Pesky Gremlins

[Needsanswers]

Ive got a 2004 LS with 225,000 miles.

Upon startup almost every day except those few mornings that its been hot this year the car starts with a terrible idle. It revs from 500ish up to around 1,200 to 1,500 every second and the pedal is unresponsive.

The only remedy I've found is immediately turning the car off and back on while simultaneously pressing the gas and very carefully getting it to shoot up to around 3,000 steady and holding it there, (as any movement of the pedal from here results in eradic behavior) while slowy letting it figure itself out and increase in rpms. As it starts to rise on its own i let go of the pedal slightly to balace it back out, eventually ending up at around 1,800 and once i see the temp gauge start to move its usually fine.

This can not be HEALTHY.

I tried replacing number 4 coil as ive read it can throw codes for throttle body.

Speaking of which, it has codes for throttle body, forcing limited rpms as well as trans range sensor circuit high imput.

PLEASE ADVISE!!! Ive got a whole coil set on the way. This is my first encounter with Lincolns.

 

[DuKeNoMaD]

Do you have any codes? That would be helpful....but as you are second gen. I would check your throttle position sensor and the drive by wire module...but that's just a wild guess with no codes ect..

 

[AmsterDutch]

Ive got a 2004 LS with 225,000 miles.

Upon startup almost every day except those few mornings that its been hot this year the car starts with a terrible idle. It revs from 500ish up to around 1,200 to 1,500 every second and the pedal is unresponsive.

The only remedy I've found is immediately turning the car off and back on while simultaneously pressing the gas and very carefully getting it to shoot up to around 3,000 steady and holding it there, (as any movement of the pedal from here results in eradic behavior) while slowy letting it figure itself out and increase in rpms. As it starts to rise on its own i let go of the pedal slightly to balace it back out, eventually ending up at around 1,800 and once i see the temp gauge start to move its usually fine.

This can not be HEALTHY.

I tried replacing number 4 coil as ive read it can throw codes for throttle body.

Speaking of which, it has codes for throttle body, forcing limited rpms as well as trans range sensor circuit high imput.

PLEASE ADVISE!!! Ive got a whole coil set on the way. This is my first encounter with Lincolns.

First and foremost if you're serious about keeping your LS you should order a OBDII adapter and download FORSCAN program on your windows laptop for free ...Now after that without throwing parts at it ...you could disconnect the MAF sensor before you start the car...its good to start with the simpler things first ...see if the car idles differently after you unplug the MAF Sensor ...premium gas and some redline fuel treatment wouldn't hurt...report back after you replace all spart plugs and Coil Over Plugs ...20lbs. Ft. for spark plugs gap them correctly also
Spark Plugs

Printable View (19 KB)

Material
Item Specification
Silicone Brake Caliper Grease and Dielectric Compound
XG-3-A ESE-M1C171-A
Removal and Installation

1. Remove the ignition coils. For additional information, refer to Ignition Coil-On-Plug in this section.

1. NOTE: Use compressed air to remove any foreign material from the spark plug well before removing the spark plugs.
   
   Remove the 8 spark plugs.
   • To install, tighten to 27 Nm (20 lb-ft).

1. Inspect the spark plugs. For additional information, refer to Section 303-00 .

1. NOTE: Clean the spark plugs with a wire brush or a professional spark plug cleaner (follow the manufacturer's instructions).
   
   To install, reverse the removal procedure.
   • Adjust the plug gap as necessary.
   • Apply a light film of silicone brake caliper grease and dielectric compound to the inside of the coil boots before installation.

• 
  
  

 

[Needsanswers]

I have tried starting it with the MAF disconnected and it runs, but worse.

Once it gets up to operating temp it idles perfectly, however is very slow to increase its rpm. I can mash the gas pedal to the floor and it isnt as responsive as it should be. It will get up there, but i havent pushed it much past 3,000 rmp in neutral.

I will add that it is a v6 if that makes any serious differences.

How does one check the throttle position sensor? Ive read that on the 04s you can replace the TPS independent of the throttle body but that it is not advised.

Here are my codes after driving about 5000 miles. I cleared them all last night and the CEL came on at the end of the trip but all autoparts stores were closed so i couldnt see what came back up.

Replacing coils and plugs now, will check data both before and after.

Thanks for all the replies!!!

 

[Needsanswers]

Codes before are:
2195
0420
0708
2107
2110
2197
And 0420 again

It was not happy with me trying to upload pictures

 

[Needsanswers]

By the way, i do plan on keeping this car, as ive hated on fords my whole life yet, this is one of the best driving and most comfortable cars ive owned. My hat goes off to this car and i will be buying more in the future.

 

[joegr]

... however is very slow to increase its rpm. I can mash the gas pedal to the floor and it isnt as responsive as it should be. It will get up there, but i havent pushed it much past 3,000 rmp in neutral....

This part is normal for all 2nd gen LSes, fully functional or otherwise. In neutral or park, you are limited to 3K RPM max, and it is very slow to get there. Throttle response should be normal in drive or reverse. It's doubtful that the TPS is any part of your problem, but I suppose not impossible.

 

[Needsanswers]

This part is normal for all 2nd gen LSes, fully functional or otherwise. In neutral or park, you are limited to 3K RPM max, and it is very slow to get there. Throttle response should be normal in drive or reverse. It's doubtful that the TPS is any part of your problem, but I suppose not impossible.

Thanks for the info and peace of mind Joe, yeaterday i replaced all coils and plugs and obviously removed the intake. Upon doing so i found a broken wire to the passenger side intake running valve as well as a broke screw on the TPS.

No local parts stores carried the sensor or connector and couldnt even order it, so with some slight modification to the sensor itself an ignition coil connector (autozone part number 629) fit just fine and i replaced my screws and went along my way. Also its probably worth mentioning that i went with NGK platinums G-series part number 1304 i believe as well as duralast coils

Took it out for a short drive and it ran fine with no codes yet. The true test will be how god awful it starts this morning.

Wish me luck!

 

[Needsanswers]

Also, my underhood sticker says 1.29 mm - 1.4 mm or something like that. I did not follow its instructions and instead chose to gap them at 1mm-ish

 

[joegr]

Also, my underhood sticker says 1.29 mm - 1.4 mm or something like that. I did not follow its instructions and instead chose to gap them at 1mm-ish

1mm is correct for the V8. Apparently you have the V6 (no runner control on the V8 either). You need to use the correct gap (underhood sticker) for the V6.

 

[Needsanswers]

1mm is correct for the V8. Apparently you have the V6 (no runner control on the V8 either). You need to use the correct gap (underhood sticker) for the V6.

All of the old spark plugs i pulled were at 1mm give or take due to wear which is why i chose to go against the hoods recommendation gap them at 1mm.

It runs fine after its been warmed up for 5 minutes thoughout the rest of the day. However, in the morning it is just absolutely terrible. It sort of surges and drops down to 500 then 400 and i just dont even like to hear or feel it idling that low and shaking so i turn it off and follow what i described further up.

Could the fact that the spark plugs are gapped at 1mm rather than 1.29mm cause it to do that on the first cold start but then run flawlessly afterward? I mean, i drove it for a couple hours last night and got no CEL as well as no problems whatsoever.

 

[Needsanswers]

As of this morning its still doing the surging thing. I could be optimistic and say it tried to start better, but went back to its old habits. There were still no codes that came up though, even after taking it for a short drive after it calmed down.

The intake needs to be removed to replace plugs and coils and its rainy today so it just my luck that id goof up.

 

[joegr]

Your symptoms, having the V6 (should have said that to begin with), are really classic for failure of the elbow to the PCV valve.

 

[AmsterDutch]

As of this morning its still doing the surging thing. I could be optimistic and say it tried to start better, but went back to its old habits. There were still no codes that came up though, even after taking it for a short drive after it calmed down.

The intake needs to be removed to replace plugs and coils and its rainy today so it just my luck that id goof up.

I can't agree more ... it's probably cracked
ntake Manifold -Upper
Removal
1. Disconnect the battery ground cable.
2. Drain the engine cooling system.
3. Remove the engine appearance cover.

4. Remove the air cleaner outlet tube.
5. Disconnect the throttle position (TP) sensor and the idle air control (IAC) solenoid electrical connectors.

6. Disconnect the accelerator and speed control cables.

7. Remove the cable bracket.
1. Remove the bolts.
2. Remove the bracket.

8. Disconnect the throttle body hoses.
1. Disconnect the coolant hoses.
2. Disconnect the positive crankcase ventilation (PCV) hose.
3. Disconnect the vapor purge hose.

 

[Needsanswers]

Your symptoms, having the V6 (should have said that to begin with), are really classic for failure of the elbow to the PCV valve.

Checked all the vac lines and connections first day i got it and its fine unfortunately...

 

[AmsterDutch]

Checked all the vac lines and connections first day i got it and its fine unfortunately...

So that elbow to the PVC Valve is in good order? I just gave you a picture of the PVC tube so you could follow it down...

 

[Needsanswers]

So that elbow to the PVC Valve is in good order? I just gave you a picture of the PVC tube so you could follow it down...

Yes, indeed. Line number 2 in the picture. It wasnt cracked or anything but it was starting to dry out and i replaced it over a month ago

 

[joegr]

Checked all the vac lines and connections first day i got it and its fine unfortunately...

You can't really check that without removing the upper half of the intake. I didn't think you had done that yet?

 

[Needsanswers]

You can't really check that without removing the upper half of the intake. I didn't think you had done that yet?

I hadnt done that, no. But i do have some long, narrow fingers, as well as a V6, which i forgot to mention in the first post. So i can see the PCV valve elbow standing straight up 2 feet away from the car.

 

[Needsanswers]

I took the intake off again today and regapped all the spark plugs to spec and it seemed to run better but had already been warmed up for the day.

The AC control panel had no power. Fantastic. Read that it could just be "the computer", so i will unhook the battery cable tomorrow morning and hook it back up.

Should i touch positive and negative cables together or just unhook negative? Ive read both

Tomorrow will tell

 

[Needsanswers]

You can't really check that without removing the upper half of the intake. I didn't think you had done that yet?

I take my previous post back, i was able to find that it is between the intake and i did not see it. I was not aware it was burried that deep in the engine.

Looks like third time might be the charm

 

[joegr]

I take my previous post back, i was able to find that it is between the intake and i did not see it. I was not aware it was burried that deep in the engine.

Looks like third time might be the charm

You really had me wondering there...
BTW, the V8 has no PCV valve.

 

[AmsterDutch]

Yes, indeed. Line number 2 in the picture. It wasnt cracked or anything but it was starting to dry out and i replaced it over a month ago

J

I took the intake off again today and regapped all the spark plugs to spec and it seemed to run better but had already been warmed up for the day.

The AC control panel had no power. Fantastic. Read that it could just be "the computer", so i will unhook the battery cable tomorrow morning and hook it back up.

Should i touch positive and negative cables together or just unhook negative? Ive read both

Tomorrow will tell

Cylinder Head temperature sensor? Maybe?
LINCOLN > 2002 > LS > 3.0L V6 > Engine > Cylinder Head Temperature Sensor
Price

WVE 5S1547 {#SU2328, XW4F6G004BA, XW4Z6G004BA} Info

 

[AmsterDutch]

I take my previous post back, i was able to find that it is between the intake and i did not see it. I was not aware it was burried that deep in the engine.

Looks like third time might be the charm

Sounds good