Students for a better America

Randeaux, KBob and CaptZ, I too feel your pain about having only 2 real choices in most elections. Who else here besides me voted for Ross Perot?

The unfortunate lesson I learned about that election and voting for the 3rd party was, the guy that I DIDN'T want to win still got elected. So in reality, we really only have 2 choices. I'm disgusted as well about all the mud-slinging being done by both camps. However, the 1st punches below the belt in this campaign were landed by the GOP. Kerry, for the most part, was taking the high road, even after the SBVT crap came out. In fact he didn't really take the gloves off until after the RNC. So who is playing the dirtiest politics this round? You be the judge.

KBob, after re-reading the "59 deceits in F-9/11" from the link you provided, I re-watched the movie last night. All I can say is PFFT! After all the apparent detailed scrutiny that was conducted on that film to come up with that list of 59 "deceits", they only found 59?? Am I to believe that the other 2000 (OK, maybe I exaggerate a tad w/ this #, but there is ALOT) facts, figures, assertions and implications made in this movie are undisputable? Additionally, many of those 59 "deceits" are nits on insignificant details that have no real bearing on MM's overall "thesis". Did MM take editoral liberties to press or exagerate his point? YES! However, if you ignore the 59 "deceits" in the movie, you are left with a thread......... no....... a rope of truth about the deception used by GW to go to war in Iraq.

Are you willing to throw out the baby just because it pooped in the bathwater? DON'T pass judgement until you've seen it yourself. In fact, print out the 59 "deceits" and study those parts of the movie. Besides, there are some very entertaining parts in there: The overlay of "Santa Claus is Coming to Town" on the footage of a Xmas eve invasion of an Iraqi home is genious, maybe twisted, but genious none the less.

So far, CaptZ is the only one posting in this thread besides myself that admits to seeing that movie. While we obviously disagree on it, at least I can respect his opinion on it. Don't wait until after 11/2 to see it.
 
Hey Johnny, there's an opening at "60 Minutes" for an investigative reporter that requires someone with just your way of thinking. Sorry pal, you can sell your crap somewhere else with your "MM is basically telling the truth" and "the GOP is guiltier than the Dems at mud slinging."

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You know what's sad? I really liked Moore. I even bought one of his books and intently read it. He's a very good story teller. Then I read all this stuff online about him being a liar, so I delved deeper into it. Man, I felt like such a tool for believing him. I suppose it's a life lesson though: Trust nothing until verification is done. This is why I go beyond disliking this man, he's SO good at lying that it's hard to tell until you dig into it.
 
barry2952 said:
I have a feeling that MonsterMark is, in reality, a little man. It would take 12 of him and his friends to kick the crap out of a teenager. Grow up MonsterMark.
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I'll be nice even though it is against my better judgement. But take the high road I shall.

Barry, please go back and take a look at the post made by MarkofDeath (M.o.D.). He said it was a club, and used the term kid(s), indicating more than one. Maybe even a group. From the 'tone' of his post, it sounded like this "group" liked to pick on and single out guys like MarkofDeath, especially for their political views. I know M.o.D. and I happen to like the guy. I believe in watching people's backs. So, my simple offer was if he wished to go to the movie/party uninhibited, I would be more than happy to come down and support him. And if needed, bring a bunch of friends and make a night of it. We go down to Chicago all the time. Stopping at a party and getting in some people's faces actually sounds like a good idea, especially in this political season, and even better, at a Michael Moore shindig. I'd be in my element.

I have confronted many Reagan, Bush 41 and Bush 43 hating punks in my life and they usually need to be showed up to be exposed as the true punks they are. See, they only 'act out' when they are within their group. As loners, they seldom make eye contact, much less 'act out'.

So Barry, if you call a person willing to watch a friend's backside as being a "little man", that's your problem, not mine. M.o.D. knows if he ever needs a hand, I'll be there. Maybe saying kick the crap out them was a little strong, but I wouldn't hesitate at all to defend the reputation and policies of our nation's President, and if push came to shove, the punks would definitely get punked.

Hopefully, that clears things up for ya.

This, btw, was the toughest post I have ever had to make.
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Hopefully Barry, this post will demonstrate to you how personal attacks are not welcome or tolerated on this board. You have taken a whole bunch of pot shots at me recently but I will continue to demonstrate to the membership that it is alot of fun to agree to disagree without having to resort to personal attacks.
 
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JohnnyBz00LS said:
Besides, there are some very entertaining parts in there: The overlay of "Santa Claus is Coming to Town" on the footage of a Xmas eve invasion of an Iraqi home is genious, maybe twisted, but genious none the less.
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But I thought this was a documentary? If you want to see a real documentary, make sure you watch or go buy "Stolen Honor". I guarantee you that after watching this real documentary about REAL war heros and the Prisoners of War that Kerry tortured, you will join the rest of us expending all of our energies to make sure this Kerry guy never steps foot in the White House. Also read 'Unfit for Command' which rebuts every claim Kerry ever made about his war record.

It seems that Kerry is hiding his Less-than-Honorable Discharge from the military. It is curious that it wasn't until 1985 that he had his medals and ribbons re-issued and it wasn't until 1991 that he was actually given a Honorable-Discharge. Which explains why Kerry won't sign the Military 180 form releasing all of his records. He is a total fabrication and a product of the liberal left wing in this country. We will suffer unthinkable tragedies here at home and around the world if this guy is elected President.
 
Randeaux said:
To conclude, If Mr.Moore lied 15 years ago, how would I know if he's being honest now?
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Exactly. We know that Kerry lied about his war record and has exhibited treasonous behavior against the United States. How can we trust him again. That is the exact argument that the 'Swift Boats and POW's for Truth' are trying to make.

So I don't know how you could possibly vote for a third party candidate that has absolutely no chance of being elected. What you need to do is hold your nose and vote for Bush, let him serve out his term and then the country can start with a clean slate in 2008 and maybe even bring in Hillary.
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The Democrats nominated a guy that shouldn't have been nominated in the first place, but Democrats are unwilling to acknowledge their mistake. Ask the Kerry supporters why they support Kerry and you will find very few that support him for his beliefs, policies and/or track record. He is the Anti-Candidate. And that should be very troubling to you. Kerry could very well wind up in a year as a President with an 80% disapproval rating. Is that possibility really worth your 3rd party vote?
 
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Originally posted by: MonsterMark
So I don't know how you could possibly vote for a third party candidate that has absolutely no chance of being elected.
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To reply,(with utmost respect) Did you understand the first half of my thread?
To elaborate, BOTH PARTIES ARE ONE AND THE SAME NOW! In fact, your statement I quoted reminds me of the Democrats right after the 2000 election. Were they using the same angst at the third party because Gore lost?" If it wasn't for Nader(Third Party...)Gore would have won!" Don't worry, I won't make that mistake again :slam . But I have found a political party that matches up with my core beliefs in personal freedom, Personal LIBERTY, (BIG HINT)the idea that the Government should primarily exist for the protection of our country(and not interfere with ANY aspect of our lives). I have researched all possible political theories very well and the Libertarian party is the party I choose. I do not like the way the Liberals run our lives by telling me how stupid I am for being a minority(American-Mexican) and I feel that is what they are telling me is: that I HAVE TO vote Democratic because I, and others such as myself are the poor and uneducated unfortunate because my last name ends with a "Z" and Mestizo blood runs through me. On the other hand,I do not appreciate the way the Republicans trying to tell everyone how to live their lives either.
I feel (being raised Catholic) yes, Abortion is MURDER However, I also feel that it is ultimately a woman's choice to do with the fetus as she needs to do.I know it is not my right to tell a woman what/what not to do with her body{even if she was my own Girlfriend/Wife etc...} I am not at all gay, but what right do I have to tell what two CONSENTING ADULTS whom and whom not they could marry. And on the SIN factor of it all, Dosen't the Bible itself tell us not to judge others, but to let the SINNERS deal with God themselves?(in so many words....) My Father went to Viet-Nam, Both of my Grandfathers served during WWII, My Father also retired from the USAF, and I work for the DOD, and I feel that what both parties have become, literally s#@+ on what they, and many other family members & friends, etc. have gone off to fight for. I hope this gives you a clearer picture of my informed choice MonsterMark.( Again, No Disrespect.)

TO:JohnnyBZooLS: I voted for Ross Perot in '96!
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P.s. MonsterMark: And also I realize my choice of whom I vote for this time around may not get elected, but, there is a growing movement out there of people such as myself who are growing sicker and sicker of the current offerings and like myself, are seeking out an alternative to this current grey, gelatinous goo of a government we are currently in. (You're all-right*, my friend.) ( *no pun intended)

I would not vote for Kerry anyways! (don't worry) (or Bush,sorry :biggrin: )
 
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Randeaux, hey, your name end in an "x", not a "z".
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Great post by the way, and thanks for sharing your viewpoints. I also agree with many of the Libertarian viewpoints and I am probably closer aligned to them policy-wise than I am to the Republicans. But here is where I have drawn the line.

Ross Perot set the Reform Party and the whole concept of the 3rd party movement back 20 years, IMHO. I didn't like him as a candidate whatsover. In fact, I thought he was a little crazy. But when he announced Adm. Stockdale as his running mate and that guy got up there and said: "Who am I? Why am I here?", that set the 3rd party system back those 20 years. They are still trying to recover.

Sooo, in the meantime, what to do? I will tell you why I will never vote 3rd party and when I will.

I know full well that of the voting electorate, at least 42% of the vote goes to all of the mindless robots with their hands out hoping for the freebies that the Democrats promise them every election. There will always be that 42% out there. So do I put myself in a position of allowing the Democrats to win and enact all the legislation that I believe is poison to our society, or do I mitigate any political advances they might make by making sure the "lesser of 2 evils" maintains power?

Until the 3rd party system can put a candidate up for election that has a strong shot at winning at least 38% of the vote, count me out of the process, no matter what.

I at least want and need my vote to cancel out one mind-numbed robot that has been brainwashed by our lousy public education system in conjunction with, and enabled by, the liberal elite media in this country.

In conclusion, show me a shot at 38% or I stay firmly planted on the right side of the equation.

P.S.

I am sure if you and me had a cervesa, we would have a lot in common. I have personally helped to raise up the Mexican-American community where I live by never hesitating to hire latinos. I have hired over 250 people from this community over the last 15 years and always found them to be honest, hard-working people and I really appreciate the close knit families they have. One couple even named their child after me, which to this day, I still consider one of the greatest compliments a person could get. I wish the African-American community would takes some notes of the work ethic I have seen first-hand. This country would certainly be the better for it.

Take care.
 
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iGracias! I do understand exactly where your coming from.
Now, about that cervesa, My shift ends in 15 minutes, and I can be in Atlanta by 5 minutes to 1 (would be sooner, but there's a speed trap on I-75 going through Forsyth.) Where you wanna hook-up at? :biggrin: :Beer
(iORALE!) :waving:
(enunciated "OH-DuH-LAAAAY!) (closest meaning=Duuuude! or w'sup?)

(that's y'all's lesson for today)
:L
 
Dammmmm! as I'm gettin ready, th'lil'ol'wummun called up and wants Ho-Ho's and Zima!
Skank'd again! ;(
 
Put in plain english: iSenor Moore estoy pinche entidoso!
c'mon don't you know this? It is simple phonetically spelled Spanish?
I thought the government-runned schools made Spanish a requirement?
(Oh, but what do I know? I'm one of them poor& less-fortunate HISPANICS out there.) (Maybe I can aspire to a bright future in agriculture of construction?) ( That's what the woman told me @ the GDOL told me when I moved here 7 yrs.ago, Imagine that!)
If you don't understand read about 4-6 posts back!
 
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Sorry y'all I don't mean to be so bitter and/or inadvertantly make this a race thing.
If you could see where I'm coming from, you might understand my disdain for Mr. Moore. It's kinda like when your parents tell you about Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny when they think you're old enough to handle it. There was someone you felt you could believe-in, then later on you find out that what you were told was nothing but lies and you feel really stupid, because you bought the lie hook,line and sinker.
(by the way: I said Mr. Moore was a f#$%#@g liar in the previous post, in plain, simple English:) )
 
So......... exactly WHEN is this "documentary" Stolen Honor suppose to air? I don't want to miss it. I want to be sure to give all sides an equal shot at my vote. :N
 
JohnnyBz00LS said:
So......... exactly WHEN is this "documentary" Stolen Honor suppose to air? I don't want to miss it. I want to be sure to give all sides an equal shot at my vote.
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You paid to watch "Fahrenheit 911" didn't you? Then pay for "Stolen Honor", or for "FahrenHYPE 911", whichever. Make sure and tell us what you think of those when you do.
 
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