Re-Pin or Re-Wire???? Your Opinion Matters...

[96_Lincoln_LSC]

So just so I have this right. You started a thread asking which way to go. You added a poll and said our opinion counts. The leader in the poll is very clearly showing rewire was the more popular choice. Even in the people that posted its a 6 to 3 in favor of rewire.

So in essence, our opinions DONT matter and the poll was a complete waste of time. Superb.

OK to be fair, there were two polls, one on this site and one on TCCoA.com
The combined totals minus my actual vote (only voted cause I wanted to see the total poll., was actually a tie. there were 4 re-pin and 8 re-wire on this site at this time 08:00 PM and on the other site its 3 to 1
Total are:
Re-Pin = 7 Minus my vote.
Re-Wire = 7

After reviewing the documentation, and after speaking with M-Maker, and DLF. We agreed that with the write up I have and the other documentation on the web, we should be able to sucessfully swap the trans and re-pin the harness saving time and money.
I ask that anyone who questions this to find fault in my post prior and if there is a mistake thne please by all means point it out as this is a source of valuable information to anyone in the future who is considering this challenge.
Thanks for all comments and opinions. and yes including yours Laser...

Bill

 

[davidm]

I found this thread useful, not all of us are "professional" auto technicians.

These trans shops want to screw you all they can and I'm sure if you walk in with this info, it pisses them off.
This will help me weed out the shops that want the job or not.

 

[mistermaclincoln]

This has been very helpful since I am in the same boat but I like the rewire method but I understand your time frame. The best to you, I am sure it will work out.

 

[NoLimit95]

Bill listen, I'm all for a re-pin if it is done the first time correctly and it's going to be guaranteed.

DLF, I am well aware of the diagram being reversed. As mentioned by me once, it's 10 years old and because it was reversed, it burned up a lot of solenoids and confused a lot of people.

By the looks of the re-pin on paper, it seems to be right and it's your choice Bill. It's your car and your money. I wished you lived very close to me. If so, I would get you an internal harness from a boneyard around here and do all of the electrical internal swap for you for ZERO because it's elementary simple to do.

A lot of your cost was unnecessary. Buying a plate that you could have drilled yourself with 2 different bits on top of a cardboard box IMO was a waste of money. Buying new accumulators and springs for a trans with only 60K to 70K was a waste. I understand this came as a kit but a J-Mod done yourself with new gaskets only cost $5.00 + shipping for the gaskets.

$120.00 for a J-Mod kit was completely uncalled for. Maxx sells the 2 gaskets needed that are already prepared for the J-Mod for under $3.00 each. He also sells the front and rear seals which is all you really needed for right at $10.00 each and after shipping, you would have had everything you needed for the J-Mod for, IIRC... $28 to $29. The 98 already has updated accumulators and springs. That's one of the main reasons (besides doing away with the one way clutch and having a much more improved friction material / TC) to buy a 98+ trans.

$80 for new seals? Someone is a ripoff. Not sure who it is but that's crazy and I know these seals didn't come from Maxx, which has OEM. You only needed 2 seals, unless the one you have coming on the pan is damaged because it is meant to be reused. I'm just seeing a lot of expensive parts (raising your cost) that weren't needed being bought for this trans swap.

I got lucky as I mentioned to you over the phone with the help I got when I swapped mine. I wasn't asked to pay anything but after offering and offering, he finally accepted $100 for the help. He (being certified) just likes doing the work and no lift was involved. He really done most of the work or should I say the hardest parts of it. My trans had 68K and only cost me $250 delivered to my door. Again, I got lucky on that because he lived about 10 min from me.

Doug charging $250 seems fair to me because he has a lift, transmission jack (I'm assuming) and all tools needed. Yours could have been done for $510 and this includes J-Mod, seals and shipping for all plus $250 labor = $760 and then the Merc V to fill it up with.

Bottom line, when you get it done and if pinned correct, you will love the difference. It's like night and day and please do not leave out any springs in the 2-3 accumulator. I don't think you'll have the car at the strip and your gears with the J-Mod alone will engage with quickness without leaving out springs. If I left one out, it would be the bottom spring on the 1-2 and some don't like it when they do it and some do. I did and KK recommended to me and stressed it for me to leave the bottom spring in but I took it out and I liked my 2nd gear.

All I can say is good luck with your re-pin and installation. I hope it works out well for you for years to come and with all this new stuff you bought, I don't see why it shouldn't outlast the car itself.

BTW, not trying to start any arguments with anyone and not bashing anyone for selling overpriced parts. I love money too. You asked for opinions and you got a few. Some helpful, some not but I wish you all the luck and please inform us on how it goes when it's completed.

 

[96_Lincoln_LSC]

Bill listen, I'm all for a re-pin if it is done the first time correctly and it's going to be guaranteed.

DLF, I am well aware of the diagram being reversed. As mentioned by me once, it's 10 years old and because it was reversed, it burned up a lot of solenoids and confused a lot of people.

By the looks of the re-pin on paper, it seems to be right and it's your choice Bill. It's your car and your money. I wished you lived very close to me. If so, I would get you an internal harness from a boneyard around here and do all of the electrical internal swap for you for ZERO because it's elementary simple to do.

A lot of your cost was unnecessary. Buying a plate that you could have drilled yourself with 2 different bits on top of a cardboard box IMO was a waste of money. Buying new accumulators and springs for a trans with only 60K to 70K was a waste. I understand this came as a kit but a J-Mod done yourself with new gaskets only cost $5.00 + shipping for the gaskets.

$120.00 for a J-Mod kit was completely uncalled for. Maxx sells the 2 gaskets needed that are already prepared for the J-Mod for under $3.00 each. He also sells the front and rear seals which is all you really needed for right at $10.00 each and after shipping, you would have had everything you needed for the J-Mod for, IIRC... $28 to $29. The 98 already has updated accumulators and springs. That's one of the main reasons (besides doing away with the one way clutch and having a much more improved friction material / TC) to buy a 98+ trans.

$80 for new seals? Someone is a ripoff. Not sure who it is but that's crazy and I know these seals didn't come from Maxx, which has OEM. You only needed 2 seals, unless the one you have coming on the pan is damaged because it is meant to be reused. I'm just seeing a lot of expensive parts (raising your cost) that weren't needed being bought for this trans swap.

I got lucky as I mentioned to you over the phone with the help I got when I swapped mine. I wasn't asked to pay anything but after offering and offering, he finally accepted $100 for the help. He (being certified) just likes doing the work and no lift was involved. He really done most of the work or should I say the hardest parts of it. My trans had 68K and only cost me $250 delivered to my door. Again, I got lucky on that because he lived about 10 min from me.

Doug charging $250 seems fair to me because he has a lift, transmission jack (I'm assuming) and all tools needed. Yours could have been done for $510 and this includes J-Mod, seals and shipping for all plus $250 labor = $760 and then the Merc V to fill it up with.

Bottom line, when you get it done and if pinned correct, you will love the difference. It's like night and day and please do not leave out any springs in the 2-3 accumulator. I don't think you'll have the car at the strip and your gears with the J-Mod alone will engage with quickness without leaving out springs. If I left one out, it would be the bottom spring on the 1-2 and some don't like it when they do it and some do. I did and KK recommended to me and stressed it for me to leave the bottom spring in but I took it out and I liked my 2nd gear.

All I can say is good luck with your re-pin and installation. I hope it works out well for you for years to come and with all this new stuff you bought, I don't see why it shouldn't outlast the car itself.

BTW, not trying to start any arguments with anyone and not bashing anyone for selling overpriced parts. I love money too. You asked for opinions and you got a few. Some helpful, some not but I wish you all the luck and please inform us on how it goes when it's completed.

Terry,
Appreciate any and all comments, this is what makes us all human (well maybe not Laser ) but we all have our very own thought process... anyway. the seals and MercV was the total of the 80.00 I just dont want to have anything sh!t the bed after going though this.. so I spent some money on a few things that may not have been totally nessecary but I will sleep more comfortable at night knowing they are in there and I should not have to deal with anything except for trans fluid swap later on down the road. If I were to have any issues with the trans After the re-pin, then I would already havethe 96 on the ground and can swap the internals out right there if absolutle needed, so we can try the re-pin (I do feel comfortable now with this option) first and if there is any screw ups and burns out a Solenoid, then we can swap in the others from the 96 and reset the harness to factory. seems like a win win for me.. DLF and I got a chance to speak yesterday and hashed out the details and I'm comfortable with what we have agreed to, after speaking in person that is., through Txt, its tough to judge a persons character. Nuff said. Thanks again
Bill

 

[LaserSVT]

If DLF is gonna do the repin then you should have no problems. He knows his chit and is very detail oriented so I am sure it will be done right the first time.

 

[LaserSVT]

Terry,
Appreciate any and all comments, this is what makes us all human (well maybe not Laser )

i'm awsome!!!
no you're not dude don't lie
i'm awsome!!!
i'm drivin around in my mom's ride
i'm awsome!!!
a quarter of my life gone by and
i met all my friends online
i'm awsome!!!
i will run away from a brawl
i'm awsome!!!
there's no voice mail nobody called
i'm awsome!!!
i can't afford to buy eight ball
and i talk to myself
on my facebook wall

you know my pants sag low
even though that went out of style
like ten years ago
spose, i got the swagger of a cripple
i got little biceps,
getting fatter in the middle

and lyrically i'm not the best
physically the opposite of randy
moss and yet so preposterous
feel the awesomeness the most obnoxious
guest up at the sausage fest
oh yes!
the girls are repulsed so i hide
in my hood like i'm joining a cult
uh uhh
i'm as nervous as my cattle dirty curtis
all my writtens are bitten and
all my verses are purchased
me? i'ii never date an actress
got to many back zits
plus my whole home aroma is cat piss
every show i do is poorly
promoted and if you like this
it's cuz my little sister wrote it

i'm awsome!!!
no you're not dude don't lie
i'm awsome!!!
i'm drivin around in my mom's ride
i'm awsome!!!
a quarter of my life gone by and
i met all my friends online
i'm awsome!!!
i will run away from a brawl
i'm awsome!!!
there's no voice mail nobody called
i'm awsome!!!
i can't afford to buy eight ball
and i talk to myself
on my facebook wall

swagger of a cripple

check it out

i'm from maine and i don't hunt nope
and i can't ski
smoke weed but i can't roll blunts
maight be with my wifey
my necjs not icy
eatin' at mcdonalds because subway is pricey

uh and my unibrow is plucked
just ask my mom if i could borrow ten bucks
shes like "for what?
blunt wraps and some heinekens?
you skinny prick, go get a gym membership and vitamins"
i'm like mom please don't blame it on me
i got my bad habits from
you, dad, and aunt steve
my attitudes sour but my futon's sweet
and the hair on my ass it is jumanji

suit untailored, ringtone taylor swift
can't tweet up on my twitter
cuz i haven't done :q:q:q:q
blank account red, body ungroomed
the good thing about me is i'm off stage soon

i'm awsome!!!
no you're not dude don't lie
i'm awsome!!!
i'm drivin around in my mom's ride
i'm awsome!!!
a quarter of my life gone by and
i met all my friends online
i'm awsome!!!
i will run away from a brawl
i'm awsome!!!
there's no voice mail nobody called
i'm awsome!!!
i can't afford to buy eight ball
and i talk to myself
on my facebook wall

futher more i'm cornier than ethynol
cheesier than provolone
i spent years eight to ten living in a motor home
with a ego the size of tim duncan
even though i got :q:q:q:q for brains like a blumpkin
i'm twenty four serving lobster rolls
bacause i spent a decade filling
optimuos and i'm not even the bomb in maine
on my game and only about as sexy as john mccain

 

[96_Lincoln_LSC]

i'm awsome!!!
no you're not dude don't lie
i'm awsome!!!
i'm drivin around in my mom's ride
i'm awsome!!!
a quarter of my life gone by and
i met all my friends online
i'm awsome!!!
i will run away from a brawl
i'm awsome!!!
there's no voice mail nobody called
i'm awsome!!!
i can't afford to buy eight ball
and i talk to myself
on my facebook wall

you know my pants sag low
even though that went out of style
like ten years ago
spose, i got the swagger of a cripple
i got little biceps,
getting fatter in the middle

and lyrically i'm not the best
physically the opposite of randy
moss and yet so preposterous
feel the awesomeness the most obnoxious
guest up at the sausage fest
oh yes!
the girls are repulsed so i hide
in my hood like i'm joining a cult
uh uhh
i'm as nervous as my cattle dirty curtis
all my writtens are bitten and
all my verses are purchased
me? i'ii never date an actress
got to many back zits
plus my whole home aroma is cat piss
every show i do is poorly
promoted and if you like this
it's cuz my little sister wrote it

i'm awsome!!!
no you're not dude don't lie
i'm awsome!!!
i'm drivin around in my mom's ride
i'm awsome!!!
a quarter of my life gone by and
i met all my friends online
i'm awsome!!!
i will run away from a brawl
i'm awsome!!!
there's no voice mail nobody called
i'm awsome!!!
i can't afford to buy eight ball
and i talk to myself
on my facebook wall

swagger of a cripple

check it out

i'm from maine and i don't hunt nope
and i can't ski
smoke weed but i can't roll blunts
maight be with my wifey
my necjs not icy
eatin' at mcdonalds because subway is pricey

uh and my unibrow is plucked
just ask my mom if i could borrow ten bucks
shes like "for what?
blunt wraps and some heinekens?
you skinny prick, go get a gym membership and vitamins"
i'm like mom please don't blame it on me
i got my bad habits from
you, dad, and aunt steve
my attitudes sour but my futon's sweet
and the hair on my ass it is jumanji

suit untailored, ringtone taylor swift
can't tweet up on my twitter
cuz i haven't done :q:q:q:q
blank account red, body ungroomed
the good thing about me is i'm off stage soon

i'm awsome!!!
no you're not dude don't lie
i'm awsome!!!
i'm drivin around in my mom's ride
i'm awsome!!!
a quarter of my life gone by and
i met all my friends online
i'm awsome!!!
i will run away from a brawl
i'm awsome!!!
there's no voice mail nobody called
i'm awsome!!!
i can't afford to buy eight ball
and i talk to myself
on my facebook wall

futher more i'm cornier than ethynol
cheesier than provolone
i spent years eight to ten living in a motor home
with a ego the size of tim duncan
even though i got :q:q:q:q for brains like a blumpkin
i'm twenty four serving lobster rolls
bacause i spent a decade filling
optimuos and i'm not even the bomb in maine
on my game and only about as sexy as john mccain

Wow got exactly what I asked for didn't I? lol
Thanks

 

[DLF]

Just in case anyone else wants to put a '98 4R70W in a '96, here's the diagram I made for the repin. Works fine.

More pics of Bill's stay in my garage to follow.

 

[96_Lincoln_LSC]

Just in case anyone else wants to put a '98 4R70W in a '96, here's the diagram I made for the repin. Works fine.

More pics of Bill's stay in my garage to follow.

Ok The diagram is cleaner looking, however, when you open the harness, looking at the Colors, you'll find the Brown wires in there and there are no colors listing Brown!! on the sheet it says P/Y and P/O.. These are NOT PINK!!! The color is actually Purple but its not a bright Purple. Its more of a gray tone so they kind of looked Brown, the biggest give away was the Stripe. P=Purple.... once we confirmed this in the harness, all was perfect and all matched up.

Doug,
You are the man.. even though the Car was DIRTY...! not all can be perfect DD's... I will work harder to clean it..Lol!
Thanks again.
Bill

 

[DLF]

Where to begin?

All told it took 18 hours.

The first couple of hours were spent waiting for the battery on my Cobra to charge and laughing at Bill's exhaust system.

The numb-nuts prior owner (or so Bill says ) had the mufflers changed and whatever moron did the work WELDED the hangers to the car. No way to remove the exhaust without cutting it. I seriously considered shaking Bill's hand and sending him on his way, but we ended up deciding to cut the exhaust just behind the pumpkin. After we were done, I tacked on a couple of sleeves to get him to an exhaust shop. Unfortunately, my welding skills aren't good enough to complete the patch.

 

[DLF]

And then to the actual task.

Dropped the pumpkin, so I could pull the driveshaft back out of the tranny. And Bill was right, the u-joints were really bad.

Drained the TC and the pan.

Unbolted the starter, got at the top bolt from in front of the K-Member.

Removed the partially installed and cross-threaded bolt for the dipstick tube.

Disconnected the cooler lines. Removed the loose TC nuts. Unbolted the tranny cross-member and tilted the tranny down to get at the top two tranny to engine bolts. Disconnected the tranny wiring and shift cable.

Removed the other 6 bolts holding the tranny and dropped it. I'll let Bill tell you about the condition of the TC.

In the first pic you can see Bill's ingenious anti-corrosion methods.

 

[DLF]

Then we went to work on the '98 tranny. Did the J-Mod and swapped the MLPS.

Slipped in the replacement driveshaft from my '98.

During the reinstall we first discovered that an ear needs to be removed to clear the Gen 1 EGR tube, so we lowered the tranny and cut it off.

Then we cross-threaded a bolt and had to remove the tranny again to chase all of the threads in the block.

Got the tranny in and got almost everything else done, but it was now after mid-night, so we went to sleep.

In the morning we rebolted the pumpkin, bolted on the driveshaft, and welded/reinstalled the exhaust system. Bill had a bunch of fun reconnecting the O2 sensors.

Added fluid and shoveled the driveway.

 

[96_Lincoln_LSC]

And then to the actual task.

Dropped the pumpkin, so I could pull the driveshaft back out of the tranny. And Bill was right, the u-joints were really bad.

Drained the TC and the pan.

Unbolted the starter, got at the top bolt from in front of the K-Member.

Removed the partially installed and cross-threaded bolt for the dipstick tube.

Disconnected the cooler lines. Removed the loose TC nuts. Unbolted the tranny cross-member and tilted the tranny down to get at the top two tranny to engine bolts. Disconnected the tranny wiring and shift cable.

Removed the other 6 bolts holding the tranny and dropped it. I'll let Bill tell you about the condition of the TC.

In the first pic you can see Bill's ingenious anti-corrosion methods.

Yea but at this stage I was able to get the IAC bolt out and corrected... (shortened it) not its nice and tight..
We also elected to re-install the starter bolts all of them.
Things still in order, exhaust repair, possibly a new complete exhaust.., Power Steering pump and Hoses replacement, Then Paying someone with a Lift (umm Cough Cough, Doug) maybe to replace the oil pan gasket.

 

[96_Lincoln_LSC]

Then we went to work on the '98 tranny. Did the J-Mod and swapped the MLPS.

Slipped in the replacement driveshaft from my '98.

During the reinstall we first discovered that an ear needs to be removed to clear the Gen 1 EGR tube, so we lowered the tranny and cut it off.

Then we cross-threaded a bolt and had to remove the tranny again to chase all of the threads in the block.

Got the tranny in and got almost everything else done, but it was now after mid-night, so we went to sleep.

In the morning we rebolted the pumpkin, bolted on the driveshaft, and welded/reinstalled the exhaust system. Bill had a bunch of fun reconnecting the O2 sensors.

Added fluid and shoveled the driveway.

Only really a few things to say bout that..

:bow: :dj: You The Man!!! :headbang: :headbang:

 

[LaserSVT]

Wow guys, that was a bish! Good job on all the work and I feel ya.


SVO dont talk to me any more and I dont know why but it may have something to do with the fact he too had to cut off my first exhaust system to get to anything as the previous idiot welded the hangers and the whole system was one piece. :lol:

When I redid the exhaust I made sure its now sectioned.



DLF, you sir are quite the asset!

 

[driveshaft]

i see the diagram of the 96, would that be the same pinout/wire colors as a 95?

 

[BAD97LSC]

yes it would

 

[96_Lincoln_LSC]

I am resurrecting this thread in honor of DLF and the hard work and witty comments and the good time we had at his home in January of 2011. RIP. you are already missed.

 

[96_Lincoln_LSC]

Bumping this post again for DLF.
Thank you Brother for all your help and laughter.