Prosecutors Using Broad Definition of Hate Crimes

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Prosecutors Using Broad Definition of Hate Crimes

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/23/nyregion/23hate.html?hpw
By ANNE BARNARD

Published: June 22, 2010


In the public’s imagination, the classic hate crime is an assault born of animus against a particular ethnicity or sexual orientation, like the case of the Long Island man convicted in April of killing an Ecuadorean immigrant after hunting for Hispanics to beat up.

But in Queens since 2005, at least five people have been convicted of, or pleaded guilty to, committing a very different kind of hate crime — singling out elderly victims for nonviolent crimes like mortgage fraud because they believed older people would be easy to deceive and might have substantial savings or home equity.

And this month, Queens prosecutors charged two women with stealing more than $31,000 from three elderly men they had befriended separately after noticing them walking alone on Woodhaven Boulevard, using their credit to pay for dental work and, in one case, asking for money to buy a kidney on the black market. The women, Gina L. Miller, 39, and Sylvia Johns, 23, of Flushing, were charged with grand larceny as a hate crime.
This approach, which is being closely watched by prosecutors around the state, has won Queens prosecutors stiffer sentences, including prison for criminals who could otherwise go free, even after draining an elderly person’s savings. Without a hate crime, theft of less than $1 million carries no mandatory prison time; with it, the thief must serve for a year and may face 25.

The legal thinking behind the novel method is that New York’s hate crimes statute does not require prosecutors to prove defendants “hate” the group the victim belongs to, merely that they commit the crime because of some belief, correct or not, they hold about the group.
“Criminals that prey on the elderly, they love the elderly — this is their source of wealth,” said Kristen A. Kane, a Queens assistant district attorney.

Led by Ms. Kane, who runs a specialized elder fraud unit, the efforts have made the Queens district attorney, Richard A. Brown, a leader in finding new uses for hate crime laws, prosecutors in other jurisdictions say. Scott Burns, executive director of the National District Attorneys’ Association, said he had not heard of another office using hate crimes as Queens does.
Neither had Kate Hogan, president of the state District Attorneys Association. But she looked into the efforts after hearing about it from a reporter, called it “an epiphany” and said she would suggest it to the group’s committee on best practices. Some New York prosecutors, who asked not to be named because they did not intend to criticize colleagues, said that while the approach intrigued them, they were waiting to see if convictions were overturned on appeal before trying it.

The strategy has never been tested in appellate court; many of those charged have pleaded guilty, waiving their right to appeal. But Queens trial judges have upheld it against defense lawyers who argue that the hate crime charges are inappropriate.

Some people concerned about the prevalence of more classically understood bigotry say that new uses of the hate crime law could ultimately dilute its power. The main purpose of the law, said Steven Freeman, legal affairs director at the Anti-Defamation League, is to stiffen penalties for crimes that inflict additional fear on marginalized groups like ethnic or religious minorities or gays; tougher penalties for crimes against the elderly, pregnant women or children can be imposed with separate “vulnerable victims” laws.

New York’s law is ambiguous. It says prosecutors must prove only that a crime was committed “because of a belief or perception regarding the race, color, national origin, ancestry, gender, religion, religious practice, age, disability or sexual orientation of a person.”

But the language that opens the legislation clearly focuses on hate: “Crimes motivated by invidious hatred toward particular groups not only harm individual victims but send a powerful message of intolerance and discrimination to all members of the group to which the victim belongs.”
For Ms. Kane, there is no debate. “We don’t have a whole lot of tools,” she said. “We should utilize what the legislature has given us.”
It all started with Sunshine. That was the nickname of Nancy Jace, who bilked five elderly men out of $250,000, pretending to romance them and persuading them to pay for fictitious family emergencies. Ms. Kane was frustrated when Ms. Jace, 37, pleaded guilty in 2004 and served just six months in jail.

When a similar defendant came along, Ms. Kane had an idea. Shirley Miller, 43, who hoodwinked four elderly men out of $500,000, became the first New Yorker charged with grand larceny as a hate crime against the elderly. She pleaded guilty and served four months, but would have faced one to three years if she had not paid $175,000 in restitution. In 2006, Sherry Kaslov, 30, pleaded guilty to similar charges; she served four months and was hit with 10 years of probation.

Those sentences may not sound huge, Ms. Kane said, but the hate charge gave her extra leverage in plea bargaining. By winning felony pleas and probation, prosecutors ensured that repeat offenders would receive strong sentences.

The cases kept coming. In 2006, Natasha Marks, 20, was convicted of swindling more than $1 million from an 86-year-old man as a hate crime, including taking out a $550,000 mortgage on his house; a fugitive, she faces two to six years. Wando Delmaro was sentenced to 10 years after pleading guilty to a hate crime: posing as a water-company employee and distracting elderly people while accomplices burglarized them.
The next year in Brooklyn, a high-profile case bolstered Ms. Kane. Michael Sandy, a gay man, died after robbers chased him into traffic. One defendant testified that he was gay. The judge ruled that he could still be charged with a hate crime since prosecutors said he went after Mr. Sandy believing gay men were easier to rob. Jurors convicted him but later complained that they did not think the hate crime applied.

Then there was Alexandra Gilmore, 37, who took $800,000 from Artee McKoy, 93, a retired barber and old friend of her late father who had Alzheimer’s disease. She stole his house and tricked him into refinancing another, taking the money and eventually sending both properties into foreclosure. She pleaded guilty last year and is serving two to six years.
Maria Thompson, Mr. McKoy’s daughter, wanted Ms. Gilmore to get even more time. Her father died in 2008, and she is still struggling in court to get control of his estate. In the meantime, the house where she grew up is foreclosed and padlocked. She cannot enter to sort her father’s possessions or find a photograph to remember him by. She has no idea if she and her four siblings will ultimately inherit any equity in the home, which had been fully paid off before the scheme.

Mr. McKoy’s own kindness inspired the scheme, said Ms. Thompson, 69, who works as a greeter at Wal-Mart. When Ms. Gilmore’s father died, he lent her money to avoid foreclosure of her own house, revealing that he had savings, “and then she ripped him off,” Ms. Thompson said.
Ms. Kane got another crack at Ms. Jace. She is now serving 8 to 24 years for defrauding a series of landlords, a sentence stiffened by her plea to the earlier hate crime. Ms. Kane did not charge one this time.
“Most victims were elderly,” she said a bit ruefully, “but not all.”

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Not that I think these swindlers shouldn't be punished but calling these "hate" crimes is a misconcieved and makes the law look orwellian and dishonest.

Laws should be passed that address this type of crime in an honest way instead of the off label lawyer approach.

The swindlers don't hate their victims in any sense.
They just see them as easy prey for their schemes.
 
The idea of "hate crimes" is Orwellian and tyrannical; as demonstrated by this further abuse of the idea by defining down what constitutes a "hate crime".

Hate crimes are an attempt to outlaw thoughts; a notion that should not have any place in our court system.
 
The idea of "hate crimes" is Orwellian and tyrannical; as demonstrated by this further abuse of the idea by defining down what constitutes a "hate crime".

Hate crimes are an attempt to outlaw thoughts; a notion that should not have any place in our court system.

I believe there are bona fide hate crimes.
A woman was leaving a gay lesbian bar here and was attacked by a group of people and lost her eye.
They didn't know her and their crime was based solely on her sexual orientation.
There was also a case or 2 of a black guy being deliberately dragged by a car and white people being attacked solely for being white in a minority neighborhood.

My beef is more with the dishonest approach of the prosecutors in making the law into a lie because it's a "tool" for them to use.
 
I believe there are bona fide hate crimes.

Hate is not and should never be a 'crime'. Only actions should be crimes. To attempt to turn mere sentiment into a crime is foolish and dangerous; it opens up society to arbitrary power by the government.

A woman was leaving a gay lesbian bar here and was attacked by a group of people and lost her eye.
They didn't know her and their crime was based solely on her sexual orientation.

Their motivation was based on her sexual orientation. However, their actions are the crime.

You are equating a "hate crime" with "crime" and they are not the same. Two separate charges are filed; one for battery and one for the "hate crime".

If you miss that distinction you misunderstand the point.
 
My beef is more with the dishonest approach of the prosecutors in making the law into a lie because it's a "tool" for them to use.

I would agree with you on that. However, these type of abuses are the logical consequence of attempting to turn certain thoughts into crimes.
 
Hate is not and should never be a 'crime'. Only actions should be crimes. To attempt to turn mere sentiment into a crime is foolish and dangerous; it opens up society to arbitrary power by the government.



Their motivation was based on her sexual orientation. However, their actions are the crime.

You are equating a "hate crime" with "crime" and they are not the same. Two separate charges are filed; one for battery and one for the "hate crime".

If you miss that distinction you misunderstand the point.


Their actions are the manifestation of their hatred.
The hate is where the seed of the crime begins.
 
Their actions are the manifestation of their hatred.
The hate is where the seed of the crime begins.

Their actions are what have consequences and their actions are what are criminal. Up until the point of action government should not have any say.

Motivation is a factor, but motivation is not crime. The whole of judicial thought is built around the view that actions are what constitute a crime; not thought. Criminalizing thought is nothing more the emotionally appealing foolishness that becomes very dangerous when turned into law.

Do you really not see the totalitarian implications of criminalizing thought? The story you cite gives a prime example of it.

Are you simply looking to be contentious?
 
Their actions are what have consequences and their actions are what are criminal. Up until the point of action government should not have any say.

Motivation is a factor, but motivation is not crime. The whole of judicial thought is built around the view that actions are what constitute a crime; not thought. Criminalizing thought is nothing more the emotionally appealing foolishness that becomes very dangerous when turned into law.

Do you really not see the totalitarian implications of criminalizing thought? The story you cite gives a prime example of it.

Are you simply looking to be contentious?

The crime is in the action but the motivation adds some distinction as to why.
I'm not saying we criminalize thought.

As an aside how would you characterize christians being run out and killed in the middle east.
Would that qualify as a hate crime?
 
How do you know that? And more importantly, how can you prove that?

As a woman was coming out of a gay bar a group of people started a provocation, words were exchanged which escalated into a stabbing where the woman lost an eye.

What conclusion would you draw?

I am not a court of law. I'm only expressing an opinion and don't need to prove things beyond a reasonable doubt.
 
The idea of "hate crimes" is Orwellian and tyrannical; as demonstrated by this further abuse of the idea by defining down what constitutes a "hate crime".

Hate crimes are an attempt to outlaw thoughts; a notion that should not have any place in our court system.

Awesome, a fellow Orwell fan! You hit the nail on the head brother!
 
As a woman was coming out of a gay bar a group of people started a provocation, words were exchanged which escalated into a stabbing where the woman lost an eye.

What conclusion would you draw?

I am not a court of law. I'm only expressing an opinion and don't need to prove things beyond a reasonable doubt.
It doesn't matter what conclusion (another word for OPINION) you draw - what matters is what you can PROVE.

Hate speech laws allow people to make value judgments on what other people were THINKING. That's morally wrong and impossible.
 
shagdrum; said:
Hate is not and should never be a 'crime'. Only actions should be crimes. To attempt to turn mere sentiment into a crime is foolish and dangerous; it opens up society to arbitrary power by the government.QUOTE]

Hate is not a crime and I never said it was.
I don't know why you made a leap to saying hate in and of itself is being criminalized.
Law enforcement loves to make up multiple charges for the same actions so they have lots of plea bargaining leverage.
Things like driving a car, using a cell phone,carrying a gun, crossing state lines, mail fraud, wire fraud, using the internet etc in the commission of a felony are always tacked on to the real charges.

"Well we'll drop charges 2 3 and 4 if you plead guilty to charge 1"

It's the law enforcement method of operation.
The hate crime statutes are a tool for them just like other expanded crime statutes.
 
It doesn't matter what conclusion (another word for OPINION) you draw - what matters is what you can PROVE.

Hate speech laws allow people to make value judgments on what other people were THINKING. That's morally wrong and impossible.

Unless they come out and say so I can't get inside someone's head to prove exactly why they committed a crime.

Hate speech is like some judge's definition of pornography in that one knows it when one sees it.
Pornography is legal but restricted from being displayed in public to those who don't want to see it.
The same can be said to apply to hate speech.
 
Unless they come out and say so I can't get inside someone's head to prove exactly why they committed a crime.

Hate speech is like some judge's definition of pornography in that one knows it when one sees it.
Pornography is legal but restricted from being displayed in public to those who don't want to see it.
The same can be said to apply to hate speech.
Opinions like that are highly subjective. I don't want my freedom put in the hands of some zealot who has his own ideas about what I was thinking. It's a slippery slope that only ends in totalitarianism.
 
I don't know why you made a leap to saying hate in and of itself is being criminalized.

I didn't. The idea of hate crimes does that on it's own.
 
Their motivation was based on her sexual orientation. However, their actions are the crime.

You are equating a "hate crime" with "crime" and they are not the same. Two separate charges are filed; one for battery and one for the "hate crime".

If you miss that distinction you misunderstand the point.

Motivation is an important factor to consider in any crime though, is it not?

We punish people for thoughts all the time. Consider the difference between a premeditated murder and one that is not premeditated. The difference is only in a thought or simple preparation. If one is motivated to commit crimes based upon a persons sexual orientation, does that not suggest that he poses a greater risk to re-offend, especially to a minority group, than say, a person who was motivated by circumstance?

Though, you cannot make the leap to saying hate is criminalized, since it is only criminal behavior in conjunction with hate that is being criminalized. Of course you could get into tons of semantics and say that most violent crimes have some element of hatred for their victim..... but that is a whole different story.

Still though, proving a hate crime still requires a person to meet the same burden of proof as any other crime, and it is rather difficult to prove thoughts, especially since only one person will truly know it. I have a hard time accepting guilty findings in any but the most blatant hate crimes, since I don't believe mere circumstance can prove anything beyond a reasonable doubt.

Honestly I don't see anything wrong with hate crime legislation. I just find it troubling that people are so often found guilty of it, since it should inherently be incredibly difficult to prove.
 
Motivation is an important factor to consider in any crime though, is it not?

Yes, I think I already pointed that out. Motivation is a factor. It is not a separate crime.

We punish people for thoughts all the time. Consider the difference between a premeditated murder and one that is not premeditated.

We are not punishing motivation though. We are punishing the action. The motivation simply speaks to the degree of punishment for the action.

Though, you cannot make the leap to saying hate is criminalized, since it is only criminal behavior in conjunction with hate that is being criminalized.

When they make the hate a separate crime, that is criminalizing hate.
 
Yes, I think I already pointed that out. Motivation is a factor. It is not a separate crime.



We are not punishing motivation though. We are punishing the action. The motivation simply speaks to the degree of punishment for the action.



When they make the hate a separate crime, that is criminalizing hate.

But there has to be a crime accompanying the hate for there to be an offence.
Mere hatred in and of itself is not enough to get arrested unless you're causing a disturbance.
 
But there has to be a crime accompanying the hate for there to be an offence.

It is an EXTRA crime you are accused of. Not simply a factor to determine the degree of the actual crime.

Answer me this, what Right is violated by simply hating someone?
 
Yes, I think I already pointed that out. Motivation is a factor. It is not a separate crime.

We are not punishing motivation though. We are punishing the action. The motivation simply speaks to the degree of punishment for the action.

Some jurisdictions have hate crimes listed as different varieties (degrees) of the same offense. When a person is charged at a trial for multiple crimes for the same offense, it is generally a tactic to give juries a lesser crime to convict the perpetrator on. This serves two purposes. Generally a Defendant may worry a jury will convict them of a serious crime because they believe he is almost guilty enough, so the Defendant will allow multiple charges. Prosecutors like this as well, because they don't want to allow nearly guilty people to go free, though, still it is at the discretion of the Defendant whether to allow multiple charges or not. This is not punishing them separately for the act and the thought. It is also, as mentioned earlier, a tactic to get offenders to plea bargain. Jurisdictions that criminalize hate crimes as a separate offense, that is an entirely different matter, but generally, "hate crimes" only carry a minor penalty to tack onto the crime they are committed in conjunction with, and there can be no finding of a hate crime without a guilty finding on a criminal act. Though, saying it is a separate offense is kind of misleading as well, since it is generally a separate hearing to determine whether or not to elevate a crime that a person was found guilty of to a hate crime, so it is kind of like the person is still being charged with the same offense, it is just a consideration in sentencing, kind of an optional step in-between. As you know, motivation plays a KEY role in sentencing. Therefore, the motivational factor of a hate crime does in a way add a degree of standardization in sentencing. Anything that rules out bias or unequal discretion is a good thing in my opinion. This is why we have degrees of a crime in the first place and states of mind for consideration.

When they make the hate a separate crime, that is criminalizing hate.

No. It is criminalizing a crime committed due to hatred of a group. The hate in and of itself is nonpunishable. There needs to be criminal behavior accompanying the hate to make it a crime. Therefore, they are not criminalizing hate.
 
No. It is criminalizing a crime committed due to hatred of a group. The hate in and of itself is nonpunishable. There needs to be criminal behavior accompanying the hate to make it a crime. Therefore, they are not criminalizing hate.
Hate speech laws have criminalized hate. Speech is protected under the First Amendment, but hate speech is punishable. Therefore, hate is a crime.
 
Fossten, you're wasting your time. They aren't interested in even considering the idea; only in dismissing it.
 
Hate speech laws have criminalized hate. Speech is protected under the First Amendment, but hate speech is punishable. Therefore, hate is a crime.
Telling a rabid group of KKK members to go out and 'lets string us up some -------' isn't allowed under 'free speech'. Isn't that the hate speech that you are referring too Foss? Hate speech that includes acting out a crime - that is where it crosses the line - once again, in conjunction with committing a crime... I can say I hate the KKK and it isn't a crime. Just hating, or declaring hate for someone or some group isn't a crime - it is the grouping it with a criminal activity that changes it, as FIND pointed out.
 
Hate speech laws have criminalized hate. Speech is protected under the First Amendment, but hate speech is punishable. Therefore, hate is a crime.

In law, hate speech is any speech, gesture or conduct, writing, or display which is forbidden because it may incite violence or prejudicial action against or by a protected individual or group, or because it disparages or intimidates a protected individual or group.

First Amendment does not extend to behavior which will create a clear and present danger, see Schenck vs US and Debs vs US for good examples of the definition of clear and present danger. Hate is not punishable as a crime in and of itself. Only when said hate is used to do harm or incite harm against another person.

Hate speech will often only be pursued in civil matters, and it does not even encompass as much negative behavior as libel or slander.

Fossten, you're wasting your time. They aren't interested in even considering the idea; only in dismissing it.

I have considered the idea, but I am not going to make the same leap between criminalizing hate crimes and criminalizing hate as you are, because they are not the same thing. Fossten demonstrated a clear and convincing argument as to why he believes hate is criminalized, and it was on a different level from hate crimes, and honestly, I have some tendency to agree with him. Or at least I will admit, there is a closer link between criminalizing hate speech and criminalizing hate.

You hate Obama right? Is that a crime? Let's not get into any discussions about Obama McChrystal cause, that is a whole other annoying issue. That is more of an ego fight.
 

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