PCV system 2002 sport ls

[smegun]

having a puff of smoke at the drivers side fire wall area but not all the time just some transparent heat fumes can be seen

Ran two sets of techron fuel system cleaner before this inspection and started running some lucas so I can imagine a little excess at the cats but not overly stated as there is a vac wistle at shut down but whats the best approach to pvc cleaning im watching some vids that state crankcase fumes can be deadly over pressurizing the seals

 

[joegr]

Which engine?

 

[smegun]

Which engine?

3.9 throttle bogy rear....

p.s: im working on my 94 exp also did the same thing began with poor excelleration then puffs at rear of motor on investigation lower intake gasket bubbled up finding oil in some of the exhaust manifold bolt holes drip drip

 

[joegr]

Probably valve cover gaskets for the smoke.
Lots of possibilities for the air leak.

 

[smegun]

whistle sounds like its under some pressure like a compressor cutn off

 

[joegr]

whistle sounds like its under some pressure like a compressor cutn off

Have you tried it with the AC shutoff?
After you turn the engine off, if you step on the brake pedal, do you still have power boost for one or two presses of the pedal?
Is the hydraulic fan operating correctly?
Is the fuel rail holding pressure after shutdown?
Any codes for the evap system present?

 

[Broseph]

Pretty sure the 3.9 doesn’t have a PCV like the 3.0. Just a tube that runs from the intake to the left val e cover with a screen. Doubt it would be smoking issue.

Valve cover leaks on 3.9 are fairly common, so would check that as Joegr said. Albeit it’s hard to “check” the valve covers on the 3.9 for a leak.

 

[smegun]

ill be checking tensioners waiting on new cam cover gasket set ...ordering intake gasket set also ... only 18 ft lbs torque spec on intake manifold has me silicone crazy

 

[joegr]

2nd gen spec is 15 ft-lb, and I've had no problem with that. The only oil in the 3.9 intake is the unintended oil from the PCV system. As was said, I don't think you can see most leaks from the valve cover gaskets. Normally, you will see oil in the spark plug wells from the o-rings first, but I guess it is possible for the perimeter seal to fail first.

Just to clarify, the 3.9 does have a full PCV system. It just does not have a PCV valve. It has other features to prevent a backfire from igniting vapors in the crankcase.

Note also that there is a set of gaskets between the metal parts of the intake and the plastic part. These seem to be the ones that fail when people are having intake air leaks, not the metal ones between the intake and the block. These are not available from Ford.

 

[Broseph]

2nd gen spec is 15 ft-lb, and I've had no problem with that. The only oil in the 3.9 intake is the unintended oil from the PCV system. As was said, I don't think you can see most leaks from the valve cover gaskets. Normally, you will see oil in the spark plug wells from the o-rings first, but I guess it is possible for the perimeter seal to fail first.

Just to clarify, the 3.9 does have a full PCV system. It just does not have a PCV valve. It has other features to prevent a backfire from igniting vapors in the crankcase.

Note also that there is a set of gaskets between the metal parts of the intake and the plastic part. These seem to be the ones that fail when people are having intake air leaks, not the metal ones between the intake and the block. These are not available from Ford.

Interesting on the PCV system. I’ll check into what it entails, but understood from most forum talk that it was a bit rudimentary as I stated “ Just some tubing and a screen which didn’t make sense when I first heard it. Without the valve, I’m curious how it functions.

To the OP, all those gaskets are a lot of work for something that sounds like a maybe. By “cam cover”, do you mean valve cover? Because I assumed your statement meant the timing cover gasket which would be a massive undertaking

 

[GreyWisent]

When oil leaks past the valve cover gasket it drips onto the exhaust manifold. If it's bad enough and you run the engine long enough (30 minutes highway speeds was more than enough for me), you will see some smoke. You can easily check if this is the case by looking for visible leaks down from the cover to the exhaust manifold. If you have smoke they should be visible. As per usual, "what Joe said".

Interesting on the PCV system. I’ll check into what it entails, but understood from most forum talk that it was a bit rudimentary as I stated “ Just some tubing and a screen which didn’t make sense when I first heard it. Without the valve, I’m curious how it functions.

That's exactly what it is:

See the "white" U shaped cover here?

Under that it's all steel mesh, and on the other side of the case, there's a hole for the tubing. It's rudimentary simple (because Joe got mad at us...) for sure, especially for such an otherwise over-engineered car, but accomplishes the same goals as a valve. Balancing loss of manifold vacuum with the flow of crankcase fumes is probably achieved by the relative small orifice size, combined with steadier intake manifold pulses than other cars. As for backfire flames, steel mesh (or any porous metal filter) is perfect at extinguishing flame fronts. I'm just happy we don't have another part to change/maintain.

whats the best approach to pvc cleaning

You can clean the PVC pipes in your house however you want...
but the PCV system in the LS doesn't really need much maintenance, AFAIK. It would be very difficult for that 1-inch wide hose to plug up, but feel free to remove it and clean it as it's probably drenched in condensed oil vapours. Wish it had a catch can for that. There's not much to plug up that steel mesh either.

 

[joegr]

So, a design that is simpler and requires less maintenance to do the job is somehow "rudimentary?"

If you want an over complicated PCV design, get a BMW. www.bimmerworld.com/Engine/Crankcase-Vent-Systems-Valves-and-Hoses/
Those things are a major pain to replace, and have to be replaced more often than our cooling systems (they suffer the same plastic problems we have, but have no failsafe cooling to protect the engine). On the plus side, a correctly working one does do a cute little sneeze a few seconds after shutdown.

 

[GreyWisent]

For me rudimentary means related to more basic principles, but it does carry a negative connotation that I didn't pay attention to. Hoping that the rest of my message carried the same thought that Joe expressed above: if something simpler achieves the same or better results, then it's preferable over a more complicated system.

 

[smegun]

Have you tried it with the AC shutoff?
After you turn the engine off, if you step on the brake pedal, do you still have power boost for one or two presses of the pedal?
Is the hydraulic fan operating correctly?
Is the fuel rail holding pressure after shutdown?
Any codes for the evap system present?

interesting my pedal is mushy if im at freeway speeds it builds up to better pressure .....i was wondering about the overall vac pressure ….I got a new air compressor assisted brake bleeder kit that im going to try out but tell me more about the systems vacuum pressure related ...hydrolic fan works yes havnt metered the fuel pressure all status checks from the interior read out say AOK no dtc's on the obd2

 

[smegun]

maybe someone can post a cleaning of that vent or assembly I'm not as worried thank you maybe my cat smokes a little at times from too much mechanic in a can I still see what one would call haze back there … intermittent it runs a little rough when cold then later nice for a while when warm it runs a little nice at end of tank of gas it runs good sometimes from get go then rougher getting hotter …. I question the fuel trim to its furthest extensions and time it takes to set up :/ not to fond of OBD and cpm as of yet maybe they only need a little logic and a switch block as constantly adjusting vehicles are not anticipatively fun what am I learning ? how safe is that ?

 

[smegun]

maybe someone can post a cleaning of that vent or assembly I'm not as worried thank you maybe my cat smokes a little at times from too much mechanic in a can I still see what one would call haze back there … intermittent it runs a little rough when cold then later nice for a while when warm it runs a little nice at end of tank of gas it runs good sometimes from get go then rougher dragging …. I question the fuel trim to its furthest extensions and time it takes to set up :/ not to fond of OBD and cpm as of yet maybe they only need a little logic and a switch block as constantly adjusting vehicles are not anticipatively fun what am I learning ? how safe is that ?

you should see what happened to my explorer I had been chasing a misfire and valve tick fed up I opened her up the intake was a little caked and the oil burning from a bubled up lower manifold gasket had reached the exhaust and just caked up the overhead valve train ...it was never the problem though evidently I had been nursing a recessed valve (after head inspection) but the pcv valve looked ok !!! no flashing trouble codes or check engines, although I never counted out the flashes for the paper clip method overly scrutinizing just 111 all is well ????

 

[joegr]

I must admit, I am having a little trouble parsing all that...

 

[smegun]

that's ok English isn't my best (professionally concise or diatonically vacuumed


"On the plus side, a correctly working one does do a cute little sneeze a few seconds after shutdown"

 

[LS4me]

So, a design that is simpler and requires less maintenance to do the job is somehow "rudimentary?"

If you want an over complicated PCV design, get a BMW. www.bimmerworld.com/Engine/Crankcase-Vent-Systems-Valves-and-Hoses/
Those things are a major pain to replace, and have to be replaced more often than our cooling systems (they suffer the same plastic problems we have, but have no failsafe cooling to protect the engine). On the plus side, a correctly working one does do a cute little sneeze a few seconds after shutdown.

The updated "breathing" of the N55 must have changed things. Here's my $38 replacement:

On a side note, I'm quite surprised that replacement parts for my 535i's aren't that expensive at all. And my dealer betters the prices of the independent about a mile away. Heck, my net cost for a dealer oil change is only $10 (they do it for $99 and parts would cost me $89; it takes a LOT of oil)! After about 60K miles (40K on the 2012 and 25K on the 2014) I couldn't be happier. We just did a 5600+ road trip (we were in your neck of the woods for a "fly-by") and the car said I averaged 29.8mpg. I did a hand calculation and got over 32mpg! Not bad considering my driving style!

Even though the BMW is built to a much higher quality I do miss the LS. It was fun to drive, but when I discovered I had the last 4 good (Motorcracft) shocks, the writing was on the wall. Kudos to you guys that can keep your LSes on the road and repaired correctly!

 

[joegr]

The updated "breathing" of the N55 must have changed things. Here's my $38 replacement...

Glad to know they made improvements over the E46. The parts cost wasn't an issue, all the work that it took to get to it to replace it was (remove alternator, power steering pump, oil filter housing, ...). Also, it had several connections, and all were potential leak points.

 

[Robb15033]

having a puff of smoke at the drivers side fire wall area but not all the time just some transparent heat fumes can be seen

Ran two sets of techron fuel system cleaner before this inspection and started running some lucas so I can imagine a little excess at the cats but not overly stated as there is a vac wistle at shut down but whats the best approach to pvc cleaning im watching some vids that state crankcase fumes can be deadly over pressurizing the seals

Get yourself a CATCH Can ASAP.Steeda unit is cheap, JDM, more expensive

 

[joegr]

 

[oddball]

Always fun to hear an aussie explain something.
What I find interesting about direct injection is the lack of gas in the intake track means the intake valve will run hotter and there's no gas to help dissolve the oil. Add increased blowby with turbos and seems like the PCV could use any help possible. The can I added on my Stinger catches about a tablespoon of oil every 250 miles. The stock valve cover doesn't have much to it - looks like a setup similar to the LS but smaller volume. Our '16 Volvo has a rather large and complex separator with a built-in drain to the crankcase, which is good because you can't intercept the PCV flow. I should add one to the Cutlass - the intake valves are crapped over every time I tear down that engine (cause or effect here? that's a long discussion....)
But, on the LS? Pretty pointless. My intake valves had very little buildup @ 145k miles.

 

[Aqualung]

Note also that there is a set of gaskets between the metal parts of the intake and the plastic part. These seem to be the ones that fail when people are having intake air leaks, not the metal ones between the intake and the block. These are not available from Ford.

Where exactly are these gaskets you’re talking about? I think I have a vacuum leak and this sounds like a place I haven’t checked.. want to check everything I can before I take a look at the intake manifold gaskets (the ones you mean when you said “the metal ones between the intake and the block”?).

Here’s my post: 02 3.9L LS troubleshoot

 

[Aqualung]

Where exactly are these gaskets you’re talking about? I think I have a vacuum leak and this sounds like a place I haven’t checked.. want to check everything I can before I take a look at the intake manifold gaskets (the ones you mean when you said “the metal ones between the intake and the block”?).

Here’s my post: 02 3.9L LS troubleshoot

Is this where you’re taking about?