"President Bush's lies now a tough sell"

[MonsterMark]

That's a good graph but is pretty much what I would expect when the media drumbeats negativity. I mean come on, when everything you hear and see is negative, of course it affects the way you feel.

Almost everybody I know in business is doing great.

People are living larger and eating better than ever before.

The world view toward terrorism is changing. People are starting to see it for what it is. Savage random attacks on innocent people. As that view changes, opinions about the US will change, for the better.

Bush will appoint a Supreme Court justice or two, we'll get Bin Laden, and economy will continue to grow, we'll pass Social Security reform and young kids will join the GOP to enjoy the fruits of our labor.

All's well. Polls change. Just wait. Bush is too good a President. The truth about what he is accomplishing will come out and people will respond. When people realize the wool that has been pulled over their eyes, there will be a baklash against the Democratic Party. Just wait and see.

 

[MonsterMark]

I agree with you 100% Bryan.

:dancefool :iconcur: :N :dancefool

I was/am tempted to use my power to rectify the situation but to see it have such a wonderful effect on Phil, I'll need to let it stand. When's the last time anyone saw Phil dance and agree with me at the same time?

 

[barry2952]

Bryan,

You need to take off the BuSh goggles. When the housing bubble bursts GWB's house of cards will come crashing down.

Fossten,

When I'm addressing something to Bryan, please try to keep your nose out of it.

 

[fossten]

Bryan,

You need to take off the BuSh goggles. When the housing bubble bursts GWB's house of cards will come crashing down.

Fossten,

When I'm addressing something to Bryan, please try to keep your nose out of it.

That's just like a liberal to try censoring people.

 

[barry2952]

No, you just seem to lack any level of civility. Please mind your own business. When I ask your opinion, you'll know it. Until then please try to refrain from commenting when I ask someone else a question.

 

[JohnnyBz00LS]

Originally Posted by Frogman
Umm.. Ok.

And according to our illustrious president, Saddam was a bad man who had WMD's.

Which is all exactly true.

PROVE IT! Show us the WMDs that Saddam supposedly has / had.

 

[fossten]

PROVE IT! Show us the WMDs that Saddam supposedly has / had.

Ok, guys, I can't help it, this is absolutely retarded! Do you not remember when Saddam Hussein gassed thousands of his OWN PEOPLE? Come on, I don't even have to swing hard to knock this one out of the park! What planet do you live on, honestly???


Saddam's Chemical Weapons Campaign: Halabja, March 16, 1988

Bureau of Public Affairs
Washington, DC
March 14, 2003 (PDF)

[font=Times New Roman,Georgia,Times]S[/font][font=Times New Roman,Georgia,Times]addam Hussein is the first world leader in modern times to have brutally used chemical weapons against his own people. His goals were to systematically terrorize and exterminate the Kurdish population in northern Iraq, to silence his critics, and to test the effectiveness of his chemical and biological weapons. Hussein launched chemical attacks against 40 Kurdish villages and thousands of innocent civilians in 1987-88, using them as testing grounds. The worst of these attacks devastated the city of Halabja on March 16, 1988.[/font]

[font=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]Halabja Casualties[/font]​

• [font=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]5,000 civilians, many of them women, children, and the elderly, died within hours of the attack. 10,000 more were blinded, maimed, disfigured, or otherwise severely and irreversibly debilitated.
  
  [/font]
• [font=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]Thousands died of horrific complications, debilitating diseases, and birth defects in the years after.[/font]

[font=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]Immediate Medical Effects in Halabja[/font][font=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]Chemical Weapons Used[/font]

• [font=Times New Roman,Georgia,Times]Death by asphyxiation[/font]
• [font=Times New Roman,Georgia,Times]Skin burns and blisters[/font]
• [font=Times New Roman,Georgia,Times]Impaired vision, blindness[/font]
• [font=Times New Roman,Georgia,Times]Breathing difficulty, respiratory shutdown[/font]
• [font=Times New Roman,Georgia,Times]Vomiting, diarrhea, digestive shutdown[/font]
• [font=Times New Roman,Georgia,Times]Neurological disorder[/font]
• [font=Times New Roman,Georgia,Times]Convulsions, coma[/font]

[font=Times New Roman,Georgia,Times]Saddam's regime purposefully mixed mustard gas and nerve agents to magnify their initial and long-term effects.[/font]

• [font=Times New Roman,Georgia,Times]Mustard gas, a blistering agent, affects membranes of the nose, throat, and lungs.[/font]
• [font=Times New Roman,Georgia,Times]Nerve agents such as sarin, tabun, and VX attack eyes and respiratory tracts.[/font]
• [font=Times New Roman,Georgia,Times]Chemical weapons contaminate the food and water supplies, soil, and animal populations[/font].

[font=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]Long-term Medical Effects[/font]​

[font=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]Halabja: A Testing Ground[/font]

• [font=Times New Roman,Georgia,Times]Permanent blindness[/font]
• [font=Times New Roman,Georgia,Times]Disfigurement[/font]
• [font=Times New Roman,Georgia,Times]Respiratory, digestive, and neurological disorders[/font]
• [font=Times New Roman,Georgia,Times]Leukemia, lymphoma, and colon, breast, lung, skin, and other cancers[/font]
• [font=Times New Roman,Georgia,Times]Increased miscarriages and infertility[/font]
• [font=Times New Roman,Georgia,Times]Severe congenital malformations and other birth defects[/font]

[font=Times New Roman,Georgia,Times]Iraqi soldiers in protective gear returned to Halabja to study the effectiveness of their weapons and attacks. They divided the city into grids, determining the number and location of the dead and extent of injury. Halabja helped Saddam Hussein gauge the ability of his chemical agents to kill, maim, and terrorize population centers.[/font]

[font=Times New Roman,Georgia,Times]"Iraqi government troops would be surrounding the attack site and they would have chem-bio suits on...included would be doctors and interested observers...they would go in and find out how many people were dead...and how many survived. What ages ...did men, women or children or the elderly suffer more? From there they would shoot the survivors and burn the bodies... "[/font]​

Dr. Christine Gosden, Liverpool University,
who has developed treatment and research programs for Halabja survivors​

 

[JohnnyBz00LS]

Welcome to two decades ago. <---- IRRELEVANT to the WMD question, you know, the WMDs that "justified" the 2003 Iraq war??

 

[fossten]

Welcome to two decades ago. <---- IRRELEVANT to the WMD question, you know, the WMDs that "justified" the 2003 Iraq war??

That's the best you've got? That's your best shot? Come on, pal. You said prove it and I did.

Your statement about the WMDs justifying the Iraq war is irrelevant. The Iraq war was a direct result of Saddam Hussein refusing to comply with UN resolution after UN resolution, and even your lib buddies in Washington agreed with the UN and the US in going into Iraq. It was only after discovering that the WMDs had been moved that you guys started your shrill attacks. Need I remind you that there was evidence found that indicated that the weapons had been hidden and removed from their hiding places?

We're not going to debate WMDs again. We all know they aren't there. But everybody knows that Saddam HAD them b/c he used them. It would be naive to think that he used up all his weapons on the Kurds and had none left! Common sense [should] tell you that.

 

[MAllen82]

It seems like the libs want everyone to close their eyes and count to 10, hoping that the threat of terrorism will go away. Well it won't!! It's been around for too long, and it's nice to finally see a world leader(atleast in my lifetime, I'm only 23) doing something about it besides saying "Shame on you Saddam! Please don't kill millions of your people, or we will have to reduce the amount of money we give a little bit!" I mean please, the only thing that's going to come out of the libs way of thinking, is that when your eyes are closed, and you're busy counting, the terrorists are going to pull your pants down and shove a bomb up your....... And it's amazing to hear that what we do in Iraq is worthless!! How about democratic elections???? Look at the turnout in Iraq to elections compared to America, and we doin't even have the threat of being bombed by some a-hole when we vote. GO DEMOCRACY!!!! JUST WITHOUT THE DEMOCRATS!!!!


ps. what a way to pop my posting cherry!! can I even say that? if not, I apologize and will edit it out...

 

[MonsterMark]

It seems like the libs want everyone to close their eyes and count to 10, hoping that the threat of terrorism will go away. Well it won't!! It's been around for too long, and it's nice to finally see a world leader(atleast in my lifetime, I'm only 23) doing something about it besides saying "Shame on you Saddam! Please don't kill millions of your people, or we will have to reduce the amount of money we give a little bit!" I mean please, the only thing that's going to come out of the libs way of thinking, is that when your eyes are closed, and you're busy counting, the terrorists are going to pull your pants down and shove a bomb up your....... And it's amazing to hear that what we do in Iraq is worthless!! How about democratic elections???? Look at the turnout in Iraq to elections compared to America, and we doin't even have the threat of being bombed by some a-hole when we vote. GO DEMOCRACY!!!! JUST WITHOUT THE DEMOCRATS!!!!


ps. what a way to pop my posting cherry!! can I even say that? if not, I apologize and will edit it out...

Welcome. Keep your comments on target and stay away from personal attacks and you will do just fine here. Again, keep your comments non-personal and generalized. Unfortunately, as people can see, the division between left and right is getting greater and the politics of personal destruction is the reason why. Both sides are guilty but politics in Washington today has become a game of tit-for-tat and one can see that manifesting itself in the discussions here.

Let's show Washington how civil discourse is supposed to look and sound like. Argue your point with passion but be respectful of others and then we can all learn something from each other.

Thanks.

 

[MAllen82]

I do apologizee if this was taken as a personal attack on anyone particular person or persons in this forum! I don't hate any one person, but I do reserve the right to disagree with a group of people vehemently. That being said, I honestly don't believe my remarks were anymore inflammatory than most of the remarks in the thread. However, I do realize that I am a guest on you forum, and again will apologize for any conduct or comments seen as incendiary.

And by the way, how is it that I come here to this forum for advice and tips on my LS, and my first few posts are in the Politics forum? The law student in me will never die. Can you guys ban me from the Politics forum so I can strictly stick to business on this site?? J/K You should probably ban me from this forum just for ever wanting to be a lawyer anyways!!! Again, J/K, my future wife is in Emory Law right now, and I love her for it(read: stay at home and work on the car dad!! Yeah right, I wish......)

 

[barry2952]

You've joined us at the peak of discord in this forum. MonsterMark is just reacting to a recent spate of lively discourse that has frequently gone over the edge.

Both sides have been guilty of name calling and making some fairly hateful statements. I admit to being reactionary when attacked. I also admit, as will Bryan, that we often will post articles just to get a reaction. Much has been said recently about posting articles. It is viewed by some as merely parroting a particular viewpoint. In fact, it is and it plays a large part of the discourse because we are not all master wordsmiths and we rely on professional writers to make our points for us. I see nothing wrong with this format.

I would make a suggestion that we can all assume that a posted piece that starts a conversation is not written by the person that posts it. Mistakes are made. However, I do believe that credit should be given where due.

Due to the fact that the site does not have a spellchecker, please refrain from denegrating someones work because of a spelling error. It's just bad form.

Everyone on the right views me as a lefty but I think I'm much more Conservative on fiscal issues and more Liberal on social issues. Since I am viewed as a lefty I would ask my fellow lefty contibutors to continue the barbs without the blood.

Someone posted a phrase on this web site that really stuck with me.

"An opinion can't be right or wrong, it's just an opinion."

 

[MonsterMark]

That being said, I honestly don't believe my remarks were anymore inflammatory than most of the remarks in the thread. However, I do realize that I am a guest on you forum, and again will apologize for any conduct or comments seen as incendiary.

Mark, as Barry indicated, my comments were not directed at you per se, they were intended as kind of a group comment. Lot's of guys look in on these debates and we want them to feel comfortable in joining in the discussion. The more the merrier. But I also want the newbies to the forum to know the basic rule here. Everything pretty goes and all is fair and love and war but keep the personal attacks out of it. Oh, and grow a thick skin, you'll need it. That being said, I did not find your 'virgin' posts at all inflammatory or personal. It just so happened that your post coincided with some comments I thought were necessary to say to keep the peace and keep the dialogue humming along.

And by the way, how is it that I come here to this forum for advice and tips on my LS, and my first few posts are in the Politics forum? The law student in me will never die. Can you guys ban me from the Politics forum so I can strictly stick to business on this site??

As far as the lawyer thing, I will pray for you. I have two pretty accomplished brothers that are attorneys and practicing law is probably the last thing I would want to do. But I guess guys like you (attorneys) are a necessary evil.

As as far as your personal challenge to resist the allure of the political forum, forget it. It becomes intoxicating and would require a great amount of restraint on your part to 'skip' over it every time you visit the Board. Sorry, but that's the way it is.

 

[MAllen82]

MonsterMark, don't worry, I'm not a practicing lawyer. I'm something even worse. I'm a loan officer. But to my credit, I'm also a small business owner, and co-owner of another business with my brother-in-law. But, please, continue to pray for me Mortgages can be a dirty business.

PS: if you ever want any advice or help with mortgages or real estate investing, please feel free to ask me any questions that you want. If I can't answer it, it'll be good for me to find out the answer for my own personal knmowledge anyways.

PPS: if you are a loan officer, definately contact me, because I'm also a recruiter for Chase, Wells, and a bunch of other banks and mortgage companies.

Typical salesman, always trying to sneak in a sales pitch, right?? haha

 

[MonsterMark]

PPS: if you are a loan officer, definately contact me, because I'm also a recruiter for Chase, Wells, and a bunch of other banks and mortgage companies.

Threadjack.... I have a buddy who owns a mortgage company and I got tired of paying him commission so I became a loan officer myself so I could do my own mortgages. I just do them for myself and family members. I only charge enough so the backside pays for the frontside. But I understand the thrill of 3 points on the back and 1 or 2 on the front.