The Downfall of my Lincoln LS

[BigDaddyBabby]

Hey there everyone. New member Mike here in search of some insight on if I have destroyed my Lincoln LS by running lower octane gas in it for a few months. It is stressing me out as I look into it more and more and find out that is a good way to get a rod knock because it messes with timing. Please help me out with any info you may have, whether it be from personal experience or things you know. I have researched my issue many times, have had multiple people look at it, but it seems the cause of my problems could be dozens and dozens of things.

Just some quick background on my car, it is an 01 V6. I purchased it 2 years ago with 78k on it and today it now has 107k on it. At time of purchase it ran awesome...up until about October of last year (3 months ago). Now I will admit, what worries me, is that I ran lower octane gas at times. Not everytime, but yes frequently. So about October of last year, the car started stuttering real bad when starting up. It was to the point that when I would stop at stoplights, the car would actually die. Not all the time, but it was common. Another little note is that the CEL never did flash to indicate a misfire. So, being as I was crossing over to 100k territory, I figured, time for a tune up. New plugs and coils.

Me being broke and going through some financial hardships at the moment, I grabbed a 6 pack of coils off of Ebay for around $75 shipped and stopped at Autozone for 6 Bosch platinum plugs. Took the intake off, replaced coils (cylinder 1,2,and 3 had oil on end of coils) and plugs. Now I know with the oil I should have replaced the VC gaskets but this is my daily driver and did not have the time at the moment. I crossed my fingers and hoped I could make it to tax season in which I plan to have some work done, which is very soon. I put it all back together and it ran better, but not that great still. It would no longer die at stops, but still rough. And now the CEL was flashing, which it hadn't done up until this quick tune up. Cylinder 4 was the culprit. Bad coil had been ruled out because I took the coil off of cylinder 5 and swapped it to 4 and vice versa, and still misfire on cylinder 4. Put a new plug in, still misfire on cylinder 4. I pulled the coil out with a plug in it and ran the motor and spark is visible on the plug. If I pull the coil off the plug, it is sparking on the end.

Now with this issue going on it, it isn't all the time! The car is misfiring about 75% of the time. But then it will clear up and drive like she should. It is almost like a sensor is bad. Like it finally realizes how to properly run. Sometimes while driving I can feel it in the gas pedal that all 6 are firing just as they should. Come to a stop, and the car is completely still, can't even tell it is running. Once this clears up, it will run perfect until I turn it off and it sits for a few hours. Then when I get back in, it is stuttering and misfiring again. It is very inconsistent. I noticed while driving, if it does ever clear up and run as it should, it will be after the car has been running for about 25 minutes or so.

Also, another issue it is having now is that its idle will drop down to like 600 rpms while stopped and chug and struggle for a second or 2 and then kick itself back up to where it should be, about 800-900, and maintain a good idle. I have noticed that it will often times do this over and over while at a stop and sometimes, like I said before, it will clear whatever it is and run perfect after a few times of this.

The most recent scanner at a local auto store is throwing codes for:

Lean Bank 2
Cylinder 4 Misfire
Primary circuit D malfunction (Cylinder 4?)
And I believe a Cat code

On a side note, ever since I did the plugs and coils back in October, I have been running nothing but Premium gas.

With tax season upon us, it is time to put some money into her. What she needs and I am planning on replacing is as follows:

VC Gasket
Intake Gasket
Fuel Filter (may have never been done)
Motorcraft plugs/coils (possibly)
Fuel Injectors
New IAC
New MAF sensor

Is there anything else I should look into for this issue? What would you do? I am just stressing because this right here is a pretty penny on this stuff. And if the motor is shot from running low octane, I do not want to waste my money on it to still have a poor running car. But like I said, at times, it will run just as it should!

For anyone who actually read all of this, thank you for your time! I loved this car and just want her to be back to normal. Thank you in advance for any responses.

 

[BigDaddyBabby]

Another little side note, is my battery light will come on randomly at times. Sometimes it will stay on for 5 minutes, other times it will come on for only 15 seconds. Had battery tested, checked out. Just replaced my negative battery cable because the other was messed up, still comes on randomly.

 

[joegr]

Very probably, your running lower octane gasoline has nothing directly to do with your problems.
Frankly, you bought the wrong car. It sounds like you can't afford to maintain it. I promise that there are a few thousand dollars of other items missing from your list. (Alternator, suspension, cooling system, PCV, catalytic converters...)

If you are at the point where you have to buy low octane gas, cheap coils, and hold off on replacing leaking valve cover gaskets, then a 15 year old LS is not the right choice for you.

 

[BigDaddyBabby]

Thank you for your response. I appreciate your honesty and couldn't agree with you more. My finances took quite a hit last year in a custody battle for one of my daughters. Lawyers these days cost an arm and 2 legs. Your list of other items you mentioned are all of on my to do list as well, but there is no point in even looking at the suspension if I can't get the car to even idle right first. I'm also a believer that my alternator is an issue with the battery light. PCV valve is on my list as well since I'll be pulling the intake to do coils again. Thank you for your time.

 

[04_Sport_LS]

Easy Joe...

BDB,

It would have helped to write down the codes and post them here.

-Battery light means charging system problem. Most likely because of low idle... possibly oil got in the alt
-Cat code would mean that the cat is probably trashed on that bank... so you will need a new cat now.
-lean bank 2 and rough idle says vacuum leak to me... possibly the PCV hose, which runs under the intake mainfold
Leaky intake gaskets could be an issue also,,, and causing the cylider misfire.

Certain year Ford 3.0 engines had a valve that was part of the intake system that would leak oil onto the coils,,, but this was a cylinder #1 issue IIRC. Not sure if the LS V6 has the same intake system or not. Never seen a V6 LS engine in person. The 3.0 was known more for oil leaks from the timing cover and oil pan, than the VC gakets. Pull the coil from Cylinder #4,,, and see if there is fresh oil in the plug well, (assuming you cleaned it out the first time). If so... then VC gaskets are needed,,, but you have other more pressing issues now.

I wouldn't keep driving the LS with a cat code. Eventually the cat will melt down/plug up... which will cause more engine damage. Instead of throwing hundreds of dollars at the car trying to fix a problem... that has caused more problems,,, ... take the car to a Ford dealer and pay the $150 for an engine diagnostic/inspection and find out what exactly NEEDS to be replaced. At THIS point it's at least a cat for at least a couple hundred bucks. That's already more that the cost for the diagnostic.

I understand what it is to be tight on cash. It took me 10 years to dig my way out of a separation/divorce. But the one thing I learned way before that is to never cut corners just to try and save a buck,,, because it costs more in the long run. If you had already taken the LS to the dealer for a diagnostic,,, you wouldn't be looking at the cost of a cat now. Once you get the diagnostic... if you are comfortable doing the work yourself... then do it in the order of importance.

I'm not picking on you,,, being mean... or trying to give you a hard time. I'm just trying to get you to take a step back,,, ignore for a moment what this is going to cost you,,, and look at it from the perspective of what is important. Reliable transportation.

Hope you get this worked out.

 

[joegr]

...Certain year Ford 3.0 engines had a valve that was part of the intake system that would leak oil onto the coils,,, ...

That should be a gen II V6 only issue.

The cylinder 4 misfire primary code implies that the wiring is pinched somewhere, the connector to the coil isn't fully seated and latched, or is otherwise damaged.

It's all fixable, but it may bankrupt him in the process. It may be cheaper to sell it and buy something that requires less maintenance until his situation changes.

 

[SoulSoak]

Yeah. A $50k car from the early millennium is going to cost just as much, if not more, as it would back then. The Lincoln LS is a car that should be chosen, not purchased. It's an expensive, well... obsolete, vehicle to be driven by your average individual. It's a luxury that most of us here have been in love with, accustomed to, and can't replace. If that's not you, find another car because it won't be worth what it will cost you.

 

[04_Sport_LS]

Ok... so the oil leak from the intake was a gen II V6 issue only. One less thing the OP has to worry about. I'm starting to get "old timers", and the hard drive between my ears is full... and very fragmented. It's all there,,, just that sometimnes it takes a while to access properly.

I'm sure the OP originally "chose" this car,,, not expecting to go through a divorce afterwards. The car is not woth much right now in it's present condition the way it is running,,, so it's in his best interest to fix it. One thing I learned in my divorce... the attorneys can wait. If the ex is at all understanding,,, she can wait. What can't wait is his kids... so he needs reliable transportation. Blindly throwing money at it,,, hoping to fix the problem(s)... isn't the answer. $150 for a diagnostic is the best place to start right now.

I fell in love with the LS when it first came out,,, so I guess you could say we chose each other. But I was in no position to spend $50k on a new car. I'm still not. But a few years ago, an opportunity presented itself for me to own one,,, so I jumped on it. Other than coils and cooling sytem, (and normal wear parts), it's been a reliable vehicle. I loved it when I first got it,,, but I have learned over the last few years that material possessions are just that... ,,, material possessions. "The pursuit of happiness" is BS!!! Nothing more than a line in The Declaration of Independence. Life is more important than what we own, what others think of us, and who we "think" we are, how big or fast our "whatever" is... or how much money we make. Life is meant to be about relationsips with others!!! Here today,,, and gone tomorrow.

Sorry,,, been an interesting night in other conversations. I'll get off my soapbox now.

 

[1LoudLS]

The car is not worth much right now in it's present condition the way it is running,,, so it's in his best interest to fix it.

not necessarily, depending on what the actual problem is, he may be able to buy something like a cheap older civic for half of what it could cost him in repairs... he might not make a lot of money on the car... but he could spend a fortune repairing it. he doesn't even have to sell it if he doesn't want to and doesn't owe anything on it, set it aside until he has the funds to do what needs to be done. plus another good side of this, if somthing end up breaking on the civic, the repair cost (vs. an LS) would be a fraction of the cost, not to mention the higher likelihood of the LS to breakdown...

$150 for a diagnostic is the best place to start right now.

keep in mind, that some problems are so bad that they might not be able to track them all down or actually find them at all for a diagnostic fee, they may run test on it for hours without figuring it out. or even more likely, he pays $150, they (correctly) tell him this is wrong, he makes said repairs but problem still exist but turns out, that needed to be done BEFORE you could even test everything to find the problem, then has to pay another $150 for them to find "problem B" and so on, and so on...



I'm not saying thats not a good way to go (because if you do want to have this car repaired, thats not a bad place to start), but it could be a start to a long expensive process. what I do know, is repairing an LS can be a dice roll for sure, and it really sounds like what this guy needs right now more than anything is a reliable mode of transportation

 

[Phlox]

First, I have to say that I am no where near as competent as some of the other members here. Secondly, go get those codes read again and post them here. Are you currently experiencing the rod knock, or are you just stating a future concern that was gathered from your research? Also you mentioned at the start of your post that it never threw a CEL, you should know that a marginal coil won't always throw a CEL.

Like others have mentioned, be cautious driving it much longer with failing cats and failing coils...that's an expensive part to replace if you melt or plug one, especially if you live in an emissions state. Misfiring coils can and will indeed destroy your catalytic converter. Junk those knock-off coils and the plugs and start from scratch. Motocraft coils and decent plugs. Make sure to gap the plug correctly. Also, pay certain attention when seating the coils onto the plugs, get a good solid seat. Use dielectric grease. While you're in there tearing her apart, replace those gaskets and clean all the oil out of the plug wells, if you don't replace those gaskets you're going to ruin those high-dollar Motocraft coils and your plugs, again. Those gaskets could be causing a vacuum leak like 04_Sport mentioned. Don't 'pinch' or 'kink' them when replacing, follow the torque sequence.

On the Gen I, the PCV system is 'interior' so to speak, unlike the Gen II's that are much easier to replace....anyway since you'll be in there, replace that too. Like mentioned above, the PCV system is a common place to find a vacuum leak -- especially on a Gen I...something to do with the heat of the engine being a culprit in quicker deterioration (correct me if I'm wrong here.) Some may say "well that's just throwing parts at it" but from what you have posted, it appears to me that all that needs to be replaced and fixed anyway, so if it were me, I would start there.

Clogged cats, junk aftermarket coils (especially if they are being saturated in oil -- if you didn't replace the gaskets the first time, they are going to get soaked again,) faulty PCV system, and un-metered air in the system, causing rich and lean conditions, will all factor into your stuttering and idle problems.

Additionally, from what I've gathered here, if your car is missing 75% of the time...it's not a sensor problem. If you're decent with a wrench and have some sockets laying around, you can do all this work yourself. Just pay attention the the shop manual (Buy one if you don't have one, they're cheap. I got all three volumes brand new, never opened, with crisp spines for $30 dollars on eBay.) and take your time.

Welcome to the forum and good luck with your LS.

 

[gunzip]

Your problems sound like mine...vacuum leak was the root of it all ., wouldn't idle and the pcm dumped enough extra gas into the motor trying to even the mixture out that it was fouling the plugs and eventually stopped up the cat. Check the rubber adapter that comes out of the motor at the back drivers side of the engine and connects the POS hard plastic vacuum tube up to the IAC vavle

 

[SteveSC]

If you end up fixing it, buy the intake manifold tuning o-ring as it is easy to change when you have the intake out. Prone to leak and also can cause an air leak. Buy a PCV valve and elbow as well. Do not remove the canister from the engine (that the PCV connects into) as there is a gasket there and is a pain to get in the right spot. The canister will not come out from between the heads!

 

[BigDaddyBabby]

Thanks for all the replies. As of right now there is no rod knock. Just something I read while researching. What throws me off is how at times it seems to run just as it should. Sometimes it will fire right up and you can't even tell it is running. Smooth. No vibrations or jitters. Nice throttle. Smooth gears. But then I get to my destination, turn it off, and next time it turns on is a gamble if it is going to miss or run correctly. It seems to me like a possible electrical problem. Like wires got crimped or something when I did the coils in October. Looking into this issue I found the PCM on these are known to go bad as well with a faulty ground design or so? But I also read many times how this PCV elbow wears so that seems quite possible. The possibilities just add up. I'd rather roll the dice on this and see what happens then hit the car lots for a new vehicle at the moment.

I am going to get a diagnostics done at Ford and see where that leads me. You guys talked me into it. Ultimately, I do know this car needs a major tune up. So I plan to get Motorcraft coils, PCV valve and hose/elbow, intake gasket, valve cover gaskets, and fuel filter. I also need to get my hands on a shop manual.

 

[ga289stocker]

Sorry to hear all this. That stinks.

 

[BigDaddyBabby]

Just got the car back from the shop. OEM coils and plugs, VC gasket, intake gasket, fuel filter, new upper radiator hose, new cylinder 4 injector, and all is good!

Injector seems to have been culprit. My mechanic believes that the issue was water getting into the injector from me running cheap gas, not only low octane, but getting gas from the wrong places. Lesson learned.

 

[Willow LS]

I'm glad you got it fixed

 

[BigDaddyBabby]

Thank you. She's running smooth as butter now. I love this car all over again. Especially after driving other vehicles the last few weeks.

 

[1LoudLS]

good to hear you got it running well again!


aside from the injector going out (and a usually few extra coolant hoses...) that pretty much equals what should by now be called the standard LS tune up! lol 9 out of 10 times it will get a poorly running LS back up and running pretty good.

 

[04_Sport_LS]

Congratulations on a well running vehicle. Aside from normal wear parts, you should be good for another 50-60k. If you start dropping more injectors,,, you may want to have the fuel system flushed. It's also possible that the fuel filter with 107K on it,,, was so full of crap,,, that some of the debris bypassed the filter. Just something to keep in mind.

Stay away from older gas stations because the underground tanks are made of steel, which obviously will rust. Also... try not to fill up when the truck is refilling the underground tanks, because that will stir up any debris on the bottom of the tank.

In my youth I worked at a car wash/sevice station. We checked the tanks once a week for water, and knew the mid grade tank was bad, so we just told people we were out. When the State division of Weights and Measures came out to check the accuracy of the pumps,,, and they got to the mid grade pump,,, a combination of gasoline, and white and brown sludge came out the nozzle. This had just happened in a years time,,, but the tank wasn't replaced until the owner was forced to do so.

 

[04_Sport_LS]

Another on topic but off topic thought:

The following is just my opinion, based on my experience... so please don't flame me.

Just because a coil is misfiring, doesn't mean the coil itself is bad. 65k ago, my LS started dropping coils. Wanting replacements that were made in the USA, I went to my LPS. They had a brand that was US made, and had a lifetime warranty, (not that that necessarily means anything). I purchased them along with new plugs and did the replacement. When done, I left the coil covers off. The reason being that the worst enemy to a coil is heat,,, and to me all the covers did was trap heat, (and make the engine look prettier).

I know the stories about water getting in around the coils and ruining them, but that can also happen with the covers on. The problem is the hood to cowl seal, and if that leaks it won't matter if the covers are on or off,,, because even with the covers on the water can get into the coil harness and migrate under the covers to the coils.

So far, 65k later, (10k short of the factory coil replacement,,, a couple of which had already been replaced), I have had only one problem. 30-35K ago, I started dropping one cylinder intermittently. Having a spare coil, I replaced it. Looking at the supposedly bad coil, I noticed it had a film on the plug boot. Possibly VCG leakage at that cylinder, or maybe something I sprayed or spilled on the engine at some point. Not believing that the actual coil was bad, I bought a replacement boot and reinstalled the coil, (after cleaning the plug well). So far, another 30-35k later,,, that supposedly bad coil is still working properly, (knock on wood).

My suggestion is... if you have a coil that is acting up,,, instead of replacing the whole coil,,, go to your LPS and buy just the boot and try that first. $6-$8 is a lot cheaper than $40-$60. Granted... there are no spark plug wires,,, but the boot is serving the same function as a spark plug wire. Due to extreme heat and age, the plug boot can break down just like a plug wire,,, and allow cross arcing between the coil electrode and the plug well.

I saved all of my old coils,,, and marked them "bad", (misfiring),,, and "good", (still working when pulled). When in the future I do drop another coil I will try replacing the boot first. If that doesn't work I will the put a new boot on a coil I marked "bad", and see if it functions properly. If it does,,, I will see how long it lasts. Call this a long term coil durability test, (at least for as long as I have the car).

Just my $.02