Rear Upper Spring perch?
- Thread starter 90boss
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dnsherrill
Dedicated LVC Member
i used snowflake centers, bend out the flanges, put a small bolt through it to center it on the bracket- basically duplicate the top of the air_spring. Actually I used a cut air spring.top attached to a snowflake
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I later removed the rubber isolator to lower it a bit
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I later removed the rubber isolator to lower it a bit
98lincmk7lsc
Dedicated LVC Member
If someone can get me the dimensions, I can make you a set. I just picked up DLF's lathe today.
sprocket
Well-Known LVC Member
Mine are pretty cool. I should have taken pictures before installation. I made mine at work out of delrin then we made some modifications when installing. That little stud on top is a hole in my delrin perch with a bolt sticking up through it. Then I snuck a nut onto the bolt when installed. It was a one time thing though. I didn't write anything down.
Spree
Dedicated LVC Member
I would also like the dimensions....for future reference.
UltimateSVT
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i used snowflake centers, bend out the flanges, put a small bolt through it to center it on the bracket- basically duplicate the top of the air_spring. Actually I used a cut air spring.top attached to a snowflake
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I later removed the rubber isolator to lower it a bit
I heard about this on LOD a couple years ago but I also saw negative feedback on the responses there. Someone said after a few months those tabs will open. It looks dangerous.
LOD has the dimensions sheet on how to build your own. I had a metal fab guy make the perches for me. $20.00. Can't go wrong.
I made some by cutting some sheet steel and then just bending the corners down. They are already bending as I did not use think enough steel. Going to by some steel or alum tube in the right dia. and have it welded to some plate.
Thanks for the input.
Thanks for the input.
racecougar
Well-Known LVC Member
That has me cringing.
dnsherrill
Dedicated LVC Member
I'll take a pic sometime this week with the wheel off...my money says that after 6 months and 6k miles it hasn't moved...I drive it about 2k miles/month now, seems like the spring is tstill inpalce but maybe not
UltimateSVT
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That's pretty much what the instructions on LOD explain with correct measurements & they explain to weld a screw into the middle so it can fit in the hole in the car.
dnsherrill
Dedicated LVC Member
let the cringing halt; drv side and pass side, after @ 6k miles, mostly highway 60-80mph,
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$12 in parts
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$12 in parts
ford nut
Local nut case
Some things are not safe that is one of them.
look at these from Eric's for sale thread.
look at these from Eric's for sale thread.
racecougar
Well-Known LVC Member
"It hasn't killed me yet" is no way to justify that that method is safe or the correct way to go about the conversion. I'm guessing the spring is just sitting in the LCA cup, too? I'd machine a set of perches if I was looking to do the swap, as that locates the springs in an absolutely positive manner.
dnsherrill
Dedicated LVC Member
the air spring top is bolted (x2) to the snowflake, there are three attachment points in the air spring top holding it in the 3 holes in the frame
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sprocket
Well-Known LVC Member
I can't remember the exact details on mine, but I originally machined the perches out of delrin (or was it UHMW?)with the outer diameter of the perch being the same as the outer diameter of the spring and then a smaller diameter that recessed into the spring. I also drilled a small center hole that I figured I could open up later as needed. When I removed the air springs I remember needing to add three more holes and bolts and also opening up the center hole and sticking a bolt up through it into the spot where the center stud was on the air spring top. There is just enough gap to fish a nut on top although it's a little tricky to get it started on the bolt.
I think I also reused both rubber caps (top and bottom) that were on the springs when I took them out of the donor car. The donor was either a Tbird or a Cougar. The thickness of my perch above the spring was 3/4" or maybe 1/2".
I'll get some pictures.
I think I also reused both rubber caps (top and bottom) that were on the springs when I took them out of the donor car. The donor was either a Tbird or a Cougar. The thickness of my perch above the spring was 3/4" or maybe 1/2".
I'll get some pictures.
racecougar
Well-Known LVC Member
Here are some that DLF whipped up: http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/fo...ersion&p=2037246159&viewfull=1#post2037246159
We've made a few sets of the lower perches for using Mark VIII LCA's on a MN12, like the ones that ThomasA used to sell. I've never had reason to draw up a set of upper perches.
(Borrowing this pic from Google as my picture doesn't show the angled base)
We've made a few sets of the lower perches for using Mark VIII LCA's on a MN12, like the ones that ThomasA used to sell. I've never had reason to draw up a set of upper perches.
(Borrowing this pic from Google as my picture doesn't show the angled base)
98lincmk7lsc
Dedicated LVC Member
I haven't got everything yet, but I'm getting close. I got the specs for all of the rear bushings but not the perches. If there's anyone that has a set and can measure them for me, I'd sure appreciate it. That would get these out to the masses again much sooner...
dnsherrill
Dedicated LVC Member
no, I used an oil filter socket/wrench that fits perfectly inside the coil, it's bolted to the LCA and the coil sits around it. On my brown car, with the SM kit, the springs sit in the LCA with no centering component; they haven't moved after about 20k miles, but since we're talking about it they probably will today....eh, not
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are you saying you've never done the swap? so you're not using perches? :shifty:
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I don't spend $$$ on pretty parts that never get seen and are essentially overkill; the perches I made are working and cost less than $30 all the way around; I do however see a lot of rust on the SM upper perches;
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I don't have a machine shop and can't justify spending hundreds of dollars for something never seen and what I'm using works and I'm sure will keep working, until that snowflake rots or melts;
AAS is a reputable vendor and sells a ton of SM kits with no LCA centering element; imo, that means it's not needed
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o.p.: what type 'homemade' perches did you use that are 'falling apart'?
racecougar
Well-Known LVC Member
MN12's have factory upper perches, and I run the aluminum lower perches shown in my previous post.
EDITED in RE: to above edit:
I disagree entirely on the necessity of positively locating the springs. I try to follow the "do it once, do it right" method, as it'll almost always cost you less in the long run.
ford nut
Local nut case
Its a hub cap.
What happens when you forget about it, keep driving and it rots or goes to hell because it will not handle the load your putting it under?
Does the magic perch fairy fly in your window like peter pan and let you know your about to kill yourself?
Or some other poor bastage who has no idea your about to cross lanes into his?
Its not smart to do, sure you saved a few dollars but at what expense?
dnsherrill
Dedicated LVC Member
(currently searching for thread describing cheap perches that failed, or no lower perches=movement)
...the air_spring top will not rot- it could shatter due to compression, but it hasn't yet and the load won't change.
I trust one of the moderators on .org (re; snow flake upper perches) and AAS Eddie re; lower perches (not needed, he doesn't sell them with his kits)
...what happens if the coil bottom moves 1/2"? ride height changes or instant death in flames? of course the bottom only moves with or after the top moves, right?
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I'd much rather re-do my interior, get LSC housings, get dual exhaust or get better wheels than spend $3-400 on pretty perches.
how many rotten snowflake center caps have you seen? I'm guessing none. They're aluminum, right? It will rust and or shred when?
...the air_spring top will not rot- it could shatter due to compression, but it hasn't yet and the load won't change.
I trust one of the moderators on .org (re; snow flake upper perches) and AAS Eddie re; lower perches (not needed, he doesn't sell them with his kits)
...what happens if the coil bottom moves 1/2"? ride height changes or instant death in flames? of course the bottom only moves with or after the top moves, right?
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I'd much rather re-do my interior, get LSC housings, get dual exhaust or get better wheels than spend $3-400 on pretty perches.
ford nut
Local nut case
You mean this thread from 2003?
I kinda doubt Craig would still suggest to do this, he is also a member here so feel free to PM him and ask.
http://www.markviii.org/htdocs/dc/d...=25&page=&topic_id=32064&prev_page=show_topic
You will never find a thread for them going bad because its just not a common practice.
Its just not a smart thing to do when there are so many better and safer was to get it done.
I kinda doubt Craig would still suggest to do this, he is also a member here so feel free to PM him and ask.
http://www.markviii.org/htdocs/dc/d...=25&page=&topic_id=32064&prev_page=show_topic
You will never find a thread for them going bad because its just not a common practice.
Its just not a smart thing to do when there are so many better and safer was to get it done.
dnsherrill
Dedicated LVC Member
fwiw, I removed the isolator from the coil top, so the fins (hammered in place) do fit the coil tighter without it.
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correct my physical understanding where appropriate:
for there to be movement of the spring-top, there would need to be minimal load and a sudden stop or turn. That rules out sudden accelerations or braking. A sudden impact against something very massive (without braking) might make them move?
keep in mind, oem is just 3 little plastic nipples
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correct my physical understanding where appropriate:
for there to be movement of the spring-top, there would need to be minimal load and a sudden stop or turn. That rules out sudden accelerations or braking. A sudden impact against something very massive (without braking) might make them move?
keep in mind, oem is just 3 little plastic nipples
Spree
Dedicated LVC Member
Dan....I sent you forward srb spacer's, you seen the quality. I can do the same with the perches! PM me some dimension's and I'll make you a set! While I'm at it I'll make me a set too. 
LSC HUNTER
Dedicated LVC Member
Why is it so hard to understand the concept of " just because it works does not mean it is right"?
Even engineers cannot determine all possibilities of failure.
You state that you are using the top of an airspring so that should be good. Well if it was still attached to the air spring yes but now it is not and is not being used as it was intended and you have altered the structure by drilling holes in it and then added stress points by torqueing down those bolts. See where this is going, you have no idea how any of these parts are going to react together and how you have assembled them.
Good for you that you saved money, hopefully that money will not have to be used to pay for funeral expenses for you or any of the other people who might be involved in an accident if and when these fail.
End of rant
Even engineers cannot determine all possibilities of failure.
You state that you are using the top of an airspring so that should be good. Well if it was still attached to the air spring yes but now it is not and is not being used as it was intended and you have altered the structure by drilling holes in it and then added stress points by torqueing down those bolts. See where this is going, you have no idea how any of these parts are going to react together and how you have assembled them.
Good for you that you saved money, hopefully that money will not have to be used to pay for funeral expenses for you or any of the other people who might be involved in an accident if and when these fail.
End of rant