The anxiously awaited Foxpaws' school voucher thread

[lincolnx2]

Foss, I think you are grossly misrepresenting public schools by calling them athiest. Most people in the world believe in God or some other being, Just because they are taking prayer out of school, does not mean they are "Athiest Public Schools". I had a situation similar to that, my unit prayed before every mission, we had a new kid who was a athies, so to make him feel more comfortable, I made to the decision, not to hold prayers any more, it wasnt becaue we didn't believe in a higher being, it was because none of us want to be outcasted. Public schools are faced with the same dilemma, they have been charged with the task of making every child feel accepted.

I was reading an article that gave light to the Public VS Privaate school debate, one thing I remember is who will accredidate these privat schools, who will make sure these "teachers" are able to teach, private school teachers aren't required to hold a teaching certificate, like public school teachers are. Private schools aren't required to have a Special needs program, or participate in assesment testing. Who will govern these schools? Who will hold them to standards?

 

[fossten]

Foss, I think you are grossly misrepresenting public schools by calling them athiest. Most people in the world believe in God or some other being, Just because they are taking prayer out of school, does not mean they are "Athiest Public Schools". I had a situation similar to that, my unit prayed before every mission, we had a new kid who was a athies, so to make him feel more comfortable, I made to the decision, not to hold prayers any more, it wasnt becaue we didn't believe in a higher being, it was because none of us want to be outcasted. Public schools are faced with the same dilemma, they have been charged with the task of making every child feel accepted.

Funny, I thought the purpose of a public school was to teach the three R's instead of that New Age feelgood crap. Also, note that public schools have ostracized and persecuted Christian children. I can prove that. Also, look how the government schools treat those teachers or students who are interested in debate about evolution and ID.

I was reading an article that gave light to the Public VS Privaate school debate, one thing I remember is who will accredidate these privat schools, who will make sure these "teachers" are able to teach, private school teachers aren't required to hold a teaching certificate, like public school teachers are. Private schools aren't required to have a Special needs program, or participate in assesment testing. Who will govern these schools? Who will hold them to standards?

It's none of the government's business how parents educate their children. I'm not opposed to standardized testing, but only if vouchers are involved.

 

[lincolnx2]

Funny, I thought the purpose of a public school was to teach the three R's instead of that New Age feelgood crap. Also, note that public schools have ostracized and persecuted Christian children. I can prove that. Also, look how the government schools treat those teachers or students who are interested in debate about evolution and ID.

Were they persecuted because an athiest child complained, or were they persucuted because the pricipal doesn't think there is a God. If more kids enter private schools, you don't think some of those kids will be athiest. What will happen when Tommy from California starts at your childs school and is uncomfortable praying in the A.M, you dont think they will end prayer in your childs school.

It's none of the government's business how parents educate their children. I'm not opposed to standardized testing, but only if vouchers are involved.

It's none of the governments business now, because they dont provide vouchers for private schools, but it will be if they start passing out vouchers.
You might be asking for something you don't really want.

 

[foxpaws]

More straw men. I never argued for the wealthy and middle class. This isn't an argument. It's a rant. And it's not relevant.

Foss, you were the one that introduced the fact that vouchers were for poor and minority students...

However in post #47 you suddenly make it about you - that now you need to be included. So, it isn't about poor or minorities - it is really about something else - what is it really about foss?

Ad hominem. What was your point again? You clearly don't like your arguments used against you. So you now admit to the truth - that you're all about you. You can't argue this position without incriminating yourself.

Foss - I am about the constitution - yes, things that protect me. My right to have representation for my tax money. You still can't get around this.

Again, this isn't a relevant argument, just a condescending lecture. You still haven't demonstrated how my tax dollars are represented. You've managed to make your entire argument depend on whether or not atheism is a religion.

Private schools want tax money without any accountability - correct foss? Public schools have accountability and private ones currently don't. Unless private schools have public accountability for funds that come from taxes collected from the public, they shouldn't be allowed tax funds.

Foss- you are the one that brought religion into this - not me - you are the one that claims that atheism is being taught in schools as a religion. You keep bringing religion into this. You want to go down the establishment route, but, until you can prove to me that there is representation for the public's taxes when they go to a private school (once again foss, any private school - secular, religious, military, it really makes no difference), then you can't show me where the vouchers would be taxation with representation.

I have shown where your tax dollars are being represented in the public school system. Just because you don't exercise the rights that you are allowed doesn't mean they aren't there. So, I would like to exercise my rights if public tax funds are funneled to private schools, want to work out a scenario for that foss?

Remember Foss - once any private school takes public funds, a entire chain of events starts to happen, according to law, the least of which is representation for those tax funds.

 

[foxpaws]

That's the biggest joke of an argument you've ever made. Your ignorance knows no bounds.

From the ATHEIST website linked above:

Foss - understand math? Atheist is the empty subset of religion - or the null set. It is the 'zero' set.

 

[hrmwrm]

atheism is a term for rejection of deity. even fossten is atheistic in some ways. i'm sure he doesn't accept any other deity than those prescribed by his particular religion.
i just personally happen to go a little farther than many who hold a single belief. which is where the term is coined to belong to, is those who reject all beliefs. but actually, everyone is an athiest about something.
from fosstens link

In one way, most people in North America are Atheists. Christians will generally deny the existence of the Mayan, Hindu, Ancient Roman, Ancient Greek, Ancient Egyptian, Ancient Sumerian, Sikh, and many hundreds of other Gods and Goddesses, even as they assert their belief in the Christian Trinity. Thus, the difference between a typical Christian and a typical Atheist is numerically small: The strong Atheist believes that none of the many thousands of Gods and Goddesses exist; the Christian believes that one God exists in a certain structure -- a Trinity -- whereas all of the other thousands of deities are nonexistent, artificial creations by humans. Although the numerical difference is much less that 0.1%, the philosophical difference is immense.

it is a term, not a religion. although it is applied to those who are fully atheistic of all. although correct, the term can be applied to anybody who holds only 1 belief while rejecting others as well. it only has a strong meaning of complete disbelief to those who have a belief. and of course, just to stop confusion, is usually only applied to those of complete disbelief.

 

[fossten]

Link

In a startling acknowledgment that the Los Angeles school system cannot improve enough schools on its own, the city Board of Education approved a plan Tuesday that could turn over 250 campuses — including 50 new multimillion-dollar facilities — to charter groups and other outside operators.

The plan, approved on a 6-1 vote, gives Supt. Ramon C. Cortines the power to recommend the best option to run some of the worst-performing schools in the city as well as the newest campuses. Board member Marguerite Poindexter LaMotte dissented. …

The action signals a historic turning point for the Los Angeles Unified School District, which has struggled for decades to boost student achievement. District officials and others have said their ability to achieve more than incremental progress is hindered by the powerful teachers union, whose contract makes it nearly impossible to fire ineffective tenured teachers. Union leaders blame a district bureaucracy that they say fails to include teachers in “top-down reforms.”

“The premise of the resolution is first and foremost to create choice and competition,” said board member Yolie Flores Aguilar, who brought the resolution, “and to really force and pressure the district to put forth a better educational plan.”

 

[foxpaws]

Foss - you want to see just the tip of the regulation 'iceberg' that the LA School District requires that their charter schools and outside school operators meet? Here is just the overview....

The people of Los Angeles tax dollars are well 'represented'.