OK lawmakers seek ban on Shariah law

topher5150

Dedicated LVC Member
Joined
May 25, 2008
Messages
3,600
Reaction score
6
Location
Grand Rapids, Michigan
Oklahoma lawmakers are asking voters to weigh in on a proposal that would ban local courts from considering Shariah or other international law in their rulings.

The unusual measure calling for an amendment to the Oklahoma Constitution was approved in late May by the state Senate, sending the issue to voters in the fall in the form of a ballot question.

Though the question's supporters have not pointed to any specific outbreak of Shariah, or Islamic law, being considered in the U.S. judicial system, they describe it as an encroaching threat. State Rep. Rex Duncan, author of the measure, has called the ballot question a "preemptive strike" against Shariah coming to his state.

Duncan said in a statement after the vote that he hopes other states will soon follow Oklahoma's lead.

"Judges in other states and on the federal bench have increasingly turned to citing international law in their court decisions, something I and others feel is grossly inappropriate in a sovereign state such as our own
," he said.

In an interview with The Edmond Sun, Duncan said the courts' willingness in Britain to consider Shariah has become "a cancer upon the survivability of the U.K." He said the ballot question "will constitute a preemptive strike against Shariah Law coming to Oklahoma."

The amendment would require courts to adhere to the laws of the U.S. and state constitutions, as well as federal and state statutes. It would prohibit the courts from considering "the legal precepts of other nations or cultures," including Shariah.
 
i've always gone by the ideal of when in rome.

our laws are ours, thiers are thiers, and never should they meet.
 
i've always gone by the ideal of when in rome.

our laws are ours, thiers are thiers, and never should they meet.
Your sig is taken out of context. Actually, it's hilarious how you think that this quote somehow demonstrates that Jefferson didn't believe in God. The quote is taken from a letter that Jefferson wrote to Adams. He's actually bemoaning the Calvinists who distort the Christian teaching, and making a prediction of the future, not stating his belief that Christianity is a fable.

Moreover, I've bolded the passage where Jefferson clearly states that he believes the universe was designed and created.

Here, I'll paste it for you:


DEAR SIR, -- The wishes expressed, in your last favor, that I may continue in life and health until I become a Calvinist, at least in his exclamation of `mon Dieu! jusque à quand'! would make me immortal. I can never join Calvin in addressing his god. He was indeed an Atheist, which I can never be; or rather his religion was Daemonism. If ever man worshipped a false god, he did. The being described in his 5. points is not the God whom you and I acknolege and adore, the Creator and benevolent governor of the world; but a daemon of malignant spirit. It would be more pardonable to believe in no god at all, than to blaspheme him by the atrocious attributes of Calvin. Indeed I think that every Christian sect gives a great handle to Atheism by their general dogma that, without a revelation, there would not be sufficient proof of the being of a god. Now one sixth of mankind only are supposed to be Christians: the other five sixths then, who do not believe in the Jewish and Christian revelation, are without a knolege of the existence of a god!

This gives compleatly a gain de cause to the disciples of Ocellus, Timaeus, Spinosa, Diderot and D'Holbach. The argument which they rest on as triumphant and unanswerable is that, in every hypothesis of Cosmogony you must admit an eternal pre-existence of something; and according to the rule of sound philosophy, you are never to employ two principles to solve a difficulty when one will suffice. They say then that it is more simple to believe at once in the eternal pre-existence of the world, as it is now going on, and may for ever go on by the principle of reproduction which we see and witness, than to believe in the eternal pre-existence of an ulterior cause, or Creator of the world, a being whom we see not, and know not, of whose form substance and mode or place of existence, or of action no sense informs us, no power of the mind enables us to delineate or comprehend.

On the contrary I hold (without appeal to revelation) that when we take a view of the Universe, in it's parts general or particular, it is impossible for the human mind not to percieve and feel a conviction of design, consummate skill, and indefinite power in every atom of it's composition. The movements of the heavenly bodies, so exactly held in their course by the balance of centrifugal and centripetal forces, the structure of our earth itself, with it's distribution of lands, waters and atmosphere, animal and vegetable bodies, examined in all their minutest particles, insects mere atoms of life, yet as perfectly organised as man or mammoth, the mineral substances, their generation and uses, it is impossible, I say, for the human mind not to believe that there is, in all this, design, cause and effect, up to an ultimate cause, a fabricator of all things from matter and motion, their preserver and regulator while permitted to exist in their present forms, and their regenerator into new and other forms.

We see, too, evident proofs of the necessity of a superintending power to maintain the Universe in it's course and order. Stars, well known, have disappeared, new ones have come into view, comets, in their incalculable courses, may run foul of suns and planets and require renovation under other laws; certain races of animals are become extinct; and, were there no restoring power, all existences might extinguish successively, one by one, until all should be reduced to a shapeless chaos. So irresistible are these evidences of an intelligent and powerful Agent that, of the infinite numbers of men who have existed thro' all time, they have believed, in the proportion of a million at least to Unit, in the hypothesis of an eternal pre-existence of a creator, rather than in that of a self-existent Universe. Surely this unanimous sentiment renders this more probable than that of the few in the other hypothesis. Some early Christians indeed have believed in the coeternal pre-existance of both the Creator and the world, without changing their relation of cause and effect. That this was the opinion of St. Thomas, we are informed by Cardinal Toleto, in these words `Deus ab aeterno fuit jam omnipotens, sicut cum produxit mundum. Ab aeterno potuit producere mundum. -- Si sol ab aeterno esset, lumen ab aeterno esset; et si pes, similiter vestigium. At lumen et vestigium effectus sunt efficientis solis et pedis; potuit ergo cum causâ aeterna effectus coaeterna esse. Cujus sententiae est S. Thomas Theologorum primus' Cardinal Toleta.

Of the nature of this being we know nothing. Jesus tells us that `God is a spirit.' 4. John 24. but without defining what a spirit is {pneyma o Theos}. Down to the 3d. century we know that it was still deemed material; but of a lighter subtler matter than our gross bodies. So says Origen. `Deus igitur, cui anima similis est, juxta Originem, reapte corporalis est; sed graviorum tantum ratione corporum incorporeus.' These are the words of Huet in his commentary on Origen. Origen himself says `appelatio {asomaton} apud nostros scriptores est inusitata et incognita.' So also Tertullian `quis autem negabit Deum esse corpus, etsi deus spiritus? Spiritus etiam corporis sui generis, in suâ effigie.' Tertullian. These two fathers were of the 3d. century. Calvin's character of this supreme being seems chiefly copied from that of the Jews. But the reformation of these blasphemous attributes, and substitution of those more worthy, pure and sublime, seems to have been the chief object of Jesus in his discources to the Jews: and his doctrine of the Cosmogony of the world is very clearly laid down in the 3 first verses of the 1st. chapter of John, in these words, `{en arche en o logos, kai o logos en pros ton Theon kai Theos en o logos. `otos en en arche pros ton Theon. Panta de ayto egeneto, kai choris ayto egeneto ode en, o gegonen}. Which truly translated means `in the beginning God existed, and reason (or mind) was with God, and that mind was God. This was in the beginning with God. All things were created by it, and without it was made not one thing which was made'. Yet this text, so plainly declaring the doctrine of Jesus that the world was created by the supreme, intelligent being, has been perverted by modern Christians to build up a second person of their tritheism by a mistranslation of the word {logos}. One of it's legitimate meanings indeed is `a word.' But, in that sense, it makes an unmeaning jargon: while the other meaning `reason', equally legitimate, explains rationally the eternal preexistence of God, and his creation of the world. Knowing how incomprehensible it was that `a word,' the mere action or articulation of the voice and organs of speech could create a world, they undertake to make of this articulation a second preexisting being, and ascribe to him, and not to God, the creation of the universe. The Atheist here plumes himself on the uselessness of such a God, and the simpler hypothesis of a self-existent universe.

The truth is that the greatest enemies to the doctrines of Jesus are those calling themselves the expositors of them, who have perverted them for the structure of a system of fancy absolutely incomprehensible, and without any foundation in his genuine words. And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. But we may hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with all this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this the most venerated reformer of human errors.

So much for your quotation of Calvin's `mon dieu! jusqu'a quand' in which, when addressed to the God of Jesus, and our God, I join you cordially, and await his time and will with more readiness than reluctance. May we meet there again, in Congress, with our antient Colleagues, and recieve with them the seal of approbation `Well done, good and faithful servants.'

So funny to see you get *owned* by your own signature. :bowrofl:
 
Your sig is taken out of context. Actually, it's hilarious how you think that this quote somehow demonstrates that Jefferson didn't believe in God. The quote is taken from a letter that Jefferson wrote to Adams. He's actually bemoaning the Calvinists who distort the Christian teaching, and making a prediction of the future, not stating his belief that Christianity is a fable.

Moreover, I've bolded the passage where Jefferson clearly states that he believes the universe was designed and created.

So funny to see you get *owned* by your own signature. :bowrofl:

I don't think hrmwrm is implying that Jefferson was an Atheist - just the whole immaculate conception thing is a bit far fetched.

Jefferson did not believe Jesus was divine. "That Jesus did not mean to impose himself on mankind as the son of god physically speaking I have been convinced by the writings of men more learned than myself," he wrote. But he added that Jesus "might conscientiously believe himself inspired from above," since his milieu of Judaism stressed that leadership was invariably based on divine revelation and he might have breathed "the fumes of the most disordered imaginations."

Jefferson saw Jesus as philosopher, as a teacher, but not as 'God'.

So, as far as the whole 'Shariah Law' thing - I would assume they are just going with the parts that don't overlap our law. They overlap probably more than they don't...

The stoning and killing as a result of adulterous behavior would be rather laughable in the USA...
 
I don't think hrmwrm is implying that Jefferson was an Atheist - just the whole immaculate conception thing is a bit far fetched.
Thanks for your noncontribution to the thread. :rolleyes:

Jefferson is wrong about that one. Jesus could not have been just a teacher - either he was God or he was a lunatic.
 
Oklahoma lawmakers are asking voters to weigh in on a proposal that would ban local courts from considering Shariah or other international law in their rulings.

The unusual measure calling for an amendment to the Oklahoma Constitution was approved in late May by the state Senate, sending the issue to voters in the fall in the form of a ballot question.

Though the question's supporters have not pointed to any specific outbreak of Shariah, or Islamic law, being considered in the U.S. judicial system, they describe it as an encroaching threat. State Rep. Rex Duncan, author of the measure, has called the ballot question a "preemptive strike" against Shariah coming to his state.

Duncan said in a statement after the vote that he hopes other states will soon follow Oklahoma's lead.

"Judges in other states and on the federal bench have increasingly turned to citing international law in their court decisions, something I and others feel is grossly inappropriate in a sovereign state such as our own
," he said.

In an interview with The Edmond Sun, Duncan said the courts' willingness in Britain to consider Shariah has become "a cancer upon the survivability of the U.K." He said the ballot question "will constitute a preemptive strike against Shariah Law coming to Oklahoma."

The amendment would require courts to adhere to the laws of the U.S. and state constitutions, as well as federal and state statutes. It would prohibit the courts from considering "the legal precepts of other nations or cultures," including Shariah.

One word to describe it.... "NWO" .... with how subservient the american public has become its more of an absolute future than a possibility. They've managed to water down the gene pool with eugenics, now the majority is too stupid to see the truth. In other words we're f'd!
 
Thanks for your noncontribution to the thread. :rolleyes:

Jefferson is wrong about that one. Jesus could not have been just a teacher - either he was God or he was a lunatic.

At least I addressed the topic of the thread...:p something you failed to do. - And Mr Camel - Shariah law is pretty extreme - I really doubt if the American public would go for it - for example the way it treats women wouldn't be a big seller here in the states.

And Jefferson might be wrong - but that is what Jefferson believed. That is the reason for the quote. Jesus is not divine, so the whole immaculate conception is just a fable in Jefferson's viewpoint, similar to the stories in Greek and Roman mythology. Jefferson believed in a Deity - just not the Holy Trinity setup.
 
At least I addressed the topic of the thread...:p something you failed to do.
Tsk tsk, Vapo-rub...petty. And let's face it, your token attempt to address the topic was about as profound as a warm bucket of hamster vomit.
 
Mere Christianity

Thanks for your noncontribution to the thread. :rolleyes:

Jefferson is wrong about that one. Jesus could not have been just a teacher - either he was God or he was a lunatic.

...and a tip of the hat to C. S. Lewis... :)

KS
 
1

religion hope.jpg
 
:D:D:D

Oh, Foss 'liar' is part of Lewis' "trilemma" - Lunatic, Liar or Lord.
No, it's not part of his conclusion. I've already nutshelled his explanation above. You didn't read it all the way through, Victrola. Nice try, FAIL!
 
No, it's not part of his conclusion. I've already nutshelled his explanation above. You didn't read it all the way through, Victrola. Nice try, FAIL!

I was just adding the third part of the 'trifecta' foss... Not whether I agreed with it or not - it isn't just Lunatic or Lord - it is Liar, Lunatic or Lord...

Everyone was leaving out the 'liar' option.

However I like the article link - it also gets rid of the 'propaganda' option as well...
 
In regard to 'liar', I refer back to my earlier comment, "One solitary Life'. Another precept from C. S. Lewis is the thought that people desperately trying to deny something are prone to ultimately find themselves very far out on the end of a slender branch and a very long way from the ground. (My words) However unlikely one'd like to make the idea, either accept or descend onto ridiculousness.

KS
 
I was just adding the third part of the 'trifecta' foss... Not whether I agreed with it or not - it isn't just Lunatic or Lord - it is Liar, Lunatic or Lord...

Everyone was leaving out the 'liar' option.

However I like the article link - it also gets rid of the 'propaganda' option as well...
Why bother reading his book - just read an article, eh Vickie? Lazy, but typical.

So, basically you don't have anything to add to the discussion, but you just want to interject something you heard and managed to verify from an article. Brilliant, troll.
 
Why bother reading his book - just read an article, eh Vickie? Lazy, but typical.

So, basically you don't have anything to add to the discussion, but you just want to interject something you heard and managed to verify from an article. Brilliant, troll.

Is The Case for Christianity a book? I got a pamphlet of it when I was in school - I don't know about a book - sorry foss. My CS Lewis is pretty well relegated to the Narnia series, and some pamphlets about Christianity we got at school. I tried to read Space Trilogy - and just couldn't slog my way through - not for me I guess.
 

Members online

No members online now.
Back
Top