Results of compression test on '96 DA

marked8 said:
Have you ever changed the fuel pump?
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No. That seems like an extreme step to take since the fuel pressure is reasonably good, pressure is good with key on, and pressure is good while cranking.

I suppose it's possible that the rebuilt injectors I put in are leaking. However it started very hard the very first time I started it after installing them.

Whatever the problem is, time makes it worse. I can shut if off for at least 30 minutes and it will start right up, although it does stumble slightly. After an hour or so it is hard to start. I drove it to work today and I'm going to run out and start it now and again at lunch just so I don't have to be afraid that it won't start at all after work. It's seriously risky to take it anywhere where it will sit for more than a couple of hours.
 
sprocket said:
I'm not sure. Some voltage that varies and directly correlates to the short term fuel trims I think.
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The reason I ask is computer controlled or not it comes down to fuel or spark.
I'm sure you know that but for the benefit of those reading...
You ruled out the MAF
O2 sensors could be bad but if they are reading the same as your other one they could just be slow.
Crank and cam sensors.. One or the other could be bad. Or the harness going to it. Pigtail can be replaced.
Plugs or wires.. I know you said both are new but have you re-checked the plugs and the firing order.- could also be a bad coil.. Sometimes you can see a light show in the dark at the coil or along the plug wires.
Injection wires could be out of order just like the firing order on the plugs..
TPS or IAC could be out wacky but you should be able to unplug one or the other and check.
Throttle body completely closed or open too far?
From the video it looks to be holding about 30lbs at crank which should run the thing.
Make sure all your motor grounds are good and the bolt on the main molex is tight for the engine harness going into the body. Fuses/fusable links as well.
I'm sure others may have some thoughts
I
 
sprocket said:
No. That seems like an extreme step to take since the fuel pressure is reasonably good, pressure is good with key on, and pressure is good while cranking.

I suppose it's possible that the rebuilt injectors I put in are leaking. However it started very hard the very first time I started it after installing them.

Whatever the problem is, time makes it worse. I can shut if off for at least 30 minutes and it will start right up, although it does stumble slightly. After an hour or so it is hard to start. I drove it to work today and I'm going to run out and start it now and again at lunch just so I don't have to be afraid that it won't start at all after work. It's seriously risky to take it anywhere where it will sit for more than a couple of hours.
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Look up Don Pfau's problems with his supercharged '93. He had similar issues. I was starting to have some of the same problems with my '97 before I changed out to a SVT Focus pump. Just a thought.
 
Thanks for the advice! The next step is to swap the coils with my other car because it is easy. As I said earlier it starts like an old snow blower in the cold and that is often spark related. Then there's the STFT readings which show bank 2 to be tending towards lean. I'm not sure if that could be spark related. Last night it was running kind of rough after a smooth 30 mile drive. I reset the fuel economy at the start of that drive and it was over 30mpg when I got there. I got about 27mpg going back. It ran smooth on the highway but rough in town. There is a fairly strong tick in the engine and it's location is hard to pinpoint even with a stethoscope. It seems to be coming from under the intake. Eric (Markviiiedrea) was listening to it last night and that's what he thought.

After swapping coils I can try the technically correct '96 spark plug wiring but as I said a few times, that really shouldn't matter since two cylinders fire together. In fact, after market coils are marked double. For example 1 and 6 are marked on the same tower.
 
Today the "coolant level low" warning came on. I get that a lot because the sensor needs cleaning but this time the level really is low. There is no coolant in the overflow tank at all. There was last week. I also don't like the look or smell of the exhaust. If I start both cars side by side, you can't hardly see the exhaust from my old Mark but there is white exhaust from the DA and the smell is different. There is also black residue in the exhaust tips. That could be from rich starts maybe.

Tim says it could be because I had driven the other one to work and back but the DA sat all day, so it might just be moisture. I let it run for quite awhile though. Where did the coolant go? I see no leaks. Actually I didn't back it up and look for a leak so I will do that, but I don't think it is leaking.

On a different topic, the loud tick in the engine comes from under the intake. The loudest I hear it is if I put the stethoscope probe on the left IMRC actuator mounting bracket, or maybe it's the lever arm. It's hard to see back there.
 
If there is no leak, then it's burning it somehow. Head gasket? I know the compression test data looked good. This is very interesting,
 
sprocket said:
On a different topic, the loud tick in the engine comes from under the intake. The loudest I hear it is if I put the stethoscope probe on the left IMRC actuator mounting bracket, or maybe it's the lever arm. It's hard to see back there.
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could it be oil leakdown, causing the secondary cam tensioners to rattle?
 
I just watched your video. You've definetly got a blown headgasket on that car. Ivé had about 7 Mark VIII's with blown headgaskets. Most had good compression. Buy a $30 bottle of bar's leak headgasket repair. The kind you pour directly into antifreeze. Do it like the directions say. It'll buy you about 3 months time till you find an engine.
 
Another detail: There is no thermostat currently in the car. I have explained why before. There is instant pressure at the reservoir right after starting or just from cranking it over. I'm not sure if this is normal because maybe without the thermostat there would be pressure right away. I would say it is full pressure.

The oil looked fine when I changed it. I'll try to make one more better video.
 
Have you pulled the plugs to check them?
I know you did a hydrocarbon test and it came out good but they don't always tell the story.
Lots of white exhaust usually = headgasket.
If you know its been running rich the plugs will be wet/black,
If you have coolant entering the chamber after it comes up to temp that/those plugs will be clean as a whistle.
Burning coolant will also plug the cats over time and could cause a replacement motor to fail if that is the issue. That could also explain the hard start and stumble/stall at idle as well as the popping back through the intake.
Just a thought.
 
97MarkJA said:
If you know its been running rich the plugs will be wet/black,
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Running rich for a extended period can also kill/plug a Catalytic Converter.
A clogged Catalytic Converter can kill a head gasket.
Chit runs down hill.
Uncap the cats and see if the hard start improves.

A member here replaced a engine and it ran like crap, he was using the old Catalytic Converter it was plugged causing the same issues you have, Pretty sure it was also the main cause of his first engine failure.

My today's guess is bad kitty.....
 
How do I uncap the cats? The passenger side can be unbolted but the driver's side is attached to the manifold.

I started both cars side by side this morning and the white smoke is hugely obvious from the DA. It took a long time to start it and yes it pops back through the intake. There is no lack of power though.

I don't see that using sealer would be necessary unless it were a long term fix. I don't need the car so why risk plugging the heater core just to drive it a few months. I can just put it in the garage for awhile.

The potential for clogged cats does concern me though. That's just another big expense if I have to replace them and that's IF I identify them as truly clogged before I damage another engine. I need to know FOR SURE that they are good before I proceed any further.

The plugs are wet and black I believe. I'll check again.
 
If you are going for the quick head gasket sealer method look into Steel Seal. That stuff is awesome. Recommended by a guy over on LOD and he used it in a car that had a bad head gasket for a while. He put the stuff in and then has been running the car for a long period of time.

I bought some for my brother Pontiac 3.1 that my nephew beats on. This kid has gone through 9 cars in 18 months. Needless to say the stuff is awesome. It might be a bit pricey but they do say if it does not work with the first dose you can either have your money back or they will send you another dose of it for free.
 
sprocket said:
How do I uncap the cats? The passenger side can be unbolted but the driver's side is attached to the manifold.
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Pull one side pull the pipe off the other, if one is plugged you will know at start up.
 
LSC HUNTER said:
If you are going for the quick head gasket sealer method look into Steel Seal. That stuff is awesome. Recommended by a guy over on LOD and he used it in a car that had a bad head gasket for a while. He put the stuff in and then has been running the car for a long period of time.

I bought some for my brother Pontiac 3.1 that my nephew beats on. This kid has gone through 9 cars in 18 months. Needless to say the stuff is awesome. It might be a bit pricey but they do say if it does not work with the first dose you can either have your money back or they will send you another dose of it for free.
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I would be willing to try something like that. My friend Tim says to disconnect the heater hoses and hook them together if I'm going to try that.
I do believe that stuff can work under certain circumstances. I also think there is some slick advertising that goes on with the expensive versions of head gasket sealer. I think Steel Seal could be one of those. What's the main ingredient? Is it something different than I can get elsewhere for 1/3 the cost? I can imagine they can afford the money back guarantee at $100 a pop.
 
LSC HUNTER said:
If you are going for the quick head gasket sealer method look into Steel Seal. That stuff is awesome. Recommended by a guy over on LOD and he used it in a car that had a bad head gasket for a while. He put the stuff in and then has been running the car for a long period of time.

I bought some for my brother Pontiac 3.1 that my nephew beats on. This kid has gone through 9 cars in 18 months. Needless to say the stuff is awesome. It might be a bit pricey but they do say if it does not work with the first dose you can either have your money back or they will send you another dose of it for free.
Click to expand...

+1
I think its probably the best on the market.
 
Sprocket, like everything you get what you pay for. If you want to pay 1/3 the price then by all means go get some Barrs leak and cross your fingers your $35.00 was spent well and then if it works look for a motor.

This Steel Seal put it in and if it does not work then get your money back and put it towards a new motor. Or If it does work, chances are it will, drive it for anothe 30 or 40K and save for a new used motor or build one.

This stuff is the real deal and I feel it is worth the chance to try.
 
Another thing that seems to point to head gasket: Immediate full pressure in the cooling system. Seconds after starting the car the reservoir is under full pressure and the coolant will surge into the tank when the cap is released. Even if the car doesn't start! And I have to remove the cap slowly. Yes, there is no thermostat, however with the car running the pressure doesn't build that fast again. I can release the cap a second time after it runs for five minutes and...nothing.

I think there could be significant enough oil in the coolant to suggest it is not user error like me using contaminated used coolant. We have oil in the coolant and coolant (white smoke) in the exhaust. What I don't have is coolant in the oil. The problem is getting worse, suggesting that the breach is getting worse.

There will be more pics and video tomorrow. I would also like to consider alternative treatments to Steel Seal which costs $109. I'm pretty sure I have found an engine for $325.
 
If you don't need to drive the car then don't waste any money on block seal. Just put an engine in it. There's no doubt whatsoever that car has a blown headgasket.
 
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