Oh boy, hope this doesn't get ugly, sure hope my stealership

[docsayler]

Hey everyone. I wanted to get some input on an issue that may get bad between me and my dealer. As some of you have dealt with, My 01 V8 has also started bucking and stalling around 40-55 mph. After research on this forum I came to terms that I may need to replace a couple couple coil packs and a valve cover gasket, which is no bid deal. However, I am out of town for business and just don't have the time to deal with it. I ended up taking it to my local Stealership for the repair. They called me today and said that the two fuel pumps in the tank are going bad and they would have to replace them. I said ok, just get it done. They advised me that $800plus for parts and labor and they would have it done in two days. I am out of town on business and have this crappy feeling that I'm going to come back and shell out $800plus only to find out they have mis-diagnosed the problem just to find out it really is the coil packs. Before I get really mad at the dealership does anyone know if a problem is mis-diagnosed do I have to pay for what they fixed, even if it didn't need fixed.

Thanks for any input. God bless

 

[Joeychgo]

In my experience, they will never admit to a mis diagnosis.

My suggestion is that you get the parts yourself from Five Star Ford or Lincoln Motorsport (if you want to hop up performance) ---- then go to a mechanic that isnt a dealership and have the parts installed.

Reason being, when a dealer repairs a car, they upcharge the parts - and their labor runs twice as much as non dealership mechanics.

 

[docsayler]

In my experience, they will never admit to a mis diagnosis.

My suggestion is that you get the parts yourself from Five Star Ford or Lincoln Motorsport (if you want to hop up performance) ---- then go to a mechanic that isnt a dealership and have the parts installed.

Reason being, when a dealer repairs a car, they upcharge the parts - and their labor runs twice as much as non dealership mechanics.

Thanks for the info Joey. I'm kinda screwed cuz I'm out of town and I already told them to fix it. Also I told them that it I believed it was the coil packs. I explained to them that it gave every warning that it was the coils and that it only acted up after warming up. :F

 

[Joeychgo]

I think I would pay by check and if the problems continue after you pick up the car, stop payment.

 

[eL eS]

I went through the same problem, stalling/shutdown, and they replaced my fuel pumps... i still had the problem. ultimately they had to replace the REM, rear electronic module.

Is you car shutting down during these stalls?

 

[Joeychgo]

there ya go -

 

[eL eS]

find out if they are AAA approved lincoln delaer/repair shop. If they are and you are a member of AAA you can open a dispute with them. The dealer has to accept AAA's final decision but you do not. Basically AAA investigates and arbitrates. If they are not AAA approved AAA will still take the case but the dealer doesn't really have to accept the decision but if they ever decide they want to become AAA approved they will have some issues to correct first.

Like Joey said pay with check or CC becasue you can stop payment or dispute the charge with the CC company.

 

[Joeychgo]

Check is easier. You call the bank and stop it - CC tend to be much harder to do chargebacks.

SImply put, you paid them to fix your car. If they dont, they shouldnt be paid.

 

[docsayler]

I went through the same problem, stalling/shutdown, and they replaced my fuel pumps... i still had the problem. ultimately they had to replace the REM, rear electronic module.

Is you car shutting down during these stalls?

Wow, I hope it's just the pumps. That way I can be done with it. How much does the REM cost. It does eventally shut down until it cools down, then it runs again.

 

[eL eS]

Wow, I hope it's just the pumps. That way I can be done with it. How much does the REM cost. It does eventally shut down until it cools down, then it runs again.

I didn't check the price on it. I put the shop on the ropes and they ate the cost on it so it never showed up on an invoice to me.

 

[eL eS]

Check is easier. You call the bank and stop it - CC tend to be much harder to do chargebacks.

SImply put, you paid them to fix your car. If they dont, they shouldnt be paid.

Most banks do not process checks in realtime and it could take several days plus most banks hit you up with a stop payment fee. If you dispute the charge with a CC the CC company does an investigation if the dealer gets too many investigations Visa/MC... will drop them. With a check all you have is a stop payment.


I have used both methods in the past; I am more comfortable with using the CC method. Just know what your options are and be prepared to bust some heads.

 

[CaptainZilog]

Pay by credit and use the power of Visa or Mastercard to make them eat their own ass if they yank you around.

 

[eL eS]

Pay by credit and use the power of Visa or Mastercard to make them eat their own ass if they yank you around.

It certainly has worked in my favor many times and not just automotive. Anytime i have service performed carpet cleaning, home A/C etc... my good friends at Visa handle the transaction for me. i have been burned too many times and dont have the time it takes to be a pain in the a$$ to the nuts that are a pain in my a$$.

I hope they nail this thing the first time... nothing worse than having your lincoln worked on by folks that dont love it like you do.

 

[docsayler]

It certainly has worked in my favor many times and not just automotive. Anytime i have service performed carpet cleaning, home A/C etc... my good friends at Visa handle the transaction for me. i have been burned too many times and dont have the time it takes to be a pain in the a$$ to the nuts that are a pain in my a$$.

I hope they nail this thing the first time... nothing worse than having your lincoln worked on by folks that dont love it like you do.

The good the bad and the UGLY. The Good I just picked up my LS this afternoon from my Stealership and as estimated it was $847.39 for parts and labor. The bad, It still misfires and shuts down, just as it did when I took it in. The ugly I took it very back and went straight to the manager and explained to him that not only did I tell them what was wrong to begin with, but they charged me $847.39 to replace fuel pumps that weren't the problem. Now the problem still exists when I told them straight up that the coil packs were more thank likely bad. I demanded a refund. He went out and spoke to one of the techs and returned. He gave me a BS line and said, the tech checked your fuel pressure and it was low, which means the pumps would have needed replaced anyway. (I was thinking to myslef :q , he's trying to cover his you know what) After chewing butt and complaining, they still fell back on the tech saying the pressure was low and it was still a problem that was fixed. Then he had the nerve to tell me that since the packs still needed replaced they could get me in for service without having to wait a few days. I said, "only if labor is free." The manager said, "sir, you would still have to pay for the labor as well as the parts, as stated before your pumps were also bad.) I replied with a :q and left.

Needless to say I went to Oreilly's and ordered three packs and the vc gasket set and decided to fix it myself.

I surely hope none of you fellow LS drivers have to experience this.

 

[eL eS]

Should of asked what the pressure read and how they tested it but only while the tech was right there so no one could play look it up game and give you the text book answer.

How long did they have the car?

 

[docsayler]

Should of asked what the pressure read and how they tested it but only while the tech was right there so no one could play look it up game and give you the text book answer.

How long did they have the car?

They had it three days, however two of the days were waiting on parts delivery.

 

[eL eS]

They had it three days, however two of the days were waiting on parts delivery.

either the folks that had my car were/are as dumb as hub caps or the folks that troubleshot you car are solid ford technicians.

It took the folks that picked up on my fuel pumps loosing pressure several weeks to come to that conclusion; only to have it continue to do the same thing after the repair was performed and turned over to me.

The a$$ clowns that you had to deal with deserve to be keel hauled from an LS for the treatment you got. I spent we over 90 days without my LS while they tried to figure out what the problem was.

So on to bigger fish... Is you car shutting down on you? I seen you mentioned and wanted to know under what conditions it normally occur.

I registered my concern with the online but I cannot find the link. IIRC it was the nhtsa website. IF you folks are having similar issues please register them.

Here is one link I found that seems to focus on Ford.

http://www.autosafety.org/article.php?did=539&scid=98

 

[kleetus]

I would very seriously look at small claims court... for a thousand bucks lost, and the problem not solved, I'd have the damn local TV station down there. Also for a measily few hundred bucks you could also put an ad in the local news paper stating their piss poor performance, in your opinion. The opinion part is so they can't sue you for slander, because everybody is entitled to their own opinion. You make their life miserable, they may come around. Also, don't forget to send a letter to ford via certified mail over this event, and copy the dealership. If you're going to swing a stick at them, use the whole damn tree!!

 

[eL eS]

I would very seriously look at small claims court... for a thousand bucks lost, and the problem not solved, I'd have the damn local TV station down there. Also for a measily few hundred bucks you could also put an ad in the local news paper stating their piss poor performance, in your opinion. The opinion part is so they can't sue you for slander, because everybody is entitled to their own opinion. You make their life miserable, they may come around. Also, don't forget to send a letter to ford via certified mail over this event, and copy the dealership. If you're going to swing a stick at them, use the whole damn tree!!

Good idea. I leveraged the arbitration powers of AAA in two cases. One with a AAA approved delaer and one that was not AAA approved but had an application in to become approved.

 

[jdsimons]

Well i think its by law that you legally don't have to pay for services rendered that you are not happy with, i mean it doesn't matter if someone was remodeling you house or even just working on your car. Not sure what the legal procedure would be to cancel check or if it would be best to go to small claims or what the deal. But for a 1000 bucks almost i would find a way to do something. The only problem i see is that you ok'ed them to fix it so they did, Instead of having them replace what you thought was the problem. Eventhough its kind of hard to sit there and argue with those guys. Well man i just hope you solve this problem fast. good luck

 

[eL eS]

he took thier professional opinion over his own and in the end their profesional opinion that he paid for was defective. You raiase a good question if they say it is X and then perform service to fix X and the problem persist what are the real options.

Ford customer service is useless in these cases but it make for a great paper trial if you have to litigate.

This should be just like medicine... Dr's show you results of tests before they operate so that you are educated about what you are getting into. You know the risk and the financial costs.

We accept the word of these shops and get let down more and more. we are paying these nuts to learn from their mistaken diagnosis.

 

[jdsimons]

that is a very good point. They should have shown the results of the test that they print out. My local mechanic who isn't a lincoln dealer but is someone i trust when he tells me that something is going bad or needs to be replaced. And in these days its almost impossible to find someone who is honest and isn't looking to make money. But i think its easier to find in these small towns here in nebraska everyone knows everybody else.. lol.. But anyway he would always show me the printout of the diagnostics test. Shows like compression air to fuel ratios and such. And he would point out the problem if there was one. I know if you go back in there and ask for the printout of their results they will tell ya they threw em away, but sure would be nice to find out what the actual pressure was.

 

[eL eS]

that is a very good point. They should have shown the results of the test that they print out. My local mechanic who isn't a lincoln dealer but is someone i trust when he tells me that something is going bad or needs to be replaced. And in these days its almost impossible to find someone who is honest and isn't looking to make money. But i think its easier to find in these small towns here in nebraska everyone knows everybody else.. lol.. But anyway he would always show me the printout of the diagnostics test. Shows like compression air to fuel ratios and such. And he would point out the problem if there was one. I know if you go back in there and ask for the printout of their results they will tell ya they threw em away, but sure would be nice to find out what the actual pressure was.

I have a mechanic that I trust; a friend of mine and I do take my car to him for a first and/or second opinion. If it is something they can handle i let him do. He won't take jobs he can't handle such as the tranny flush. Any way they d the same thing they explain the problem, show results of the test and tell you what needs to be done.

It is like pulling teeth to get the dealers to provide such information. My last lincoln visit was for the same problem docslayer is having; I had to really stay on these guys to get the information I deserve when it comes to making 1000 dollar decisions. It would behove us as customers to start demanding clearer explanations in advance of approving the work. Make them substatiate thier claims and get the documentation just in case you do have to litigate.

The repair I had done i am almost certain was misdiagnosed the first time as the fuel pumps. They ultimately found that the REM, rear electronic module, had to be replaced. They say they were told the REM had to be replaced if the pumps were replaced but that sounds like absolute BS to me. I didn't call them out on it becasue they ate the cost of the REM and the Labor

 

[kleetus]

Stop payment on a check is easy, just call your bank with the check number, done. You can do a lot more damage to them with bad press and intercompany headaches than just not paying them the $1k. If nobody else goes there for oil changes, inspections, and general repairs, how much does that add up to?

 

[eL eS]

Stop payment on a check is easy, just call your bank with the check number, done. You can do a lot more damage to them with bad press and intercompany headaches than just not paying them the $1k. If nobody else goes there for oil changes, inspections, and general repairs, how much does that add up to?

Yeah if you can create concern with the local consumer affairs watch dogs at you local tv stations, alert AAA, BBB and general word of mouth you can at least walk away with the stisfaction that you made some peoples day at the dealer really bad. Don't let get away wit it.

The dealer that took care of my problem ultimately did the right thing and i sent them a thank you letter. I think I might have been mislead a little but they knew they were wrong and took care of it. I think they mislead me to reduce the amount of egg they were about to wear.