearing for $50.00 - Dealership said that I can actually bring in my own parts. Add in roughly $300 or so for labor and I should be down the road for right around $450. I'll keep this updated.
 
Dealer just told me they could only get the bearing WITH the knuckle and it would be ... brace yourselves.. $1,100.00 PER SIDE.

I work for a parts distributor and I can get the bearing for $50.00 - Dealership said that I can actually bring in my own parts. Add in roughly $300 or so for labor and I should be down the road for right around $450. I'll keep this updated.

Yeah, $800 for the knuckle plus $300 in labor = $1100 per side.

You can order the bearing from rockauto.com for $25. Might as well change the needle bearing too since you are in there for another $5 in parts.
 
Hah, my pass rear (2003) went out two yeas ago as well. Must be a defect, or from the crap near the shoulder?

Got a new TIMKEN bearing off RockAuto.com for around $30, pressed in for another $35. Did the rest of the labour myself. New axle nut (must replace this) was also $20 from the dealer.
 
Have an extremely similar noise except its much higher pitched but its my rear end, sounds like a wheel bearing.
 
Found the bearings at Napa for $42 - and their in stock right by my house. Going to drop the LS off at the dealer tomorrow and be sure that is what the problem is - if so, they quoted about 400-450 in labor, plus the $84.00 bucks I'll spend at Napa.

I'll update w/ prognosis tomorrow.
 
First day on the forum..been a watcher for bout a year...Love my LS to the point that only members here can understand..quick question..just replaced rear trailing arms on 00 LS..(upper rear control arms..) ...car is still jumping to the right when a bump it hit...new rear bearings..toe and tie rod bars..wondering if this is the lower control arm on that wheel...please help. Struts were replaced 4 months ago..both wheel bearings..rear sway bar..and links..thinking the lowers are the only option left..burning off tire tread like butter on hot toast..lol Opinions..?? thanks..
 
This is absolutely not true..replaced left rear wheel bearing once..had it pressed in..bearing was about $50..labor was 2 hours ($160)...the right side I had to have replaced 3 times..(2 under warranty...ended up the hub was bad and was not seating the bearing properly..)..but yes..the bearing can definitely be bought separately..mine came from Advance.
 
First day on the forum..been a watcher for bout a year...Love my LS to the point that only members here can understand..quick question..just replaced rear trailing arms on 00 LS..(upper rear control arms..) ...car is still jumping to the right when a bump it hit...new rear bearings..toe and tie rod bars..wondering if this is the lower control arm on that wheel...please help. Struts were replaced 4 months ago..both wheel bearings..rear sway bar..and links..thinking the lowers are the only option left..burning off tire tread like butter on hot toast..lol Opinions..?? thanks..

you 100% sure your rear is aligned properly? I was jumping when my rear wheels where out of wack.
 
Off-topic and semi nerdly of me to bring it up but is Kain your name or a reference to a video game?
 
UPDATE/NEWFLASH/IMPORTANT TITLE INSERT HERE

Lincoln Dealership just called back - said it is NOT the wheel bearing, after test driving and putting it up on the lift -they said it is 100% my rear end. And the number one reason they are sure (besides where the sound is coming from) is that the sound speeds up with the pedal, not the tires. Which is what I thought was weird since the begininng.

Bad news: $400 to take it apart and tell me what needs replacing
They call then and I decide if i can get the parts cheaper through work, or if they can.
Then they charge me $400 to put it back together.

Do I have the skills to do the work? I'd wager a 'more than likely' but i DO NOT have the time. As i mentioned, new house, parents on the way and baby due ANY MINUTE. So looks like I'm screwing the pooch on this one.

Good news? I got it in before I did serious damage and f*cked up my entire rear end....

I need a beer.
 
That is what I was thinking when you said it changed based on the accelerator. My wheel bearing was all about rolling speed of the car, regardless of what the engine was doing.
 

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