Right wing censors come to NBC

raVeneyes

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http://www.latimes.com/news/nationw...4sep04,0,6609184.story?coll=la-home-headlines
There was a several-second tape delay, but the person in charge "was instructed to listen for a curse word and didn't realize [West] had gone off script," NBC spokeswoman Rebecca Marks told Associated Press.

"I hate the way they portray us in the media," West began his remarks during the hourlong program, on which he was one of several celebrities, including Hilary Swank and Leonardo DiCaprio, who spoke between musical numbers. "If you see a black family, it says they're looting. See a white family, it says they're looking for food."

Appears some other people saw it that way too.
 
Video doesn't lie. Show me one 'white' person carrying an armful of Nike shoes and I'll show you a 'black' person carrying a plasma TV. Let's see whoo comes up with the 'footage' first.


Why does this have to turn into a racial thing. It is plainly obvious for all to see who was doing the plundering and who was looking to survive. Oh boy, we better not go there. I would like to see all the gangs of 'whites' running around town with guns and raping girls in bathrooms. Got any footage of that.

Quit making excuses. Evil is evil and we are seeing a whole bunch of evil.
 
MonsterMark said:
Video doesn't lie. Show me one 'white' person carrying an armful of Nike shoes and I'll show you a 'black' person carrying a plasma TV. Let's see whoo comes up with the 'footage' first.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I can show you a video of a stock Ford Focus beating a Funny car in a drag race.

The video camera can't be everywhere at once, and it is affected by the ethics, morals, and attitudes of the person wielding it. I know this first hand because when I click the shutter I have the ultimate control over what you see as reality...I can choose to show you something, I can choose to make it look better or worse, I can choose not to show it at all.

Why does this have to turn into a racial thing.

You're absolutely correct...why *does* it have to be about race. It's just a--holes of any color who are looting.

It is plainly obvious for all to see who was doing the plundering and who was looking to survive.

Again you're correct. All kinds of people are plundering and all kinds of people are looking to survive.

Oh boy, we better not go there. I would like to see all the gangs of 'whites' running around town with guns and raping girls in bathrooms. Got any footage of that.

And you know...if it had been a bunch of poor whites who had been stuck in the city I'm sure you'd see that instead of a case where the larger group happens to be ethnic

Quit making excuses. Evil is evil and we are seeing a whole bunch of evil.

You're right, and the evil doesn't just stop at what's being filmed...it continues on to commentators and message boards like this where people want to classify the evil and place a face or group of faces to it. It is just evil and it can and *IS* being done by all different races and creeds.

You think you're so f-ing high and mighty...you *THINK* you're not racist...but in a short time many members of this message board have proven just how racist you are. Or perhaps I shouldn't say racist, but racially brainwashed. I'm not saying that we all need to censor ourselves and be all P.C. about everything, but you should at least look at your own comments and realize when they are racist. At least admit it to yourself. The occasional racist joke or racially motivated grouping statement is fine, but to look at a situation like New Orleans and say 'we all see who is doing the looting'...that's just wrong.

You know what...I don't think we have all seen who is doing the looting. I think you're trying to put a filter on the situation and group people in to looters and survivalists. In reality you should be looking at the situation and realizing that you yourself would become either a looter or a survivalist in that situation, and so would the guy next to you...and there's no way of saying if you would be one or the other without being there. One thing that you can say for certain though is that ANY population put in to that situation would have the same percentages of looters and survivalists. A hurricane hits Salt Lake City, Utah and the population doesn't get evacuated, and I'm sure you'd see the same amount of looting.
 
You know what...I don't think we have all seen who is doing the looting. I think you're trying to put a filter on the situation and group people in to looters and survivalists. In reality you should be looking at the situation and realizing that you yourself would become either a looter or a survivalist in that situation, and so would the guy next to you...and there's no way of saying if you would be one or the other without being there. One thing that you can say for certain though is that ANY population put in to that situation would have the same percentages of looters and survivalists. A hurricane hits Salt Lake City, Utah and the population doesn't get evacuated, and I'm sure you'd see the same amount of looting.

Let me first start off by saying that I really don't care who's doing the looting. I've seen the footage that's given to me, and I can draw two conclusions from all of this. 1.) There seems to be a lot more black people looting than anyone else (you can't argue with what I see. Now whether or not that is a true depiction can very well be argued. I am not there, and therefore I can only go by what I see. More on that later.) 2.) If I come to this conclusion, it is because I have been given a limited amount of information to lead me to this conclusion. From the footage that I have viewed on both Fox and CNN, I have concluded that there are mostly blacks looting. Now from this I have a few points. 1.) You can't blame me for arriving at the first conclusion because I am much like people who contemplated the universe hundreds of years ago. There is only so much they have to go on, they can not be faulted for their false views. 2.) That being said, in most cases it is our responsibility to research further whether the evidence that has been given to us is true. However, in light of the circumstances, this is immpossible. As I have a job and live in Atlanta, I am not able to further investigate the theory that it is mostly blacks looting, anymore than someone in Egypt could have invented a telescope to look at the stars more accurately. 3.) As a society, we have come to depend on the media to give us an accurate depiction of life in our world, whether it be in politics, sports, culture, society, etc.... Now, seeing as we have become dependant upon them as seen in things such as press only passes, "exclusive interviews", and other things that only the media has access to, it is hard to get another viewpoint if all the media ia aligned against something. Now, that is very unlikely to happen, and I think everyone could agree on that. There are so many idealogies, backgrounds, and thought processes among the people in the media, that the patrons can be confident that if there are two sides, you will always get the other, somehow, even if it only gets published in a one newspaper somewhere, or it gets 5 minutes of commentary on the news. To say that what I see is not true would be to say that every person out there with a camera who works for a newstation, and every producer who is cutting the film, and deciding what gets on air must be aligned in the same feeling that they want to show that black people are the ones that are doing most of the looting. As I have stated before this is nearly impossible. As far as the second side, for it to even exist, there must be proof. For you to say that there are more white people doing the actual looting, you would have to show me proof of those circumstances. So, I can therefore draw another conclusion that if I get my information through a variety of sources, that I will eventually be able to be confirmed in my conclusion that it is mostly black people looting (let me clarify that when I say looting, I am talking about people stealing tv's, shoes, and worst of all guns, not the people taking food and diapers to try and stay alive.). Of course, I have visual proof to establish the first side, which is that mostly black people are doing the looting. Now, this isn't to say that black people are bad, or that white people never do anything wrong. But in this controlled scenario, the former of those two points tends to be true. But one can further argue that it isn't their blackness that is making them loot. It is there willingness to be consumed by the culture of, as Chris Rock so eloquently puts, the N-word. This culture is not mutually exclusive to blacks and whites however. But, in light of the evidence, it would seem in this again controlled scenario, that it is mostly black people. Questions from all if this. 1.) Does this make me racist? Yes, but only if I take this information and apply it to any other black person not in this controlled scenario, or if I apply it to these same black people outside of this scenario. Otherwise, no it just makes me a person who has drawn a conclusion based on an amount of evidence that was given to me. I am no more racist than Aristotle is an idiot for thinking that the universe is earth-centric as opposed to what it really is, helio-centric. 2.) What about accounts of white people looting? Again, I need some sort of proof of this. The best proof is oftentimes visual proof. I can't believe anything that someone writes in a newspaper. That is not proof, but just a small bit of evidence into the contrary. However, I find it hard to believe that there is not a substantial amount of video evidence to show the other side to this, that it is either equally blacks and whites, or that it is mostly whites doing the looting.

As far as putting a filter on things, I think that is appropriate. To say that you can't lump people into two different categories is false. However you can't name the two categories looters and survivalists, because in addition to looting, the looters are also trying to survive. You would have to call them looters and non-looters. Why can't you put people into these categories? If I steal something that is not necessary for my survival, and I knew (key word there) that it wasn't, them I am a looter. If, however, I am stealing food, or medicine, or something else that I need to survive vitally, then I am not a looter. I find that very cut and dry. To say that no one can know whether they would be a looter or a non-looter in this situation is to say that the theory of choas applies to all aspects of life. You may not be able to say 100% what you would be, but at the same time, based upon the character and past acts of a person, you can predict with some confidence which one they will become. But then again, nothing is absolute in this world, so I will not try to prove otherwise. But to put the argument to what someone would or would not do in a similar situation, is to detract from what is going on. And that is that there area bunch of a$$holes down there looting other peoples property. But it doesn't matter what evidence has been given to me about the racial background of the looters, or whether or not I have knowledge of how I would act. As it stands, I have never acted like this and it doesn't matter whether they are brown, black, white, orange, blue, green, or yellow. They all suck, and I hope they rot in hell. What they are doing is wrong. Period, end of story.
 
Looks like there are 5 or 6 less to worry about medivacing out.



Gunmen Attack Contractors on La. Bridge
Sep 04 7:08 PM US/Eastern




NEW ORLEANS


Police shot and killed at least five people Sunday after gunmen opened fire on a group of contractors traveling across a bridge on their way to make repairs, authorities said.

Deputy Police Chief W.J. Riley said police shot at eight people carrying guns, killing five or six.

Fourteen contractors were traveling across the Danziger Bridge under police escort when they came under fire, said John Hall, a spokesman for the Army Corps of Engineers.

They were on their way to launch barges into Lake Pontchartrain to help plug the breach in the 17th Street Canal, Hall said.

None of the contractors was killed, Hall said.

The bridge spans a canal connecting Lake Pontchartrain and the Mississippi River. No other details were immediately available.
 
I'd call these guys scumbags but that would be demeaning bags full of scum. These are the worst, and I don't even think I could consider them human beings. Looting aside, firing on civilians who are trying to help everyone is one of the worst things I may have ever heard of.
 
They should consider these guys terrorists because what they are doing basically amounts to that.
 
raVeneyes said:
You think you're so f-ing high and mighty...you *THINK* you're not racist...but in a short time many members of this message board have proven just how racist you are. Or perhaps I shouldn't say racist, but racially brainwashed. I'm not saying that we all need to censor ourselves and be all P.C. about everything, but you should at least look at your own comments and realize when they are racist. At least admit it to yourself. The occasional racist joke or racially motivated grouping statement is fine, but to look at a situation like New Orleans and say 'we all see who is doing the looting'...that's just wrong.

Listen, bud...

You'd better knock off the name-calling. It's not acceptable per the rules of this board. Furthermore, you don't know enough about any one person on this board to label them a racist, and you don't have enough moral authority to crack your putrid whip of judgment on any one person. What you've said here proves that you don't even understand what racism is in either concrete or abstract. By your apparent definition, anyone who says anything critical of a person or group of people who happen to be of another color is a "racist". Pure absurdity. Racism wasn't even the original term for what you're referring to, anyway. "Prejudice" came first (def. "pre-judge", meaning a predisposed opinion), and it stemmed from slavery, and the belief that blacks were not human or "as human" as whites, and as such didn't deserve the same rights as whites here in America, simply because of the color of their skin. You and your Fib friends have perverted and expanded this point of view to include anything negative directed toward anyone who happens to be of another color. Neither you nor anyone else has any moral authority to judge whether something I or anyone else says is racist just based upon our observations of a person's BEHAVIOR. If I observe a black man shooting at a doctor trying to get off a helicopter to treat people and I call him a hoodlum, you and your Fib wacko friends cry foul and call me a racist. But the reality of the situation is that the only person recognizing a distinction of color is YOU. In my book, that's racism: Making a distinction based upon color. But I'm not going to stoop so low and call you a racist just because you said something irresponsible. I don't know enough about you to make that judgment either.

Let's lay off the extreme epithets and pejorative terms. It only fosters hate and it doesn't contribute to this board. "Repugs" and "Fiberals" is supposed to be humorous and needling, but "racist" is hate speech.

Knock it off.
 
MAllen82 said:
Let me first start off by saying that I really don't care who's doing the looting. I've seen the footage that's given to me, and I can draw two conclusions from all of this. 1.) There seems to be a lot more black people looting than anyone else (you can't argue with what I see. Now whether or not that is a true depiction can very well be argued. I am not there, and therefore I can only go by what I see. More on that later.) 2.) If I come to this conclusion, it is because I have been given a limited amount of information to lead me to this conclusion. From the footage that I have viewed on both Fox and CNN, I have concluded that there are mostly blacks looting. Now from this I have a few points. 1.) You can't blame me for arriving at the first conclusion because I am much like people who contemplated the universe hundreds of years ago. There is only so much they have to go on, they can not be faulted for their false views. 2.) That being said, in most cases it is our responsibility to research further whether the evidence that has been given to us is true. However, in light of the circumstances, this is immpossible. As I have a job and live in Atlanta, I am not able to further investigate the theory that it is mostly blacks looting, anymore than someone in Egypt could have invented a telescope to look at the stars more accurately. 3.) As a society, we have come to depend on the media to give us an accurate depiction of life in our world, whether it be in politics, sports, culture, society, etc.... Now, seeing as we have become dependant upon them as seen in things such as press only passes, "exclusive interviews", and other things that only the media has access to, it is hard to get another viewpoint if all the media ia aligned against something. Now, that is very unlikely to happen, and I think everyone could agree on that. There are so many idealogies, backgrounds, and thought processes among the people in the media, that the patrons can be confident that if there are two sides, you will always get the other, somehow, even if it only gets published in a one newspaper somewhere, or it gets 5 minutes of commentary on the news. To say that what I see is not true would be to say that every person out there with a camera who works for a newstation, and every producer who is cutting the film, and deciding what gets on air must be aligned in the same feeling that they want to show that black people are the ones that are doing most of the looting. As I have stated before this is nearly impossible. As far as the second side, for it to even exist, there must be proof. For you to say that there are more white people doing the actual looting, you would have to show me proof of those circumstances. So, I can therefore draw another conclusion that if I get my information through a variety of sources, that I will eventually be able to be confirmed in my conclusion that it is mostly black people looting (let me clarify that when I say looting, I am talking about people stealing tv's, shoes, and worst of all guns, not the people taking food and diapers to try and stay alive.). Of course, I have visual proof to establish the first side, which is that mostly black people are doing the looting. Now, this isn't to say that black people are bad, or that white people never do anything wrong. But in this controlled scenario, the former of those two points tends to be true. But one can further argue that it isn't their blackness that is making them loot. It is there willingness to be consumed by the culture of, as Chris Rock so eloquently puts, the N-word. This culture is not mutually exclusive to blacks and whites however. But, in light of the evidence, it would seem in this again controlled scenario, that it is mostly black people. Questions from all if this. 1.) Does this make me racist? Yes, but only if I take this information and apply it to any other black person not in this controlled scenario, or if I apply it to these same black people outside of this scenario. Otherwise, no it just makes me a person who has drawn a conclusion based on an amount of evidence that was given to me. I am no more racist than Aristotle is an idiot for thinking that the universe is earth-centric as opposed to what it really is, helio-centric. 2.) What about accounts of white people looting? Again, I need some sort of proof of this. The best proof is oftentimes visual proof. I can't believe anything that someone writes in a newspaper. That is not proof, but just a small bit of evidence into the contrary. However, I find it hard to believe that there is not a substantial amount of video evidence to show the other side to this, that it is either equally blacks and whites, or that it is mostly whites doing the looting.

As far as putting a filter on things, I think that is appropriate. To say that you can't lump people into two different categories is false. However you can't name the two categories looters and survivalists, because in addition to looting, the looters are also trying to survive. You would have to call them looters and non-looters. Why can't you put people into these categories? If I steal something that is not necessary for my survival, and I knew (key word there) that it wasn't, them I am a looter. If, however, I am stealing food, or medicine, or something else that I need to survive vitally, then I am not a looter. I find that very cut and dry. To say that no one can know whether they would be a looter or a non-looter in this situation is to say that the theory of choas applies to all aspects of life. You may not be able to say 100% what you would be, but at the same time, based upon the character and past acts of a person, you can predict with some confidence which one they will become. But then again, nothing is absolute in this world, so I will not try to prove otherwise. But to put the argument to what someone would or would not do in a similar situation, is to detract from what is going on. And that is that there area bunch of a$$holes down there looting other peoples property. But it doesn't matter what evidence has been given to me about the racial background of the looters, or whether or not I have knowledge of how I would act. As it stands, I have never acted like this and it doesn't matter whether they are brown, black, white, orange, blue, green, or yellow. They all suck, and I hope they rot in hell. What they are doing is wrong. Period, end of story.

In general I agree with your statements. The only thing I think that needs to be pulled out is the fact that you are even considering the percentages of looters who are one color or another. What I'm saying is they're looters and they're scum, who cares what color...why did that have to be brought in to the equation at all.

Of course the majority of looters are black in New Orleans...the majority of the residents of New Orleans are black, and an even greater majority of people who could not afford to leave New Orleans because they don't own cars or have enough for a bus ticket are black.

In any breakdown of civilization you're going to have people who break the rules of the civilization that's not there anymore...be it an all white neighborhood or an all black one.
 
fossten said:
Listen, bud...

You'd better knock off the name-calling. It's not acceptable per the rules of this board. Furthermore, you don't know enough about any one person on this board to label them a racist, and you don't have enough moral authority to crack your putrid whip of judgment on any one person. What you've said here proves that you don't even understand what racism is in either concrete or abstract. By your apparent definition, anyone who says anything critical of a person or group of people who happen to be of another color is a "racist". Pure absurdity. Racism wasn't even the original term for what you're referring to, anyway. "Prejudice" came first (def. "pre-judge", meaning a predisposed opinion), and it stemmed from slavery, and the belief that blacks were not human or "as human" as whites, and as such didn't deserve the same rights as whites here in America, simply because of the color of their skin. You and your Fib friends have perverted and expanded this point of view to include anything negative directed toward anyone who happens to be of another color. Neither you nor anyone else has any moral authority to judge whether something I or anyone else says is racist just based upon our observations of a person's BEHAVIOR. If I observe a black man shooting at a doctor trying to get off a helicopter to treat people and I call him a hoodlum, you and your Fib wacko friends cry foul and call me a racist. But the reality of the situation is that the only person recognizing a distinction of color is YOU. In my book, that's racism: Making a distinction based upon color. But I'm not going to stoop so low and call you a racist just because you said something irresponsible. I don't know enough about you to make that judgment either.

Let's lay off the extreme epithets and pejorative terms. It only fosters hate and it doesn't contribute to this board. "Repugs" and "Fiberals" is supposed to be humorous and needling, but "racist" is hate speech.

Knock it off.

Fine...don't call me 'bud'
 
raVeneyes said:
In general I agree with your statements. The only thing I think that needs to be pulled out is the fact that you are even considering the percentages of looters who are one color or another. What I'm saying is they're looters and they're scum, who cares what color...why did that have to be brought in to the equation at all.

Of course the majority of looters are black in New Orleans...the majority of the residents of New Orleans are black, and an even greater majority of people who could not afford to leave New Orleans because they don't own cars or have enough for a bus ticket are black.

In any breakdown of civilization you're going to have people who break the rules of the civilization that's not there anymore...be it an all white neighborhood or an all black one.

You couldn't have said it any better!
 
raVeneyes said:
You think you're so f-ing high and mighty...you *THINK* you're not racist...but in a short time many members of this message board have proven just how racist you are.
Actually, I don't. But I do call a spade a spade. If this happened in a white community, I'd say the same thing. I believe in equal criticism.

I see nothing wrong with taking food and water (soda, beer, whatever) especially when none are available. (The fact that things went down the way they did is a whole other thread). However, I draw the line at taking non-essentials.

To call me racist is simply comical. I have hired more minorities in my life than people you probably know. I hate the term African-American so I won't use it. It is disengenuous. I've hired blacks, asians, cubans, mexicans, mong, whites, even the physically challenged. I've hired trailer trash and criminals. You're so off base it is not even funny. I have given anybody a chance as long as they were willing to work and didn't rip me off. Sometimes it worked out, sometimes it didn't. I can tell you which groups of people are trying to get ahead by working hard and which groups think they are entitled to something. The results I found in my real life experiences may even surprise such an informed person as yourself.


raVeneyes said:
Or perhaps I shouldn't say racist, but racially brainwashed. I'm not saying that we all need to censor ourselves and be all P.C. about everything, but you should at least look at your own comments and realize when they are racist.
If you are really open in your viewpoints then you would see the real racists in this country. They come mostly in the form of 'black' columnists and activists. Take a look at any of the major newspapers from the Milwaukee Journal/Sentinel to the Miami Herald to the USA Today and LA Times. Here is where you will see the real racism in the country. But as you pointed out, we are not supposed to single these people out because in actuality they are performing reverse racism and therefore that is OK.

You want to pick a fight with me, that's fine. But I would appreciate you taking the effort to know your foe a little better before taking such a direct shot. I am offended to be sure.

Maybe in some way I feel 'entitled' to make these comments. I have given people of color a chance, even when their 'resume' didn't meet the standards. If they convinced me they wanted and needed to work, that was good enough for me. I can't even imagine how I would feel if I found out that one of my employees came in and ransacked the very business that helped support them and their families. People don't think before they act. We are surely living in the ME,ME,ME generation.

So in closing, yes, it is possible, maybe even probable that taking plasma TV's and the latest sweated-hoody with Kobe printed on it can or would be seen as a life necessity, but in our hearts and souls, we all know it to be wrong. To sit by silently in the feel-good attempt to not offend, or to act racially and politically correct, is exactly why this behavior is being allowing and it is this behavior that is driving this country in the wrong direction. Did this happen during the Great Depression when millions and millions of people had nothing?

We need to condemn the people that do this. Black, white, or whatever their skin 'color' is.

Listen, there are many good black leaders in this country that get it. They are trying to be heard. I think it is imperative that the rest of us support these men and women. They know that kids having kids and rampant drug use is sapping the life blood from their communities. They understand the breakdown in the family unit leads to boys without fathers which leads to boys breaking into stores and grabbing guns because it is party time. These leaders control the future of our country and the future of the generations to follow. Let's support them when even they are willing to call a spade a spade. Let's NOT support the racist disguised as an activist on TV unwilling to point out the obvious.
 
MonsterMark said:
Actually, I don't. But I do call a spade a spade. If this happened in a white community, I'd say the same thing. I believe in equal criticism.

I see nothing wrong with taking food and water (soda, beer, whatever) especially when none are available. (The fact that things went down the way they did is a whole other thread). However, I draw the line at taking non-essentials.

To call me racist is simply comical. I have hired more minorities in my life than people you probably know. I hate the term African-American so I won't use it. It is disengenuous. I've hired blacks, asians, cubans, mexicans, mong, whites, even the physically challenged. I've hired trailer trash and criminals. You're so off base it is not even funny. I have given anybody a chance as long as they were willing to work and didn't rip me off. Sometimes it worked out, sometimes it didn't. I can tell you which groups of people are trying to get ahead by working hard and which groups think they are entitled to something. The results I found in my real life experiences may even surprise such an informed person as yourself.


If you are really open in your viewpoints then you would see the real racists in this country. They come mostly in the form of 'black' columnists and activists. Take a look at any of the major newspapers from the Milwaukee Journal/Sentinel to the Miami Herald to the USA Today and LA Times. Here is where you will see the real racism in the country. But as you pointed out, we are not supposed to single these people out because in actuality they are performing reverse racism and therefore that is OK.

You want to pick a fight with me, that's fine. But I would appreciate you taking the effort to know your foe a little better before taking such a direct shot. I am offended to be sure.

Maybe in some way I feel 'entitled' to make these comments. I have given people of color a chance, even when their 'resume' didn't meet the standards. If they convinced me they wanted and needed to work, that was good enough for me. I can't even imagine how I would feel if I found out that one of my employees came in and ransacked the very business that helped support them and their families. People don't think before they act. We are surely living in the ME,ME,ME generation.

So in closing, yes, it is possible, maybe even probable that taking plasma TV's and the latest sweated-hoody with Kobe printed on it can or would be seen as a life necessity, but in our hearts and souls, we all know it to be wrong. To sit by silently in the feel-good attempt to not offend, or to act racially and politically correct, is exactly why this behavior is being allowing and it is this behavior that is driving this country in the wrong direction. Did this happen during the Great Depression when millions and millions of people had nothing?

We need to condemn the people that do this. Black, white, or whatever their skin 'color' is.

Listen, there are many good black leaders in this country that get it. They are trying to be heard. I think it is imperative that the rest of us support these men and women. They know that kids having kids and rampant drug use is sapping the life blood from their communities. They understand the breakdown in the family unit leads to boys without fathers which leads to boys breaking into stores and grabbing guns because it is party time. These leaders control the future of our country and the future of the generations to follow. Let's support them when even they are willing to call a spade a spade. Let's NOT support the racist disguised as an activist on TV unwilling to point out the obvious.

OK...I'm a little personally sensitive to these things. I do however stand behind my statements even if not in the same vehement spirit.

You may well be a great equal opportunity employer and a social experimenter and an appreciator of great leadership...and to say racist *is* a bit strong...but none the less your statements and statements of others have been prejudiced and narrow. Any time you take the actions of people and imply that they are a product of or a likely outcome for someone from their racial background it's wrong. Statements like 'we all see who is doing the looting' and 'you'd be surprised who makes the best employee' are rich indications of the thought processes you're going through.

Race does not pre-determine the way someone is going to act. Yes *some* black men and women act with a sense of entitlement (so do some affluent whites). I have been subject to that one myself, because I am often in the position to be an employer as well as an employee and a sales person. It's completely racist to say that blacks have a sense of entitlement however, or to presume that the motivation for a black looter in New Orleans is doing their looting due to a sense of entitlement stemming from their race. The way you and others have said things on this board however shows that the thought process starts not with the person doing the action, but rather with the group that the person comes from.

Actually, I just realized that's one of the major reasons that most people around here can't argue well. Look at the political arguments. The thought process that several people go through around here is 'Oh he's a Liberal so he thinks....' or 'Oh he's a Conservative so he thinks....' But the simple fact is that each individual on this board, no matter their broader politics, has their own individual specific set of beliefs that don't necessarily agree with the general party movement.

In this same way each looter in New Orleans has their own specific reasons for doing what they are doing. Perhaps they see it as an opportunity to get some extra cash and feel they are entitled to it. Maybe they think that no one is going to want this stuff except them anyway. They possibly could just be going along with the leadership of someone close to them.

Whatever the reason behind it, we shouldn't be grouping them by color of skin or lack thereof. There are sociopaths there who've been waiting for an opportunity like this, and now they have it. These sociopaths exist everywhere though and in every race and creed.
 
raVeneyes said:
The way you and others have said things on this board however shows that the thought process starts not with the person doing the action, but rather with the group that the person comes from.

I would like to see, in quotes and in context, anything that remotely backs up this statement.

If you're going to call people racist on this forum, you'd better back it up with REAL, CONCRETE evidence. Until then, you are just blowing typical, left wing wacko hot air.
 
raVeneyes said:
Fine...don't call me 'bud'

I'm glad you could agree with what I wrote on the whole. As far as the percentages of ethnicity, I agree with your point as well. Since there is such a large number of black people in the city, and way more poor black people who had to stay, of course there will be more black people looting. I hope you realized that I am not blaming black people on this. However, there is no excuse for what these guys are doing. When the time comes, we need to look at this situation and try to figure out what was causing these people to loot, whether black or white. Now, I believe that whatever it is, it's a common cause that crosses all race boundaries. However, that being said, I think that it is going to be more prevelant in the black communities down there than in the white ones. I don't think it's just a simple there are more black people, and more of them in that area that are poorer than others. I think it goes deeper than that, because you have an unusually large number of people doing this. I'm trying to be as scientific as possible about this, so bear with me. As I said before, it's not something inherent within black people that is making them do this. Otherwise there would be no other races doing this, and I've seen hispanics and whites doing it as well, just not in as large of numbers. Which brings up another point. If all the media were racist and therefore maligned against black people, would you not see the same thing against hispanics? It would seem that anyone who would have this anti-black agenda would also carry an anti-hispanic agenda. This comes from experience of knowing ignorant people who are TRUE racists. It's easy to call someone as myself racist because I define many things by race. I grew up in northeast Georgia, and I'm white. However, defining things by race is different than being racist. Is it racist (now I mean the term that someone like Jesse Jackson would throw around, not the dictionary definition of it. The one with a negative connotation.) to say something like Germans seem to be great engineers? Look at all the evidence to support that fact? Does that mean no one else is as good? No, but it does mean that there seems to be an unusually large concentration of people in that area who are good at engineering. Being able to come up with this deduction does not make me racist against Germans. I could go on for every race of people, but that would take to much time. If you want a list, PM me and I'll see what I can do. Back to my point.

We need to find what causes these people to act in such a way. I don't think there is a group of people who are just evil. People aren't born evil, people make the choice to become evil. Sometimes insanity lends a hand to this, sometimes it's just a conscience choice. These people had a choice, and they chose to do malice. That's a fact, and you can't argue with that. I think the root of all of this is going to lie in the heart of the gangster culture. I'm going to have to agree with Bill O'Reilly on this point. Gangster Rap, drug dealers, gang bangers; all of this. This is what is causing this because these things are glorified in this culture. I think everyone can agree that these things are not good, yet they are glorified. And as a preemptive strike at being called a racist for hating gangster rap, let me go further. Just because it's black people making this music, doesn't make me mad. It makes me mad to see such a degredation of authority and absence of respect for your fellow man so rampant in that genre. That's not to say that it isn't present in other kinds of music, but you can't compare the percentages of songs containing these things between rock and rap. The figures are uncomparable. Now, I am all for tasteful rap. I think it takes a lot of talent to be able to rap, and freestyle. But to make songs about the topics that much rap contains these days takes a large amount a crassness. So in conclusion, it's a culture, not a race behind this. Unfortunately, that whole race is getting a bad name by the people who have embraced this culture wholeheartedly. It's sad, but until something can be done about this culture and any others that have a similar affect, I think that things like this are going to continue to happen. Wow, that's my last long diatribe about this subject. I've just been pretty pissed about what's going on down there, and how some people, and I'm not referring to people on this board, are making excuses for this behavior. There is no excuse, no matter what color you are. And as I said before, I hope they get shot soon so they can burn in hell faster. (Remeber I'm not pro-life, just anti-abortion in most cases) Thanks for reading, now I have to go ice down my fingers now. Everyone have a wonderful Labor Day!!!
 
In this same way each looter in New Orleans has their own specific reasons for doing what they are doing. Perhaps they see it as an opportunity to get some extra cash and feel they are entitled to it. Maybe they think that no one is going to want this stuff except them anyway. They possibly could just be going along with the leadership of someone close to them.

Whatever their reasons are, they are wrong. You don't steal a TV just because no one else is going to use it. That is wrong, that is wrong, and that is wrong. You can't use their reasoning to justify these acts. This isn't like one of those catch 22 things where you're caught either way doing something bad. They chose to steal, that's what it really is, let's not give it this lighter term of looting. That's like calling terrorists insurgents. Look, when you use the term stealing, it's much harder to condone what they are doing. Again, people taking food and what nought, fine, I'm glad, and I hope they find enough to keep them alive. But how can anyone justify stealing a TV, even if it isn't being used. I have a big screen in my basement. I only use it during football season. If the NFL were dibanded, is it ok to steal my tv? NO. Because it's mine, whether I'm there, or not, or it's getting ruined, or whatever. It's mine and not your. Making excuses for this behavior will be another step in the downfall of our society.

Ok, so I lied and made one more post. Sue me. :soapbox:
 
fossten said:
I would like to see, in quotes and in context, anything that remotely backs up this statement.

If you're going to call people racist on this forum, you'd better back it up with REAL, CONCRETE evidence.

We are all guilty of thinking from the group perspective first from time to time...I include myself in that.

Some folks are more likely to think from the group perspective however.

Thinking from the group perspective is what leads to the 'racist' comments.

Until then, you are just blowing typical, left wing wacko hot air.
^--prime example of thinking from the group perspective...and nicely backs up my previous assertion.
raVeneyes said:
The way you and others have said things on this board however shows that the thought process starts not with the person doing the action, but rather with the group that the person comes from.
 
MAllen82 said:
Whatever their reasons are, they are wrong. You don't steal a TV just because no one else is going to use it. That is wrong, that is wrong, and that is wrong. You can't use their reasoning to justify these acts.
Don't get me wrong...I'm not trying to justify their actions, rather I'm just trying to provide some examples of possible different motives.

In other words...I don't think these thieves are going out there and saying "I'm a black man and so I'm going to steal something today!" There are motives behind it and it's not because they're black.
 
Aaargh. Like I said. I don't think this is about race. It is about people taking advantage of other people.

Do you know how many people feel it is OK to steal Toilet Paper and pens and pencils and coffee, etc. etc. from their employer. Something like 80% of the population. Nobody understands that the owner of the company owns that stuff. It is like stealing directly out of his/her pocket. Might as well just reach in and take the money out of my pocket.

I remember how hurt I was to find out one of my employees was stealing product. These items were seconds, and he was only turned in by an angry spouse but after years of working for me, he still felt entitled to take from me.

See, "these people" see nothing wrong stealing from these companies. After all, is it really stealing to take from Wal-Mart and Foot-Locker. Those companies make enough money the way it is, right? I mean, those goods are going to be considered flood-damaged anyway so why not take them? Why? Because it is not yours. If the OWNER wants to give the stuff away, fine. If the insurance company wants to donate them to a charity, fine.

Stealing is stealing and those of you out there making excuses for these people is only encouraging the behavior. It is like a 16 year old kid stealing a car. He gets caught and because he is a minor, he is let loose on society to do it again and again. Do you think anyone of these people who were stealing were actually afraid of any ramnifications if they got caught? Not a one I'm willing to bet.

Btw, did New Yorkers 'loot' every store within a 2 mile radius of the towers.

Did the people of Homestead Florida loot every store when the hurricane hit there?

To ignore the obvious that there is a significant problem in the African-American community is simply to be burying your head in the dike.
 
To ignore the obvious that there is a significant problem in the African-American community is simply to be burying your head in the dike.

What, now you hate lesbians too??? :N
 
raVeneyes said:
Don't get me wrong...I'm not trying to justify their actions, rather I'm just trying to provide some examples of possible different motives.

In other words...I don't think these thieves are going out there and saying "I'm a black man and so I'm going to steal something today!" There are motives behind it and it's not because they're black.

Sure, that was what I was saying. It isn't their "blackness" to get a little Aquinan philosophy going, it is their "gangsterness". Does that suit you well? I think we are arguing away from the same thing, that it isn't because they are black, but I'm not sure what end you are arguing to. That's not a shot either, I just don't know where you are going, just where you came from, you know? Think of it as a club. Anyone can join, unfortunately it's membership as an unbalanced amount of black people in it. You can't deny that fact, whatever reason you want to put on it, you can't deny that fact.
 
MAllen82 said:
What, now you hate lesbians too??? :N

LOL you are great, dude...

Oh, by the way...

Raveneyes -

Thinking from the group perspective is what leads to the 'racist' comments.


Quote:
Until then, you are just blowing typical, left wing wacko hot air.

^--prime example of thinking from the group perspective...and nicely backs up my previous assertion.

I'm curious - just HOW does this make me a racist? That quotation makes me a "Fiberal-ist" at worst, but not a racist.
 
I think the racist card is being thrown around here too liberally (pun intended!!).
 

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