Ted Kennedy Dead.

shagdrum said:
(I have already shown where justice has been served to a small degree in this case).
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Maybe to "you" justice was served..since your an unaffected third party.

If it was YOUR child left to drown, I doubt you'd feel that Ted living out the rest of his life "as a kennedy" with all the perks that go with the title..would be ANY form of consolation to you.

In fact.. I'll bet "ole teds" dying just reopened old wounds for the family.

a stark reminder of how a "mob family" can kill your relative and get away with it.. not ONLY get away with it, but to PROSPER IN LIFE..


Who would have thought his "LIVER" would outlive his BRAIN?
wow.

shagdrum said:
All that will result is a 5(+) pages of your distortions and my corrections.
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It's "TAKES TWO" to dance..if you dont have TWO then your just a cheerleader.

You seem to "enable" these 5(+) page debates and some of the stuff you say makes NO sense to the common man.

how did "cosmic" get drug into this?

shagdrum said:
I was referring to justice in the traditional ideal, "cosmic" sense of the term and placing it, as best as it can be applied, to this situation. In that sense (the sense in which the entire criminal justice system and our government is founded on), .
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^ WTF are you smoking bro?
 
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foxpaws said:
No justice was served by Kennedy dying a natural death - not even 'close' as you claim Shag. ;)
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Um...how is contracting brain cancer a 'natural death?' :rolleyes: Sounds like a foreshadowing of Obama's death panels is already on the way.
 
Gee, now he is gonna have his very own "Big Dig" in Arlington cemetery.
Bob.
 
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fossten said:
Um...how is contracting brain cancer a 'natural death?' :rolleyes: Sounds like a foreshadowing of Obama's death panels is already on the way.
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Really - Foss - do you have a clue about what you are talking about?
 
cammerfe said:
He lived out his life. She died an untimely death. He was a coward.
KS
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Yes I agree and he should have been trown in jail for a long time for that cowardly act. I never felt any sympaty for the man.
 
It's been a day....

2818964050_db877945c9.jpg
 
shagdrum said:
Yes, and there is no reason to inject different religions into it. Do you even understand where the idea of justice comes from? How it evolved?
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The idea of natural justice that derives from the Romans shag?

Or maybe the idea of justice as Divine command?

How about justice as authoritative command?

Has the notion of justice been constant over time? Of course not. Does some given society or religion contain your 'constant' concept of justice simply because they have a system of laws and punishment?

Justice is not a constant - and hopefully you aren't planning to go to law school Shag - they will tear you apart on that statement.

What would your definition/explanation of justice be?
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The legal definition?
The balanced and equitable administration of law.​

Here - when dealing with 'justice served' as pertains to a crime...
the administering of deserved punishment or reward​

How about you Shag - what is your 'definition'?

No, that would be emotion based; vengence. Can you explain the distinction?
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How many in society would view it as justice served? In the case of the father, it would be vengeance, but would the act of vengeance result in the correct punishment that justice would have demanded eventually? You seem to think so Shag - even Ted's death by natural causes is some 'small degree' of justice, wouldn't his death at the hand of MaryJo's father be a 'large degree' of justice. That is where your logic is taking this shag.

Why don't you go back and read what I said instead of distorting it.
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And why don't you just explain it to me (us) again Shag - obviously I am not the only one to misunderstand your statements...

If I thought you would treat my claims with honest consideration and good faith, I would be happy to clarify things (I have already shown where justice has been served to a small degree in this case). However, your history on this forum (and pattern in this thread) shows that engaging in these discussions with you is a waste of time and energy. All that will result is a 5(+) pages of your distortions and my corrections.
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Shag - quit dancing around this -
Show me where justice has been served.​
Where is the even smallest degree of justice in this case? You haven't shown anyone anything here shag. According to your logic all crime will have justice served, even if only to a small degree because, eventually, everyone dies.

Dishonest would be more accurate, but your actions have already well established that. It doesn't need to be said at this point...
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And once again, you are quick to interject dishonest - ready to walk away Shag? I think more and more people are beginning to get it shag. If the water gets a little hot - when you and your empirical little statements are questioned, you resort to form don't you?
 
He had expensive surgery for his brain tumor only a few months ago.
If he was a regular guy would he have gotten his treatment under ObamaCare?
In hindsight was it a waste of resourses for him to have had this surgery?

On the other hand Barbara Bush recently had heart surgery and she's doing fine.
 
04SCTLS said:
He had expensive surgery for his brain tumor only a few months ago.
If he was a regular guy would he have gotten his treatment under ObamaCare?
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Ding, ding, ding, we have a winner.

Afte they look at your IRS returns, a bureaucrat will make a judgement on what your life is worth. If you have voted for Democrats, they will likely attempts to preserve your life if they feel you might make to the next election. If not, bye, bye.

You think I'm kidding? Read the damn bill. It's in there.

[ Section 431(a) of the bill says that the IRS must divulge taxpayer identity information, including the filing status, the modified adjusted gross income, the number of dependents, and "other information as is prescribed by" regulation. That information will be provided to the new Health Choices Commissioner and state health programs and used to determine who qualifies for "affordability credits." ]
 
personally, I think "brain cancer" is what the rest of the world would call Liver disease.
Calling it brain cancer was to put sympathy into the equation.

If he died from a failed liver, people would say.. SCREW HIM, he drank himself to death.

This way, he gets to pull on America's Heartstrings in typical "mob family" Kennedy fashion

I dont believe for a second he died from brain cancer.
 
MonsterMark said:
Ding, ding, ding, we have a winner.

Afte they look at your IRS returns, a bureaucrat will make a judgement on what your life is worth. If you have voted for Democrats, they will likely attempts to preserve your life if they feel you might make to the next election. If not, bye, bye.

You think I'm kidding? Read the damn bill. It's in there.
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MM - 'they' can tell party affiliation by your tax returns? If that were the case everyone could check the (non-existent) Democrat box to confuse the issue - right? ;)
 
foxpaws said:
The idea of natural justice that derives from the Romans shag?

Or maybe the idea of justice as Divine command?

How about justice as authoritative command?
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Can you say "distinction without difference"?

In all the ideas you mention, the application may be a little difference, but the basic ideal is the same.

Justice is not a constant - and hopefully you aren't planning to go to law school Shag - they will tear you apart on that statement.
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...doubt it.

Shag - quit dancing around this -
Show me where justice has been served.​
Where is the even smallest degree of justice in this case? You haven't shown anyone anything here shag. According to your logic all crime will have justice served, even if only to a small degree because, eventually, everyone dies.


And once again, you are quick to interject dishonest - ready to walk away Shag? I think more and more people are beginning to get it shag. If the water gets a little hot - when you and your empirical little statements are questioned, you resort to form don't you?
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Now you are working to smear me, a pattern it seems when called on your dishonesty. Instead of, in any way defending yourself, you mock and belittle me with distortions and lies. You know that my pattern has not been "walk away" when "the water gets a little hot". Some of the longest threads on this forum have been due to our back and fourth. I have stopped engaging in that because it is futile; you cannot reason with someone who refuses to be reasonable.

And again, you have show a complete lack of good faith here, I see no reason to waste time on you.

You still haven't even answered some of my questions, why should I attempt to have an honest discussion with you then?

Specifically, there is this question...Don't you ever have any interest in understanding a point of view instead of just critiquing it and propagandizing? You have said you do, but your actions consistently show that you don't. Which should be believed; your words or your actions?
 
XLRVIII said:
Maybe to "you" justice was served..since your an unaffected third party.

If it was YOUR child left to drown, I doubt you'd feel that Ted living out the rest of his life "as a kennedy" with all the perks that go with the title..would be ANY form of consolation to you.

In fact.. I'll bet "ole teds" dying just reopened old wounds for the family.

a stark reminder of how a "mob family" can kill your relative and get away with it.. not ONLY get away with it, but to PROSPER IN LIFE..
Click to expand...

Justice does not equal vengeance. As such, it is in no way based in emotions or perceptions, especially of the victim(s). Weather or not the family felt they received any degree of justice here is irrelevant to weather or not they actually did. The feelings/perceptions of the victim do not determine weather justice had been served.

It's "TAKES TWO" to dance..if you dont have TWO then your just a cheerleader.

You seem to "enable" these 5(+) page debates and some of the stuff you say makes NO sense to the common man.
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So...I should let her spout her distortions and lies without challenging them? Look at what is happening here; you are already accepting her false premise that justice is based in the feelings/perceptions of the victim(s); that justice is basically vengeance. That false premise shouldn't be corrected?

If something I say doesn't make sense, you are always more then welcome to inquire about it in the thread or in private and I will attempt to provide a better explanation. However, some of those discussions are about things already understood between her and I in previous threads and I see no reason in rehashing those in responding to her.

how did "cosmic" get drug into this?
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The view of justice as an ideal is based in the writings of Plato and is commonly referred to as cosmic justice. While many other ideas of Plato's concerning justice have been highly criticized and mostly rejected, that view of justice as an ideal has been generally accepted and remains constant through any and all evolutions of the concept of justice. It is part of the core of the idea of justice; the ideal that "the world ought to be such that people motivated by reason and goodness have good lives and that bad lives result from unreasonable or immoral motivations".

That very basic ideal serves as the basis for the concept of justice, in any "form". It is the cornerstone of any system of justice and the concept of the rule of law that our country was founded on.

Any and all "forms" or systems of justice are an attempt to approximate that ideal inasmuch as the contingencies of life allow.
 
Hey, my opinions are not based on what any nuthugger in this thread has said.

I am a man of my own convictions, and your meaningless ditribes are just that..meaningless.

So your attempt at "lumping me into" the foxpaws category is an epic failure.

You mention Plato, and cosmic and abunch of other BS words that have NO relevance in 2009.

Take your cosmic, plato loving views elsewhere.. your just whoring up this thread with MEANINGLESS BULLCRAP.


It is very arrogant and idiotic for YOU to say that ANY form of justice as been served, you know nothing of how the family views {not FEELS) this situation.

Let's drown one of your kids and see how you feel?

until you experience something like this you are again spouting MEANINLESS DRIVEL.

So much meaningless drivel you are exactly ONE STUPID POST from making the very short list of my "ignore list".

Go ahead ..MAKE MY FUGGING DAY
 
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XLRVIII said:
So your attempt at "lumping me into" the foxpaws category is an epic failure.
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No need for personal attacks...

When did I ever "lump you in" with foxpaws?

Why would the ideal of justice not be relevant to this discussion? Especially considering I was the one who first injected the idea of justice into this thread, wouldn't my understanding of the idea be relevant in it's application to this situation by me?

also...nuthugger? I gotta remember that one...
 
foxpaws said:
MM - 'they' can tell party affiliation by your tax returns? If that were the case everyone could check the (non-existent) Democrat box to confuse the issue - right? ;)
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The second line about party affiliation was my doing. should have put a smiley or something in there. But this is where things are heading. If you don't think party affiliation has anything to do with this, you are so naive.

Half of this fiasco is to give a freebie to the illegals so they support Democrats in local, state and federal governments, thus guaranteeing their power-base in future elections.
 
I am curious to know what the family thinks and feels right now, not that we'll ever know. To me, that does have some bearing on the situation. It may pain them to bring all this up. It may infuriate them that complete strangers are using the memory of their family member to make a political point. But maybe not. Maybe they are thankful that she is not forgotten, and that the perceived or real injustice is being recognized. Either way, it's something to think about before hasty comments are made. But this isn't exactly the forum for that. :shifty: The Bible verse "Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?" comes to mind right now, so I think I'll just shut up. :D
 
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