Sadly it is time to say bye to my LS

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lan_baba

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First of all, thanks to all the members here, learned a lot and got my questions answered, whether it is correct or not:p
I have posted last year about the high speed radiator fan problem before summer on my 2006 LS, and two different dealers couldn't figure out why.
Almost one year later, last month I took the car to a local garage (which is good reputation but not cheap), and the conclusion is there is exhaust gas in the coolant.:(:(:(. Very likely a head gasket or block crack. To fix that, will be more than 25 hundred $$$. I was thinking at that time since the problem have already been almost a year, I will just try my luck and see what happens, by not doing anything. Guess what, luck is not at my side! Today the car went overheat on the congested highway after been under the Florida sun for a whole day (normally it is in a covered garage, unfortunately I came to the office late today and have to park on the top floor without cover).
I have used several different site, include KBB, NADA, EDMUNDS to find out what the car worth for a trade in if there is no problem, and they averaged around 4500. And I took the car to the CarMax before I find the gasket problem, they only offer 3k (they didn't find any problem, but won't offer more because this is a ford with high mileage 105000). I should have took that offer!
I guess I need to find out how much I can get from a trade in now (maybe just a few hundred bucks) or just donate the car to NPR. Damn, I have no problem with the other works, breaks, standard fluid changes, end links, etc., but to change the head gasket, I don't think so.
Bye bye, ford, two ford since 2005, none of them (06 LS, 05 freestyle Limited) gave me a good experience. Guess I won't touch another ford until kids go to college and I can retire and have lots of time.
 
I'd imagine (but with no certainty) that if there was a leak allowing exhaust into the coolant, you'd see coolant in the exhaust as well (smoke). Any chance you just have cracking cooling components? The usual plastic stuff
 
A LS with a bad head gasket hahaha

I would say there's about a 98% chance it's not a headgasket problem.
 
It seems these cars are pretty good at protecting themselves in overheat conditions but if the attitude was drive it broken and see what happens, it very well might be toast. Sad to see a good car get scrapped as I try to keep my '02 alive.... can I have the rocker panels?
 
Both dealers and the garage did all the cooling system test, no leak, pressure ok, and I'm not loosing coolant. The garage find the exhaust in the coolant by using those combustion test fluid kit which you connect to the cooling system.
 
lan_baba said:
Both dealers and the garage did all the cooling system test, no leak, pressure ok, and I'm not loosing coolant.
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It rarely does. It takes a while. The first issue is the cracks form and let air out, depressurizing the system. The lwoer the pressure, the lower the boiling point. If it boils in the system, it creates gas pockets that don't conduct heat nearly well enough, so it overheats
 
LSFrank said:
It rarely does. It takes a while. The first issue is the cracks form and let air out, depressurizing the system. The lwoer the pressure, the lower the boiling point. If it boils in the system, it creates gas pockets that don't conduct heat nearly well enough, so it overheats
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But how can I explain that there is combustion gas in the coolant? Is there any other reason causing this?
 
lan_baba said:
But how can I explain that there is combustion gas in the coolant? Is there any other reason causing this?
Click to expand...

Bad test? BS?

Reminds me of those people at jiffy lube places that dip a stick in all your fluids and show you the color it is supposed to look like.

"See this is what your power steering fluid should look like, you need a flush asap"

This car doesn't even use traditional power steering fluid haha
 
I opened the hood and did some additional check.
The coolant is a little bit low, so I filled it to a little bit over low level. Then I took the car out for a test drive, including local, highway, idle for 15 minutes, total around 2 hours, no overheating. Maybe because it is night so outside temp is around 81F.
When I got back, I check the coolant again and found out that I lost quite a bit, about 1.5 inch below the low mark even the engine is hot. So I check again for any leaks, it seems there is some leak between the passenger side wheel well and the engine. Here is the two pictures I took. Does these two looks like the leaking parts or they just got spilled on from something else? P1040511.jpgP1040513.jpg

P1040511.jpg


P1040513.jpg
 
i think those are a/c lines and probably dye they use for finding leaks in that system. If wet, its likely just condensation.

The car likes to dump its coolant load after you shut it off and walk away. The degas tank is usually the culprit and it leaks down under the brake booster, coming out near the driver door hinge underneath the car (on the backside of the black fender guard/wheel well insert). You really need to buy a cooling system pressure tester and just test it yourself to 16 psi. You can test the cap with it too (please tell me those nimrods tested the cap). Bottom line is just like LSFrank said, if you can't get to pressure, then you're boiling and adding air to your system, then overheat.

Other times its the thermostat housing and you can get the aluminum one from rockauto.
If your auxilary coolant pump died, then coolant sits idle in a hot engine when you key off and it boils locally, adding air back to the system which causes, well you know by now...
Someone else on here took the time to create a thread listing all the cooling system parts and numbers. Take advantage of that along with the proper air bleed procedure. This car is PICKY and there is only one way to fill the system if it has gotten down to a certain point.

Like Stugots, I am also highly skeptical of their coolant exhaust test. But just because I've never heard of it doesn't mean it doesn't exist... they should test fresh coolant first to verify that reads good and go from there. I also don't understand (in the event of claimed blown head gasket) how the coolant can get trace exhaust gas in it, but yet no coolant in your exhaust with up to 16 psi trying to push it out (and somehow they claim passing pressure test).

I guess it still could be head gasket, but I think the coolant pressure test would have failed and the leak would either go out the side(s) of the base of the cylinder heads, or into the oil, or into a cylinder? Fix the rest of the cooling system to find out. Head gasket, if required, is not that hard to fix.
 
ordered a combustion gas test kit and will test the gas inside the coolant. Will report back the result.
 
I don't know how much clearer this forum can be.


The plastic parts of your cooling system need to be replaced and the system bled correctly. Everyone has the same problem. People that don't understand the cooling system always think it is the head gasket.
 
Thank you all for the updates. This is what I'm going to do now:
Order the pressure test kit and do the test (does the kit comes with instructions?). Or please anyone?
Get a list of the cooling system parts needed and compare with the ones I've already replaced since last year, so I only need to order the parts haven't been replaced.
Find a day to DIY or find some contract work to earn some money an let a garage do it. Anyone up to the challenge at Tampa area?
Will report back.
 
The pressure test kit comes with instructions. Its very easy. If you can change your own oil, you can do this. It takes about 10 minutes from the time it takes to get the tools out, and then put away.

If your degas tank was replaced with a dorman brand, they can fail after 6 months. Go Motorcraft or you'll be hosed again real soon.
 
I can change the oil, just find it is a mess comparing let someone else do it. I did changed the transmission fluid on my freestyle by myself once.
 
02LincLS said:
i think those are a/c lines and probably dye they use for finding leaks in that system. If wet, its likely just condensation.....
Click to expand...

Those are heater lines. They do carry coolant, and the quick disconnects could be leaking. It is also possible that coolant is spraying there from a crack in the radiator or a leak in the DCCV or the aux pump. The upper radiator hose is also suspect. This is why we say to replace all the plastic parts at once. It can be hard to tell which is leaking, and they all start to go at about the same time anyway.

Here's a test for you. Wait till the engine is cold. Fill the reservoir if needed. Now start the engine and hit the gas pedal. Keep the RPMs at 3K for just under a minute. Now shut down. Loosen the degas bottle cap. If there is a lot of hissing and pressure relief, then you probably do have a warped head or bad head gasket. If not, then it's probably just the normal cracking plastic parts. This kind of problem in the LS looks very much like a head gasket problem in other cars. Their hydrocarbon test may have been inconclusive or they may have screwed up. Since they were probably already convinced this was a head gasket problem (from the symptoms), they probably had a big case of confirmation bias going.

Coolant anywhere does mean you have a leak or leaks. Having a leak doesn't make it impossible that you also have a head problem, but the odds are somewhere around 99% that it is just a leak issue, like they all get.
 
stugots said:
A pressure test won't do anything.
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Well, many times it will help find the problem, but for sure, it won't always help or even show that there is a problem. Been there, done that...
 
joegr said:
Those are heater lines. They do carry coolant, and the quick disconnects could be leaking. It is also possible that coolant is spraying there from a crack in the radiator or a leak in the DCCV or the aux pump. The upper radiator hose is also suspect. This is why we say to replace all the plastic parts at once. It can be hard to tell which is leaking, and they all start to go at about the same time anyway.
Click to expand...

Thanks for correcting me. I was convinced since they were metal but I just looked and I see them going to the DCCV.
 
I saw a video a few months ago. If you have had a head gasket leak for some time, the cylinders would be pretty clean due to the decarbonization because coolant is getting into the cylinder. Try looking into the cylinder chamber and see if you see it suspiciously clear. If one piston is clean and others have the usual buildup of carbon, then it is a head gasket. If none is clean, look elsewherE
 
GoFar said:
I saw a video a few months ago. If you have had a head gasket leak for some time, the cylinders would be pretty clean due to the decarbonization because coolant is getting into the cylinder. Try looking into the cylinder chamber and see if you see it suspiciously clear. If one piston is clean and others have the usual buildup of carbon, then it is a head gasket. If none is clean, look elsewherE
Click to expand...

It's even easier than that. If you're burning antifreeze the exhaust will have a sweetish smell to it.
 
I dug out my maintenance records since last year, and compare with the cooling system overhaul post here, and found out I have most of the part already replaced, except: 5W4Z-8A080-AA(degas tank) and 4Z-9F814-AA(Rubber Hose from Block to 8548A). I will take some time this weekend and replace the degas tank and let's see what happens.:confused:
 
There is no any OEM degas tank in any of the stores nearby. And from the review here and other sites, the Dorman one is POS. Guess I have to wait and order from the dealer. Ahh.
 
lan_baba said:
There is no any OEM degas tank in any of the stores nearby. And from the review here and other sites, the Dorman one is POS. Guess I have to wait and order from the dealer. Ahh.
Click to expand...

Or Rock Auto.....
 
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