joegr
Dedicated LVC Member
Just below the DCCV (passenger side of radiator).
Overheating, I've done what I'm willing to do.
- Thread starter SoulSoak
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Just below the DCCV (passenger side of radiator).
RigsLS
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Easy now Soul, with all the parts throwing at it. from what we've seen in your Cooling overhaul thread (w/ pics) and what we've understood here, you've made large attempts at refreshing all those aging plastic cooling system parts. The DCCV actually only needs replacing when you start having troubles with it constantly blowing heat out of both or one side of the vents as it's Dual Climate controlled. Yes, they can leak but if your climate control interior heat/cooling demands are working as they should ... why mess with it for now, I don't think that is the root cause of your intermittent overheating. The Coolant Auxiliary pump only needs to be replaced when you get little or no heat at idle as this little 12V pump only provide assistance in circulating hot coolant to the interior heater core when the RPMs are not up. Yes it could also leak but failure is more likely and it means you'd have little to no heat during low idle RPM's instead, not overheating. Also the Coolant Auxiliary pump assists in circulating the coolant on engine shut down for a bit if you read the manual.
Lot of folks here trying to help you ... (nice to see for sure) ... get's a bit messy when too many cooks in the kitchen but we can clearly see everyone is looking for a leak. Leak as in a not-air/pressure-tight system.
Like you mentioned before, see if you can continue to drive it and see if the overheating continues to happen, you mentioned it's an intermittent condition and does not even appear to actually be overheating.
Are you actually going down in level of coolant in the Degas bottle ? We suspect air in the system but it could very well be you've managed to burp that out by now.
Small cracks anywhere in the system are a real PITA as mentioned only reveals itself when the system is under higher pressure with the RPM's up. Look around for any little white residue near anything Cooling system related. Have a flash light and friend handy when it decides to overheat again, soon as it happens, have the friend rev up the RPM's and keep it there while you look closely under hood with the flashlight. If any small crack anywhere during overheat and pressure it should show leakage.
I'd be real interested to learn if you actually find that you are going low on coolant in the degas bottle. Having to add some constantly.
as well, check the wired connector onto the Cylinder Head Temp sensor on the passenger side right above the coil cover. Is it seated correctly?
Degas bottle pressure cap? it's OEM you say, I read. They can be defective even new out of the box, it needs to hold pressure.
Lot of good help coming your way, stay cool (no pun) you and your wife WILL get to the bottom of this.
Id say, ride it out, see it it wants to overheat intermittently again, you may have gotten the last of the air pocket out by now.
If your having to add coolant fluid to the bottle there is indeed then a small leak somewhere, as small as you may not even see it anywhere and will allow air into the pressurized system.
Keep at it ... let us know ... very much subscribed here. GLWR
Lot of folks here trying to help you ... (nice to see for sure) ... get's a bit messy when too many cooks in the kitchen but we can clearly see everyone is looking for a leak. Leak as in a not-air/pressure-tight system.
Like you mentioned before, see if you can continue to drive it and see if the overheating continues to happen, you mentioned it's an intermittent condition and does not even appear to actually be overheating.
Are you actually going down in level of coolant in the Degas bottle ? We suspect air in the system but it could very well be you've managed to burp that out by now.
Small cracks anywhere in the system are a real PITA as mentioned only reveals itself when the system is under higher pressure with the RPM's up. Look around for any little white residue near anything Cooling system related. Have a flash light and friend handy when it decides to overheat again, soon as it happens, have the friend rev up the RPM's and keep it there while you look closely under hood with the flashlight. If any small crack anywhere during overheat and pressure it should show leakage.
I'd be real interested to learn if you actually find that you are going low on coolant in the degas bottle. Having to add some constantly.
as well, check the wired connector onto the Cylinder Head Temp sensor on the passenger side right above the coil cover. Is it seated correctly?
Degas bottle pressure cap? it's OEM you say, I read. They can be defective even new out of the box, it needs to hold pressure.
Lot of good help coming your way, stay cool (no pun) you and your wife WILL get to the bottom of this.
Id say, ride it out, see it it wants to overheat intermittently again, you may have gotten the last of the air pocket out by now.
If your having to add coolant fluid to the bottle there is indeed then a small leak somewhere, as small as you may not even see it anywhere and will allow air into the pressurized system.
Keep at it ... let us know ... very much subscribed here. GLWR
86markviilsc
Active LVC Member
You might want to check the wiring for the temperature sensor, or the sensor itself. On the 3.9L the CHT is a one time use item, if it gets loose or or knocked off, it needs to be replaced The wiring could chafe as well. Just throwing ideas out there.
RigsLS
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Little side note here for future readers:
2nd GEN LS = Below the DCCV
1st GEN LS = Above the DCCV
Little 12V pump known as Auxiliary Coolant Flow Pump OEM P/N 1W4Z-18D473-AA, there is actually a cheaper Jaguar pump direct fit available.
Re&Re - OEM Auxiliary Coolant Flow Pump - GEN 1 V8
RigsLS
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yeah, that's what I was getting at as well earlier ... I recall mine, looked like the connector was half off and not seated correctly, pressed mine down further, cleaned the contacts and reseated it, wasn't a problem for overheating but I noted it during my cooling system overhaul and corrected it. Fragile little thing. Copper rod.
Thanks for the in depth speculation and response Rig. I have been checking the degas tank everyday and the coolant level hasn't moved at all. I haven't had the car overheat since last weekend but I also haven't driven it for longer than 15minute periods at a time.
Judging by your information on the dccv and aux pump, I'll hold off on replacing those. I will however order a new radiator. I won't install it yet unless I experience more overheating.
If I do experience more overheating I will install the new radiator as well as remove, clean, and reseal the plastic cooling components.
I will check on that sensor today after work. There's just a passenger side cylinder head temp sensor?
Judging by your information on the dccv and aux pump, I'll hold off on replacing those. I will however order a new radiator. I won't install it yet unless I experience more overheating.
If I do experience more overheating I will install the new radiator as well as remove, clean, and reseal the plastic cooling components.
I will check on that sensor today after work. There's just a passenger side cylinder head temp sensor?
RigsLS
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Actually did some more reading on the 2nd GEN CHT sensor and don't think this plays a part in your problem after all.
It reads in the manual when it reaches higher temps it (PCM) begins to disable fuel injectors and cylinders start to act like air pumps to aid in engine cooling. Continues to read on that the coolant temperature gauge pointer will read fully hot.
Kinda seems pointless to start checking that I would have to say. Bad info ... sorry.
It reads in the manual when it reaches higher temps it (PCM) begins to disable fuel injectors and cylinders start to act like air pumps to aid in engine cooling. Continues to read on that the coolant temperature gauge pointer will read fully hot.
Kinda seems pointless to start checking that I would have to say. Bad info ... sorry.
The camera on my phone is broken so I can't currently take a picture. But I noticed while looking around under the hood that the main plastic body has a slight gap. If you're standing in front of the car, the left side of the main plastic body where it attaches to the block (plastic facet with a bolt on top and bottom of plastic flange) the right side of that flange seems to have a 2mm gap or so. This flange has the rubber O-ring inside of it where it meets the O-ring recess in the block itself. Maybe this gap is my issue allowing some air to seep in once the system is pressurized and at operating temp.
Does anyone have torque specs to the main plastic body and cooling plastics? I just ratcheted them on back in August. I figure I'll buy some tack seal and get a good seal on the O-rings and the plastic cooling parts and try the bleed again. However I'm going to have to find time outside of my 2 jobs now, that will be difficult.
Anyhow, opinions on this new discovery or opinions at all are more than accepted.
I guess I could add that I was under the hood because the car decided to play around again. While driving the temp gauge super slowly crept up to just passed halfway while had being at operating temp (half way) for 15 to 20min.
I ruled the fan out because the temp would creep up to 3/4sh while driving and when I pull over (the strangest thing happens) the temp gauge goes down to just passed halfway again. It drops. Anyhow I check the fan and it's operating at moderate speed, like a cooling speed but deffinately not on blast.
But yeah it's crazy that the temp seemed to drop while I was stopped, and was fluctuating while driving between passed halfway and 3/4.
The only thing I can think of is while I'm driving, the engine is at a higher rpm than idle. Which means the water pump is cycling faster than at idle. I figure a higher water pump cycle could be pressurizing the system and allowing air to seep in at that small gap. Whereas at idle, the coolant isn't flowing as heavily or pressurizing as much because the water pump isn't cycling as fast. This could be completely incorrect logic though I don't know.
Does anyone have torque specs to the main plastic body and cooling plastics? I just ratcheted them on back in August. I figure I'll buy some tack seal and get a good seal on the O-rings and the plastic cooling parts and try the bleed again. However I'm going to have to find time outside of my 2 jobs now, that will be difficult.
Anyhow, opinions on this new discovery or opinions at all are more than accepted.
I guess I could add that I was under the hood because the car decided to play around again. While driving the temp gauge super slowly crept up to just passed halfway while had being at operating temp (half way) for 15 to 20min.
I ruled the fan out because the temp would creep up to 3/4sh while driving and when I pull over (the strangest thing happens) the temp gauge goes down to just passed halfway again. It drops. Anyhow I check the fan and it's operating at moderate speed, like a cooling speed but deffinately not on blast.
But yeah it's crazy that the temp seemed to drop while I was stopped, and was fluctuating while driving between passed halfway and 3/4.
The only thing I can think of is while I'm driving, the engine is at a higher rpm than idle. Which means the water pump is cycling faster than at idle. I figure a higher water pump cycle could be pressurizing the system and allowing air to seep in at that small gap. Whereas at idle, the coolant isn't flowing as heavily or pressurizing as much because the water pump isn't cycling as fast. This could be completely incorrect logic though I don't know.
Hmm.. Now I've just noticed something else strange that I haven't noticed before. On the GenII gauge cluster, there is a line just above the C and a line just below the H. I went to move my car from the street and into the driveway. When I got in the car, I cycled the key to the run position and let it sit until the fuel pump has pressurized and all the cluster lights go away (always do this), but I noticed the temp gauge was at the bottom line just above the "C". And I thought to myself... I know the engine is still warmer than that.
So I turned the ignition back to the off position, and then cycled it back to the run position again. Now the temp gauge instantly read back up to about 1/3 (still warm). Is this normal... or does it sound like I may have a rare occurance of a faulty temp gauge? Just curious because I don't understand why the gauge would be at C, then as I turn off and recycle the key it reads warm.
Thanks guys, I know I'm a pain in the ass but so is my car. I really thank you all for all your help throughout my ownership, and despite all the problems I'm still a proud owner. Wouldn't trade the car for anything. God bless
So I turned the ignition back to the off position, and then cycled it back to the run position again. Now the temp gauge instantly read back up to about 1/3 (still warm). Is this normal... or does it sound like I may have a rare occurance of a faulty temp gauge? Just curious because I don't understand why the gauge would be at C, then as I turn off and recycle the key it reads warm.
Thanks guys, I know I'm a pain in the ass but so is my car. I really thank you all for all your help throughout my ownership, and despite all the problems I'm still a proud owner. Wouldn't trade the car for anything. God bless
RJLipscomb
Active LVC Member
Let's start by ruling out what it is not.
Are you continuing to monitor the coolant level? The system under pressure, coolant wants to leak out. The system is closed and it cannot. If the coolant level is not changing (going down), that generally means that you do not have a leak. Have we (you) verified and confirmed the coolant level status?
Are you continuing to monitor the coolant level? The system under pressure, coolant wants to leak out. The system is closed and it cannot. If the coolant level is not changing (going down), that generally means that you do not have a leak. Have we (you) verified and confirmed the coolant level status?
Blueberryyum02
Well-Known LVC Member
Check your fan.
Coolant hasn't moved at all, been at the same level. No coolant leakage visible, but I was referring to air leaking in to the system not coolant leaking out.
Going to purchase a new radiator today on my way to the shop. As previously stated, it's going to be hard to find time now that I'm working 16hour days but it'll have to be a Sunday after church thing.
And hey Joe, that tack seal link you gave me. Is that specifically just for around the O-ring areas or is it for the surface areas of the block/cooling plastic faces as well?
Also, would it be advisable to use petrogel on the connecting O-ring parts (IE where the plastic elbow under intake manifold connects to main plastic body via O-ring seal)?
I hear of how the radiator is a PITA to swap so I'm looking forward to that, but I only have floor jack and jack stands so I don't think I'll have clearance to remove from the bottom. Is it feasible to remove and install from the top? I've heard comments that contradict either way so just wondered.
And hey Joe, that tack seal link you gave me. Is that specifically just for around the O-ring areas or is it for the surface areas of the block/cooling plastic faces as well?
Also, would it be advisable to use petrogel on the connecting O-ring parts (IE where the plastic elbow under intake manifold connects to main plastic body via O-ring seal)?
I hear of how the radiator is a PITA to swap so I'm looking forward to that, but I only have floor jack and jack stands so I don't think I'll have clearance to remove from the bottom. Is it feasible to remove and install from the top? I've heard comments that contradict either way so just wondered.
joegr
Dedicated LVC Member
Tack seal for the surface areas and the rubber seals. Lubricant for the actual o-ring. (I have used tack seal on the big o-ring before, but it is very difficult as you have to make sure that the o-ring doesn't twist.
Note that only one of the rubber seals is an actual o-ring.
Note that only one of the rubber seals is an actual o-ring.
Correct, the only actual o-ring is the large one that wraps around the neck of the 9N499. The other smaller rings are the two front face ring that sit in the engine block recesses. And they are ribbed.
Oh and according to the manual I've found that the thermostat housing torque specs are 89lb/in. I'd assume this applies to all bolts of the main plastic body? Thanks
Radiator is waiting for me at the shop. Going to be heading there tomorrow morning to install it as well as remove and seal my cooling plastics.
I'll be tackling this by myself, but I have the entire day/night so I'm just going to take my time. Anyone got any tips for the radiator swap? Preventative damage, or proper process tips? I'm planning to just use the denau manual but any other advice would be great. And I'm going to be removing and installing from the top because I don't believe jackstands will be high enough for me to pull and install from the bottom.
Thanks in advance for the help and tips guys, gotta spend some time with the wife now. God bless
I'll be tackling this by myself, but I have the entire day/night so I'm just going to take my time. Anyone got any tips for the radiator swap? Preventative damage, or proper process tips? I'm planning to just use the denau manual but any other advice would be great. And I'm going to be removing and installing from the top because I don't believe jackstands will be high enough for me to pull and install from the bottom.
Thanks in advance for the help and tips guys, gotta spend some time with the wife now. God bless
Done with radiator, now just wondering if someone can answer me on this so I can finish up.
I'm going to use tack seal permatex on the rubber ring gaskets for the main plastic cooling body. But I'm debating using blue RTV gasket maker for the plastic body surface that bolts to the engine block front face.
Is there any reason I shouldn't use the blue RTV? Please respond asap so I can finish up. Thanks guys
I'm going to use tack seal permatex on the rubber ring gaskets for the main plastic cooling body. But I'm debating using blue RTV gasket maker for the plastic body surface that bolts to the engine block front face.
Is there any reason I shouldn't use the blue RTV? Please respond asap so I can finish up. Thanks guys
Finished the Radiator install and sealed my main plastic cooling body with Permatex tack and seal as recommended by Joegr. It took me all day to do everything, however despite not having a 5/16th's racheting wrench for the removal it really wasn't that bad. My wife brought me food and took me to go buy the wrench to make the install quicker. Here are some pics for fun.
On the last photo, on the right side of the engine's front fascia where the main plastic body meets, you can see how clean it is compared to the left side. The residue that was built up on the left side was the same on the right side, I cleaned them both before installing the main plastic body with tack seal.
Now for the worst part of the entire day. I got it all back together right and bled it correctly according to procedure. Read some of my Bible while I waited for it to cool down all the way. Once it cooled down, I checked the degas level. All was good, didn't need to add any.
Started her up and drove the 15-20min drive home. Once I pulled in the driveway, I popped the hood to check things out and make sure all was clean and good. Which it was. I then reentered my driver seat to find the temp gauge at 3/4. (Pissed out of my mind), I got up and checked the engine area while it was still running. The fan wasn't on "high", it was at a running speed that would be considered moderate and/or normal as if it were at normal operating temperature. Nothing looked out of the ordinary. So I then returned to my driver
seat again to find this stupid ordeal going on...
The temp gauge would change from 3/4, to horizontal (Normal Operating Temp), then to 3/4, then to horizontal, then to just between horizontal and 3/4, then back to horizontal etc. Almost as if it were shorting out or something. This was happening instantaeously. In other words... it wasn't flowing slowly between the temps, it would instantly switch like as if you flipped a light switch. The switching would occur every second, or even less than a second. One thing it never did was read Cold or below normal operating temp. It would only fluctuate between the temperatures previously stated.
So this is how I'll go about this. I have a brand new cooling system (Or atleast all the common and/or practical fail faulty parts). Judging by what I just witnessed happen with my temperature gauge, I'm going to have to assume it's electrical (A faulty sensor/ground or something). So I suppose I'm just going to drive it until it blows up. If it's God's intention that it blows up, then it will happen. If it isn't, then it won't. And that's not ignorance, it's faith.
Eventually once I get some time and/or care to take the car all the way to Grand Rapids (An hours drive) to drop it off and have it diagnosed by the Lincoln dealer, I will. But currently working 75-85 hours a week between my factory job slavery and part time autobody job, a house to repaint and renovate now that my in laws finally moved out, and the never ending list of things my pregnant wife that's due in July wants me to do... I'd say that my times quite tied up.
Just gonna drive it like I stole it now, flippin' the coin.
God bless guys, hope everyone has a great weekend.
On the last photo, on the right side of the engine's front fascia where the main plastic body meets, you can see how clean it is compared to the left side. The residue that was built up on the left side was the same on the right side, I cleaned them both before installing the main plastic body with tack seal.
Now for the worst part of the entire day. I got it all back together right and bled it correctly according to procedure. Read some of my Bible while I waited for it to cool down all the way. Once it cooled down, I checked the degas level. All was good, didn't need to add any.
Started her up and drove the 15-20min drive home. Once I pulled in the driveway, I popped the hood to check things out and make sure all was clean and good. Which it was. I then reentered my driver seat to find the temp gauge at 3/4. (Pissed out of my mind), I got up and checked the engine area while it was still running. The fan wasn't on "high", it was at a running speed that would be considered moderate and/or normal as if it were at normal operating temperature. Nothing looked out of the ordinary. So I then returned to my driver
seat again to find this stupid ordeal going on...
The temp gauge would change from 3/4, to horizontal (Normal Operating Temp), then to 3/4, then to horizontal, then to just between horizontal and 3/4, then back to horizontal etc. Almost as if it were shorting out or something. This was happening instantaeously. In other words... it wasn't flowing slowly between the temps, it would instantly switch like as if you flipped a light switch. The switching would occur every second, or even less than a second. One thing it never did was read Cold or below normal operating temp. It would only fluctuate between the temperatures previously stated.
So this is how I'll go about this. I have a brand new cooling system (Or atleast all the common and/or practical fail faulty parts). Judging by what I just witnessed happen with my temperature gauge, I'm going to have to assume it's electrical (A faulty sensor/ground or something). So I suppose I'm just going to drive it until it blows up. If it's God's intention that it blows up, then it will happen. If it isn't, then it won't. And that's not ignorance, it's faith.
Eventually once I get some time and/or care to take the car all the way to Grand Rapids (An hours drive) to drop it off and have it diagnosed by the Lincoln dealer, I will. But currently working 75-85 hours a week between my factory job slavery and part time autobody job, a house to repaint and renovate now that my in laws finally moved out, and the never ending list of things my pregnant wife that's due in July wants me to do... I'd say that my times quite tied up.
Just gonna drive it like I stole it now, flippin' the coin.
God bless guys, hope everyone has a great weekend.
joegr
Dedicated LVC Member
I suppose it could be a problem with the cluster itself. You could verify this if you had a scan tool that would read the sensors in real time. You'd want to look at the coolant temperature and the head temperature readings while watching the gauge do it's thing. If the readings were steady while the gauge was moving around, you'd know that it's a problem in the cluster (maybe the servo for the temperature gauge).