Obama and Gates are the real race baiters

lincolnx2 said:
only what the (bias) media has posted. The only people who know what happened are God, the officer, and Gates, everything else is "hearsay"
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At this point, pretty much. Too much speculation going on and assertions of that speculation as fact when it is not verified. Need direct sources...
 
shagdrum said:
Proof?

FYI; speculation on the part of others doesn't count as proof.
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What gives you the right to demand "proof"? So you think you are a judge now? :bowrofl: Besides who was trying to "prove" anything? Get over yourself. Simple process of elimination. Either the cop's ego was bruised and inticed him to act stupidly and make a false arrest, or the cop was just stupid and acted stupidly by making the false arrest. I'll give him the benefit of doubt.

shagdrum said:
It is unclear weather or not the ID presented actually proved that the house was Gates residence.
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Irrelevant, read the arrest report, campus cops collaborated they knew Gates so the cop knew Gates was the resident BEFORE he made the arrest. Exactly how Obama recalled the incident.

shagdrum said:
Besides the fact that Gates very likely didn't provide ID proving that the house was his residence (as was his obligation in that instance), there is also the fact that they had heard that there were possibly 2 people trying to break into the house. If the house was in fact Gates, it would get him out of harms way if there was in fact someone else in the house that Gates was unaware of.
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Oh, OK, so you think that the cop thinks Gates was breaking into his own resident along-side an actual burgler? :bowrofl: You must not have a very high regard for the cop's intellegence.

shagdrum said:
So, it wasn't to MAKE it a race issue, but to defend it AS a race issue after his "friend" Skip had made it a race issue. Either way, Obama was irresponsibly perpetuating a false stereotype that makes the job of every police officer, corrections officer, etc. more dangerous. That is extremely irresponsibly, and the fact that Obama was willing to publicly assume the worse about those cops gives a strong indication where his sympathies lie.
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What false stereotype? Stereotype? Maybe. False? Well that explains alot about you.

Obama made no assumptions. The facts he based his "stupidly" comment on were: A) Cop knew Gates lived at the residence, B) THEN he made the arrest.

shagdrum said:
Calling the cops actions into question then speculating on racial issues is race baiting. He was not directly calling the cops racist, but, was clearly implying that it was very likely when there was no information concerning it. Maybe you should look up what race baiting truly is.
Race baiting is an act of using racially derisive language, actions or other forms of communication, to anger, intimidate or incite a person or groups of people, or to make those persons behave in ways that are inimical to their personal or group interests.

This can also be accomplished by implying that there is an underlying race-based motive in the actions of others towards the group baited, where none in fact exists. The term "race" in this context can be construed very broadly to include the social constructs which define race or racial difference, as well as ethnic, religious, gender and economic differences.

Thus the use of any language or actions perceived to be for the purpose of exploiting weaknesses in persons who can be identified as members of certain groups, or to reinforce a group's perceived victimhood, can be contained within the concept of "race baiting." Many people who practice race baiting often believe in racism, or have an interest in making the group believe that racism is what motivates the actions of others.​

Obama's actions where exceedingly irresponsible because it made the job of every law enforcement officer in the country harder and riskier solely for the purpose of defending Gates' belligerent diatribe and to race-bait.
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How many logical cartwheels did you have to make to write that? :rolleyes: Your strawman doesn't fly. When will you get it through your thick skull, Obama NEVER called or implied the COP was racist, he was explaining Gates' racist reaction.

Wiki? Really? While disregarding Wiki when used by other posters, you fall back on it's buttered-up, all-encompassing definitions. By that definition, any mention of race in a conversation would qualify as "race baiting", no wonder you and the other RWWs here find it impossible to have a constructive discussion about race without resorting to this finger-pointing and flame-baiting. Looks like you need some schooling too, try a real dictionary:

"The making of verbal attacks against members of a racial group"
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Show me the statement Obama made that fits THAT definition.
 
JohnnyBz00LS said:
Simple process of elimination. Either the cop's ego was bruised and inticed him to act stupidly and make a false arrest, or the cop was just stupid and acted stupidly by making the false arrest. I'll give him the benefit of doubt.
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Circular reasoning. You ultimately assume the cop was acting "stupidly" then cite as proof any explanation that also assumes the cop was acting "stupidly".

It is abundantly clear that you are still acting as a troll here. You had said some things in another thread that lead me to believe that maybe you were making an effort to improve, but that was obviously foolishly optimistic. All you have engaged in is dishonest mischaracterizations, ridiculing others who disagree with you, lies and generally petulant tolling behavior. You offer nothing to this debate and only distract from and frustrate any honest discussion on this forum.
Frankly, you should be removed from this forum.
 
lincolnx2 said:
only what the (bias) media has posted. The only people who know what happened are God, the officer, and Gates, everything else is "hearsay"
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And yet you still defend Obama sticking his nose in it? LOL

Too bad Hillary wasn't invited to the White House 'kegger.'

PH2008041301354.jpg
 
I am a believer of handling situations at the lowest levels, this should not have gone past the DA once they dropped the charges.
 
Have you read the police report Foss? I don't know where you were raised, but if yelling at a cop constitutes an arrest, let me know where this place is so I can raise my future family there, because thats a wonderful neighborhood.
 
lincolnx2 said:
Have you read the police report Foss? I don't know where you were raised, but if yelling at a cop constitutes an arrest, let me know where this place is so I can raise my future family there, because thats a wonderful neighborhood.
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So advancing on the cop and saying things about his mama constitutes 'yelling' in your opinion?
 
lincolnx2 said:
I talk crazy to police officers all the time, its part of their job. I remember a few years ago, a cop said "when I come back around, you better be gone" I replied "I will be in your house fu3king your wife" I was within my constitutional right, I am sure I hurt his ego, but there isnt a law against that.
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lincolnx2 said:
Have you read the police report Foss? I don't know where you were raised, but if yelling at a cop constitutes an arrest, let me know where this place is so I can raise my future family there, because thats a wonderful neighborhood.
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:lol: You'd be the first one arrested, along with your big, dumb balls.
 
fossten said:
Please explain to me how Crowley was trespassing.
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I guess you can't provide a link that proves Gates was advancing towards the officer. Ofc. Crowley was on Gates property without being invited, is that not trespassing?
 
Black87LSC said:
:lol: You'd be the first one arrested, along with your big, dumb balls.
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Actually my left ball is considered the big ball, so it should read, along with your big dumb ball. The right one is saved for people who like to play with it.
 
lincolnx2 said:
Ofc. Crowley was on Gates property without being invited, is that not trespassing?
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No, it's not. Look into, among other things, the Open Field doctrine. He was there in pursuit of his official duties, so he was, by definition, not trespassing.
 
I found this very interesting.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/07/30/harvard.arrest.beers/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

Meanwhile, a black Cambridge police sergeant on the scene the day of Gates' arrest wrote a letter to Crowley, asking him to mention to Gates and Obama that he is now known as the "black sergeant" and to some others as an "uncle Tom."

"I'm forced to ponder the notion that as a result of speaking the truth and coming to the defense of a friend and colleague, who just happens to be white, that I have somehow betrayed my heritage," Sgt. Leon Lashley wrote. "Please convey my concerns to the president that Mr. Gates' actions may have caused grave and potentially irreparable harm to the struggle for racial harmony in this country and perhaps throughout the world."

Lashley wrote in the letter he would like Gates to reflect on the incident and ask himself what responsibility he bears, what he can do to heal the rift and what he can do to mitigate the damage done to the officers' reputations.
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"It is incumbent upon Sergeant Crowley and me to utilize the great opportunity that fate has given us to foster greater sympathy among the American public for the daily perils of policing on the one hand, and for the genuine fears of racial profiling on the other hand," Gates said in a statement on his Web site, The Root.

"Let me say that I thank God that (I) live in a country in which police officers put their lives at risk to protect us every day, and, more than ever, I've come to understand and appreciate their daily sacrifices on our behalf. I'm also grateful that we live in a country where freedom of speech is a sacrosanct value and I hope that one day we can get to know each other better, as we began to do at the White House this afternoon over beers with President Obama," he said.

"At this point, I am hopeful that we can all move on, and that this experience will prove an occasion for education, not recrimination. I know that Sergeant Crowley shares this goal. Both of us are eager to go back to work tomorrow."
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It would seem to me Gates is starting to realize he was out of line.
 
lincolnx2 said:
I guess you can't provide a link that proves Gates was advancing towards the officer. Ofc. Crowley was on Gates property without being invited, is that not trespassing?
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Crowley had plenty of probable cause to be on the property; specifically a 911 call alleging a robbery in progress.

also, the property wasn't Gates'. It was (and is) Harvard University property.
 
ford nut said:
It would seem to me Gates is starting to realize he was out of line.
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I would like to agree with you, but everything I have read about or seen of Gates shows him to have a huge ego and a massive racial chip on his shoulder. Frankly, I doubt he is capable of admitting he was out of line to himself, let alone to anyone else. But, I hope I am wrong.
 
fossten said:
Because he's black, clearly. Isn't that your point? :rolleyes:
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I am really starting to believe you just say stuff to get a reaction out of me, it won't work, I have graduated SERE-C school, I don't get upset. THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE!
 
shagdrum said:
Circular reasoning. You ultimately assume the cop was acting "stupidly" then cite as proof any explanation that also assumes the cop was acting "stupidly".

It is abundantly clear that you are still acting as a troll here. You had said some things in another thread that lead me to believe that maybe you were making an effort to improve, but that was obviously foolishly optimistic. All you have engaged in is dishonest mischaracterizations, ridiculing others who disagree with you, lies and generally petulant tolling behavior. You offer nothing to this debate and only distract from and frustrate any honest discussion on this forum.
Frankly, you should be removed from this forum.
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There you go again, pouting because you are incapable of responding to my challenge to point out the exact statement made by Obama that fits the correct and un-inflated definition of "race baiting", thereby disproving 1/2 of the title of this thread. Instead, you start throwing around the "troll card" and resorting to personal attacks when you are backed into the wall and have lost the debate. If anyone was guilty of "dishonest mischaracterizations" and "ridiculing others who disagree with you", it would be YOU. Now you want to censor my voice by suggesting I should be removed from this forum. Typical of your ilk, you can't handle the facts and truth, but instead attempt to distract and steer the thread off-track while smearing others who challenge and defeat you. It must really suck to be you.

Let me summarize one last time so we are perfectly clear here.

Thread title: "Obama and Gates are the real race baiters"

My assertions: I agree Gates' was being a race baiter with his reaction to Ofc. Crowley's response to the break-in call. However, nothing Gates did justified his arrest for "disorderly conduct"; he yelled at the cop, within the confines of his residence and the porch of his residence. His yelling was directed at no one else other than Crowley. In Mass., you cannot be arrested for yelling at a police officer. Yet AFTER Crowley understood that Gates was in his own residence, he arrested Gates. I never implied, nor had Obama, that Gates' arrest was MOTIVATED by race on the part of Crowley. That was a made-up strawman devised by Obama haters like Rush Limbaugh and Glen Beck so that they and every other right-wing whacko could take cheap shots at Obama for his "stupidly" comment. Obama's elaboration on racial profiling after that comment was to explain Gates' reaction to the situation, NOT to imply that Crowley was acting racist by arresting Crowley, he even said as much.

Bottom line: Was Gates a "race baiter"? Yes.
Was Obama a "race baiter"? No.
Was Obama wrong for calling Crawley's actions "stupid"? No.
Could Obama have "better calibrated" his comment? Yes.
Was Crowley being racist by arresting Gates? Only Crowley knows for sure, but I seriously doubt it given his background. I give him the benefit of that doubt.

Thus, the title of this thread is 1/2 truth, 1/2 distortion, and Foss's credibility gets notched UP a tad for this one; at least he was 1/2 right. ;)
 
lincolnx2 said:
Gates was out of line, but why was he arrested?
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It was an obvious mistake on Crowley's part. Take you pick:

A) He wasn't aware of the fine line between free speech and disorderly conduct.
B) His ego was bruised because he was so well trained to handle hostile rece-laced scenarios like this and was losing control if the situation.
C) He is racist and won't tolerate being ridiculed by a black man.

While there is no evidence to support C), it is a possibility, but I seriously doubt it. In ANY case, he acted stupidly.
 
lincolnx2 said:
Actually my left ball is considered the big ball, so it should read, along with your big dumb ball. The right one is saved for people who like to play with it.
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So you have a prosthetic detachable ball, and THAT'S the one you let people play with? Wow that must be disappointing to whoever is involved (I would think, not known from experience like I know your childish mind is going to say)...
 
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