Repair procedure---Heater hose---Gen I

[cammerfe]

To those of you who have sweated your way through the practically impossible task of dealing with the hose that runs from the bottom of the degas bottle over to the tube fastened to, and running along the firewall, a few comments.

First, it's obvious that the whole works was installed before the engine and, likely, a few other things were put into place. For most of its distance it isn't even possible to see what we're talking about. From the bottom of the bottle the hose takes a convoluted path under and behind the brake master cylinder and the diaphragm housing. There are so many 'woobles' in the way that my first thought was to cut the hose in the center and use a 'join' and a pair of clamps to make things possible. One of the many problems is that there isn't A N Y place for your hands to go while working on the stupid mess.

I fnally got things back together and bled it and it seemed that all was well. I took it out for a spin and noticed, to my dismay, that after about 45 minutes, the temp started to creep. When I got back home it had started to dribble noticeably.

To keep things simple, I found that what looked to be an abraded place on the hose close to the join with the tube was actually passing a bit of water. I quit at that point and just let it set while I did immediately important things.

I also went to Harbor Freight (gulp) and bought a pair of small 'vise grip'-style pliers with a long thin nose and handles more than a foot long. They're practically perfect for reaching way back in there to grab clamps and such.

I have a pressing matter to attend to right now. It's just come up and I may not be able to return to this until mid-day tomorrow. I've noticed that the stuff I've put down will freeze and can't be sent if you wait very long. More later.

K S

 

[RigsLS]

You talking about this hose cammer?

... When the new bottle goes in, your going to find that feeding the lower hose (already attached to the new bottle),
underneath the Brake Booster, is prone to want to go underneath the Steering Shaft Knuckle (at the firewall) due to the angle.

I used a long stick about 3 feet in length guided down from near the front of the Coil cover,
pointing towards to the Intermediate Steering Shaft Knuckle at the firewall ...

... helped in pushing the lower hose upwards overtop of the Steering Knuckle.

Re&Re - OEM Degas Bottle - GEN 1 V8​

 

[oddball]

Using the cable-style spring clamp compressor makes that job pretty bearable from the top. Just get the head of the tool on the clamp, squeeze, pull the hose. The U-shaped hose picks also help. Also a good idea to replace that hose when replacing the bottle.

 

[joegr]

I've done it twice, and honestly it's just not that difficult (with the right tools). To me, the trick is to leave the hose connected to the degas bottle and just disconnect/reconnect to the pipe on the firewall. The OEM bottle comes with the hose already attached. If you are putting the Dorman bottle in, then get used to doing this...
BTW, it's not a "heater hose", it's the "degas return hose." (Yes, it runs into the heater return hose, but its function is not heater related.)

 

[milehighmikey]

Cable actuated remote spring hose clamp tool and Ford degas bottle, FTW!

 

[cammerfe]

Thanks for all your comments. My job isn't done yet---maybe by later on today in between all the other stuff I have to do. But to catch up a bit---
The most bothersome part, to me, when I started in the first place, is that the end of the aluminum tube is way down behind the wiper/transmission assembly. And my degas bottle came with only enough hose attached to reach from the bottle---in place---to where it must be forced over the end of the aluminum pipe. AND NO ROOM FOR YOUR HANDS. (More later)

KS

 

[RigsLS]

Need a band-aid?

 

[joegr]

...to where it must be forced over the end of the aluminum pipe. AND NO ROOM FOR YOUR HANDS. (More later)

KS

Hose pliers and hose clamp pliers.

(Alternately, it's not that hard to remove the wiper assembly.)

 

[cammerfe]

Actually, Joe, you put your finger squarely on the answer. I didn't count the number of bolts, but I'm now at the point of taking the wiper assembly out of the back seat and re-installing it. The only other problem in the hose/tube situation was that the tube had developed a small crack just beyond the end of the hose and just before the adel-type support hanger. I managed to get a long screwdriver in the right place and moved the adel so there was room to reinstall the hose..

Everything is now hooked-up and bled and the gauge holds rock steady in the middle after a ten-mile-or-so trip. Now to put the wipers back in place and start the task of drilling-out the broken bolts that hold the cross-brace on the tops of the springpockets and the firewall.

Isn't this fun?

KS

 

[joegr]

Yes, often there is some complication that makes the job harder than it should have been...

 

[02LincLS]

Milehighmikey hit the nail on the head. Anyone that works on their own LS should buy the special hose clamp tool. I just did my coolant degas tank yet again. My first dorman lasted a long time, but obviously when it fails and you need to get back on the road fast, another dorman goes in. Well this one only lasted a year but at the last replacement, I also bought a motorcraft which has been sitting in my basement waiting for the dorman to self destruct (and boy did it ever- cracks even visible on the front side of the bottle). So in went the motorcraft tank which comes with the new bleed hose and lower hose. I had always just reused the lower hose and used a worm type hose clamp and aside from the very first repair, its been very easy to do. Getting that clamp that 'rig showed a picture of above wasnt too bad with long skinny channel locks, but getting the hose back on the tube was a nightmare. I managed to get my hand down beside the valve cover and shock tower and wiggle it on, but I have two massive bruises on my forearm. IMO, still better than trying to remove the wiper assembly on a car that has seen 14 New England winters. I felt Cammer's pain with the shock tower bar a couple years ago. The bolts broke so I had to drill the bolt out of the hole and through bolt it with some stainless ones. Those came apart nice and easy.

I also used the opportunity while the system was open to install a new thermostat (motorcraft/waxstat 195*F) to see if it helps my issue of running a little warmer on the highway.

I found lots of plastic in the coolant from previous failures so I did a full flush. I remember recently reading about water pumps on here and the whole plastic vs metal impeller topic. Is the stock water pump plastic? I wonder if this is my reason for running warmer at highway speed.

Also while the system was opened, I replaced my dual climate control valve, and for the second time, the auxiliary coolant pump motor. The DCCV was a bear. There were a couple points I didn't think I could get it back together but reassembly went much smoother than anticipated. It made the degas tank lower hose part of the job feel easy.

 

[cammerfe]

One of the things I've concluded is that in many areas, the Lincoln LS is massively over-engineered. 'New' ideas were made use of very freely and with this much time since conception those of us who are owners can see the results. The sort of plastic used in the cooling system parts is one good example.

I've decided that I'll probably keep my '02 LS 'forever'. That means fixing the inevitable ravages of time. Rust in the rocker panel pinch-seam areas is one such item. (It hasn't helped that I attached my belly-pan with screws into the rockers.) Another area of concern is the degas bottle.

I did some research to find out what others have done when faced with the combination of engine and radiator placement such that the fill point must be located other than on the engine or rad. Race vehicles use a pressurized tank and although it could likely be made to fit, race car parts are offered by those who are VERY proud of them. But there are many manufacturers who make small metal containers that might be re-purposed easily enough. I'll keep looking!

KS

 

[02LincLS]

I like the idea of making a metal one, but you need one that mimics the stock version including all its passages and compartments. I pressure tested my setup at 15 psi and at least the motorcraft one didnt deform nearly as bad as the dorman one. That fatigue is most likely the main failure mode. If the plastic was thicker and it had better internal supports, they'd probably outlast the rest of the car.

And speaking of rust, the top of the wheel well where the splash guard push pins are suppose to attach rotted through on me. This allowed the frontward area to collect sand and hold moisture forever. Cleaned it all out good but need to patch it up.

 

[soduka]

Seems like for the long term someone's going to have to engineer a better replacement for the LS' degas bottle other than chinese dorman's crap. For how much the OEM one is going for I bet someone could make and sell one that's properly made. Who knows, perhaps there is a metal tank out there that is close enough that it could be repurposed.

 

[RigsLS]

​

 

[soduka]

Now all you need is someone cooking up new shocks!

 

[joegr]

Seems like for the long term someone's going to have to engineer a better replacement for the LS' degas bottle other than chinese dorman's crap. For how much the OEM one is going for I bet someone could make and sell one that's properly made. Who knows, perhaps there is a metal tank out there that is close enough that it could be repurposed.

Seriously? The OEM bottle lasts for about six years. How many more years do you think the car will go? (Keep in mind that parts are getting harder and harder to get.)

 

[02LincLS]

Hite's tank was quite an undertaking. I'm with Joegr, slap another motorcraft in if its still running in 6 years. At the rate I add miles, it will have 375000 miles when this tank splits lol.

 

[milehighmikey]

Or just run with the cap loose! lol! j/k Don't ban me! I keep my cap tight and man up with a Motorcraft replacement when needed!

 

[soduka]

Seriously? The OEM bottle lasts for about six years. How many more years do you think the car will go? (Keep in mind that parts are getting harder and harder to get.)

That's irrelevant. I don't believe having to replace the entire cooling system top to bottom because it literally rots away every 6 years flat is reasonable or acceptable. My Mark VIII's pressurized bottle is 23 years old. It has yet to rot away because it wasn't made from inferior product in an inferior manner.