decibels5
Dedicated LVC Member
:shifty: :shifty:
The Mechanic Screwed Me Now Hes Gonna Pay
- Thread starter union807trucker
- Start date
just my two cents....
If he gets you documentation on the mileage of the motor (and it is below your mileage)... and he provides you with a compression test on the motor (to verify it is within spec)... there is no problem and you've got no case. Perhaps the only thing you could ask for is a loaner car or a rental while he repairs the damage to your car while in his possession.
Sorry, but if he replaces the engine he damaged with one of equal of better quality then restitution has been made and you've got no grounds for a lawsuit. Actually, to bring a lawsuit would be unethical as far as I'm concerned.
Remember, you can usually get a lot further with someone when you treat them the way you want to be treated. Keep that in mind when you talk to him. Also, should it go to court... you want to be the one that looks like a reasonable, respectable adult... not a petty child that can't control his emotions.
As for no oil being the problem... HIGHLY doubt that. As 97caddy said... engines do not throw rods due to no oil... they seize (when I was 19 I built a high performance 2.5L I-4 running 350 chebby hyperneutanic flat-top pistons, polished rods, big cam, high compression, port/polish head with over-sized valves... WELLLLLLL... I forgot to prime the oil system; she ran about 5 minutes on the vaseline I used as assembly lube (btw... works great, it's petroleum based so it dissolves in the oil!) before the bearings overheated, expanded and clamped down on the crank. Thankfully the damage was limited to the bearings). Point here is... rods break due to stress, not low oil. So the chances are someone let the engine rev a bit too much... And that's not to say it was the mechanic... it could be a result of your driving habits and he was just unlucky enough to have the car when the rod decided it had had enough abuse.
Keep the temper down, stay calm and when you go about this, try to do so as though you are a third party who's only job is to ensure the end result is fair. What I'm saying is... don't let your emotions take control.
Good luck on having a fair outcome; hopefully it all goes well!
If he gets you documentation on the mileage of the motor (and it is below your mileage)... and he provides you with a compression test on the motor (to verify it is within spec)... there is no problem and you've got no case. Perhaps the only thing you could ask for is a loaner car or a rental while he repairs the damage to your car while in his possession.
Sorry, but if he replaces the engine he damaged with one of equal of better quality then restitution has been made and you've got no grounds for a lawsuit. Actually, to bring a lawsuit would be unethical as far as I'm concerned.
Remember, you can usually get a lot further with someone when you treat them the way you want to be treated. Keep that in mind when you talk to him. Also, should it go to court... you want to be the one that looks like a reasonable, respectable adult... not a petty child that can't control his emotions.
As for no oil being the problem... HIGHLY doubt that. As 97caddy said... engines do not throw rods due to no oil... they seize (when I was 19 I built a high performance 2.5L I-4 running 350 chebby hyperneutanic flat-top pistons, polished rods, big cam, high compression, port/polish head with over-sized valves... WELLLLLLL... I forgot to prime the oil system; she ran about 5 minutes on the vaseline I used as assembly lube (btw... works great, it's petroleum based so it dissolves in the oil!) before the bearings overheated, expanded and clamped down on the crank. Thankfully the damage was limited to the bearings). Point here is... rods break due to stress, not low oil. So the chances are someone let the engine rev a bit too much... And that's not to say it was the mechanic... it could be a result of your driving habits and he was just unlucky enough to have the car when the rod decided it had had enough abuse.
Keep the temper down, stay calm and when you go about this, try to do so as though you are a third party who's only job is to ensure the end result is fair. What I'm saying is... don't let your emotions take control.
Good luck on having a fair outcome; hopefully it all goes well!
Thats all well and good, Nate. The bit i was having trouble comprehending was the fact that the garage just changed the motor out without telling him - no phone call or anything. That kinda made me suspicious... garages shouldnt just be doing these things without letting the owner know first, should they?
Edit: The garage must have been revving the Boll X off that thing to throw a rod like that! I wonder if uniontrucker had abit of 'rod knock' prior to this mess, masked by the coil misfires... Never heard of no oil being the cause of rod failure either - abuse or detonation more likely causes for that.
Edit: The garage must have been revving the Boll X off that thing to throw a rod like that! I wonder if uniontrucker had abit of 'rod knock' prior to this mess, masked by the coil misfires... Never heard of no oil being the cause of rod failure either - abuse or detonation more likely causes for that.
Absolutely not. You always must get consent to perform any additional work on a customer's car. But, I'm not really clear on when the work was actually performed. At one point it sounds like the mechanic called and informed him of the problem, and a pending solution (meaning not already started on the replacement engine). But then at another point in the thread it sounds like the mechanic did the work without being given the green light. I'm just being the devil's advocate... the fact that the mechanic didn't even attempt to charge him in any way shape or form other than the work the car was brought in for... well, it means one of two things; he was trying to be a decent human and do the right thing. OR, he doesn't have a license to operate a repair facility and doesn't want any trouble. I'd like to think the first statement would be correct and what we're looking at is an unfortunate series of events compounded by a simple misunderstanding. But either way, he's not making any money off this... so that does alleviate some suspicion.
That was kind of what I was getting at... usually at 97k on the odometer, an engine that has not been abused and regularily maintained will be in good shape (at-least good enough shape to not throw rods for no good reason)... leads me to believe someone had been rather hard on the car. Sounds like it could be a problem that was already awaiting in the shadows and just decided to manifest at an unforunate time for the mechanic.
Yup. Sounds good to me. If the garage did tell him prior and have warranted the replacement engine, then there is certainly no need to get the law involved. Kinda all starting to make sense now... (not sure why i agreed to no oil being the culprit - my fingers must have engaged before my brain! Lol.)
Hope it all works out, anyway!
Hope it all works out, anyway!
Trust me. If the replacement engine is legitimate and works/runs fine?
You have no case.
You can always try/file/get a lawyer...but trust me..you have no case if what I just mentioned above is true
You have no case.
You can always try/file/get a lawyer...but trust me..you have no case if what I just mentioned above is true
97stscaddy
Dedicated LVC Member
He told him before he got the "new" engine.
Lol. Union is abit confusing sometimes, but it seems the puzzle has fallen into place.
I agree... not ripping on him at all but it seems like he doesn't assemble his thoughts before putting them to writing sometimes; he just throws them out there as they come and it's up to the reader to put it all together. Makes some of his stuff more interesting I guess!!!
union807trucker
Well-Known LVC Member
lmao u guys kno what it is its that i was so upset,that im thinking faster than i am typing"lol. Anyway i went back today to see whats going on with my car and i still see it parked on the street,so i go in and ask him if he got the vin numbers to the engine that he installed-because he said he was going to get them for me so i can search on car fax,but guess what the engine that he installed on my car
was damaged. He said that who ever had the motor before must have drove the car when overheating so bad that it was already internally dameged by the time he put it in my car. so basically the new motor with 46k supposedly had to be replaced.I was calm u kno i dont want to argue with this guy anymore i just want this nightmare to end-so i tell him whats happens now?he tells me the same junk yard has another motor coming in from new jersy with 70k and paper work to prove it.he also tells me to keep relax that all he wants is time from me and to be patient while everything is done.He then also rminds me that he paid 1100 for the motor and since he paid for the motor he is not going to let the junk yard just take his money either. He also told me that to remember he is working for free and he just doesnt want a bad name and be called an unfair person. Not for nothing im just going to sit back and relax until everything s done ill probaly rent a maxima or something for a week.ill keep u updated on what goes on.
was damaged. He said that who ever had the motor before must have drove the car when overheating so bad that it was already internally dameged by the time he put it in my car. so basically the new motor with 46k supposedly had to be replaced.I was calm u kno i dont want to argue with this guy anymore i just want this nightmare to end-so i tell him whats happens now?he tells me the same junk yard has another motor coming in from new jersy with 70k and paper work to prove it.he also tells me to keep relax that all he wants is time from me and to be patient while everything is done.He then also rminds me that he paid 1100 for the motor and since he paid for the motor he is not going to let the junk yard just take his money either. He also told me that to remember he is working for free and he just doesnt want a bad name and be called an unfair person. Not for nothing im just going to sit back and relax until everything s done ill probaly rent a maxima or something for a week.ill keep u updated on what goes on.
I agree...
Really sounds like some massive amounts of misfortune for this guy. Think about it... he does a repair on your engine... starts it up and goes for a test drive... just about back to the shop and "clank clank clank BAM" (not sure if you've ever had a rod thrown while driving... it goes something like that... happened to my BMW while I was in Germany on my way to see a concentration camp... wonderful right?). So he's like ":q:q:q:q!! Well, I'll see if I can track down a replacement before I call this guy so when I tell him, he can see it's all lined up." He tells you, you flip... now he's not happy because you're irate and he's the one eating the cost of an engine. So he gets it installed and tries to get the paperwork on it from the supplier. Engine is in... starts it up... blown head gasket! Granted, he doesn't have to buy a new engine... but that labor isn't covered...
See where I'm going with this... I'd at least have some sympathy for this guy!
I'd buy this dude lunch once this mess is all taken care of!
pwr2killayak
Well-Known LVC Member
i dont think id buy him lunch. i just think i would never go back to this said shop.
tell him good luck and call it a day.
treat others like you would like to be treated, but this guy was not up front about what happened. if someone blows my motor, i want to know, then you can go about fixing the issue, not blow my motor, try to find a way out of the jam, then tell me 'im getting you a "new" motor.' what a crappy situation. this guy would also be paying for my car rental. if hes not already...
tell him good luck and call it a day.
treat others like you would like to be treated, but this guy was not up front about what happened. if someone blows my motor, i want to know, then you can go about fixing the issue, not blow my motor, try to find a way out of the jam, then tell me 'im getting you a "new" motor.' what a crappy situation. this guy would also be paying for my car rental. if hes not already...
First... MOTORS turn electrical energy into mechanical energy. Engines produce mechanical energy through the release of thermal energy from fuel... Unless we're talking boats... where the "motor" is the entire unit to include the "power-head" (read:engine) and drive assembly. But I'm pretty sure we're talking non-marine lingo here. Everyone is saying motor so much that I'm having to watch myself to make sure I don't do the same!
By union's own admission, no work was performed on his vehicle prior to being informed. He'd just lined up a replacement engine. This is what a decent shop would do. Are you saying the guy should have called him up and been like... "your engine just threw a rod... I'll call you back when I figure out how I can go about fixing this problem"? No, only an idiot would do that. It makes you look unprofessional and unprepared. When you call someone with a problem, you have a solution ready... unless there is no viable solution. That's just called good business.
Second part... the chances are the engine throwing a rod is no fault of the mechanic. The thing had 97,000 miles on it... of which, union has no idea how the vehicle was driven or treated. For that matter, I don't know how union drives the car. Would I say he has a reason to be suspicious if he'd owned the car since it came off the lot, babied it, never hit WOT and had under 50k miles? Absolutely. But there are far, far too many variables at play here to make a moronic assumption that the engine throwing a rod is the result of the shop and not the life the car has had.
I would go as far as to say, given the situation (higher miles, unknown history)... IF the mechanic wanted to make life difficult, could very well make an offer to split the replacement engine. And depending on state laws, this might be well within his right due to the fact that the part failure was in no way a result of his work. Rods do not break as a result of improper installation of VCG's... they break due to either a sudden, extreme stress situation (think cruising at 70mph and throwing your manual car into 1st gear; the resulting sudden over-speed situation is extreme stress), or prolonged, elevated levels of stress (drag racing, constant high RPM operation). The second situation you could have a failure at any time (even at idle) just because the metal has been stressed so much and has fissures in it; there is no way to predict when it will finally give out.
I'm not saying it is, or is not the fault of the mechanic; with the situation at hand, that judgement can't really be made. Ever hear of giving someone the benefit of the doubt (especially when they are making all necessary steps to rectify the problem)? Try to wrap your mind around the physics, mechanics and common sense of the issue... Union figured it out... and it's HIS car!
Well, we have pretty much established the facts here, so might as well debate this for a minute.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&defl=en&q=define:motor&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title
Plus, you have Ford Motor Company, Honda Motor Company, Motor cars, Motor cycles, Motor homes etc. I think motor has become a generally accepted term. Also, a motor powered by electricity is usually called an electric motor, to distinguish it from its other motor brethren.
I can see you've figured out I like some healthy debating... one problem... Wikipedia is not a viable place to quote; it's a user driven resource. I could go in there right now and modify it to say that a motor is the device used in a vibrator... it's only use is to give women carnal pleasure. And that is exactly what it would read.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary
I will give you this much... it would appear that even Webster's says motor is an appropriate term when talking about an IC engine.
BUT... when is the last time you heard a professional in the automotive industry (other than salesmen... I'm talking engineers, knowledgeable mechanics... the like) refer to it as a motor?
You need to have your motor rebuilt
We'll send it off to the motor builder
Your motor is down at the motor shop
See what I'm getting at... Yes, a motor is a device which imparts motion... But the correct terminology would be ENGINE... Professionals do not call them motors, they call them by their more specific name of Engine... Which is in reference to the Internal Combustion Engine.
It's like saying "You need your electrical conductors replaced"... well... that would be spark plugs. Yes, they conduct electricity across a gap... but that doesn't describe what it IS.
Calling an engine a motor is the same thing... you're addressing it by what it does, not what it is.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/internal+combustion+engine
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/motor
I know that wikipedia isnt the most accurate source - but accurate enough for what i wanted to convey in this case. (I checked several sources first and just put up the wiki one for easy reading)
I understand what you are saying, i agree! Just illustrating how the term has been generalized, and generally accepted.
I mean, where would we draw the line with the hair splitting? Sure, we could call it a motor, or more accurately an engine, or even more accurately a spark ignition, otto cycle, internal combustion engine.
Now, if we were in an engineering environment, then yes, i would expect the proper terminology to be used, but on a car forum? No need, imo. Abit of 'slang' doesnt hurt - as long as we can all understand each other its all cool.
I know that wikipedia isnt the most accurate source - but accurate enough for what i wanted to convey in this case. (I checked several sources first and just put up the wiki one for easy reading)
I understand what you are saying, i agree! Just illustrating how the term has been generalized, and generally accepted.
I mean, where would we draw the line with the hair splitting? Sure, we could call it a motor, or more accurately an engine, or even more accurately a spark ignition, otto cycle, internal combustion engine.
Now, if we were in an engineering environment, then yes, i would expect the proper terminology to be used, but on a car forum? No need, imo. Abit of 'slang' doesnt hurt - as long as we can all understand each other its all cool.
union807trucker
Well-Known LVC Member
Whats Going On Guys?
Well Its A Waiting Game Now Until He Installs And Has It Running Good Again. For The Record I Bought It With 85k Ran Beutifully Till I Hit 97k And This Shop. When My Car Comes Out I Am Simply Going To Thank Him For The Engine And Never Ever Go Back To This Shop Again.
Ill Keep U Guys Posted Of Anything That Comes Up... Everyone Thanks So Much Without The Help And Opinions Of U And Family I Think I Would Have Gone Nuts. Anyways Im Off To Look For A Rental Probaly A Mustang Or Maxima.....im Paying For The Rental By The Way....
Well Its A Waiting Game Now Until He Installs And Has It Running Good Again. For The Record I Bought It With 85k Ran Beutifully Till I Hit 97k And This Shop. When My Car Comes Out I Am Simply Going To Thank Him For The Engine And Never Ever Go Back To This Shop Again.
Ill Keep U Guys Posted Of Anything That Comes Up... Everyone Thanks So Much Without The Help And Opinions Of U And Family I Think I Would Have Gone Nuts. Anyways Im Off To Look For A Rental Probaly A Mustang Or Maxima.....im Paying For The Rental By The Way....
pwr2killayak
Well-Known LVC Member
did yal really just have like an 8 post conversation about the term usage, motor or engine?
just checking.
just checking.
xarruda89x
Dedicated LVC Member
Despite of all of his wrong actions, he is putting hours of work into your car, he's showing you some respect, doing all he can do make a customer happy, that he knows he is losing in the future. Like a member said .. I would buy him a little lunch or coffee to say, hey, you messed up, its ok, but thanks for all your hard work, let me buy you something in my behalf of your hard work.
Mistakes happen all the time.
By the way, IMO, everyone should go to the Dealership, i don't trust any mechanic's. Let me tell you a story of normal mechanic's ..
My dad owns a 05 Ford f150, leather, moonroof, C/H seats, fully loaded, thousands of dollars .. He went for an oil change not by dealership, his buddy owns a shop, he has a good name, got his oil changed there, soon after that oil change the motor would do some strange noises, having problems starting and making a lot of noise, my dad goes wtf, goes to the dealership, they said they found pieces of paper in the motor and tubes, and they used the wrong oil and what ever else they do, a 40-45k truck was almost put to rest. Since then, my dad will NEVER go to a normal mechanic, always dealership !!
Mistakes happen all the time.
By the way, IMO, everyone should go to the Dealership, i don't trust any mechanic's. Let me tell you a story of normal mechanic's ..
My dad owns a 05 Ford f150, leather, moonroof, C/H seats, fully loaded, thousands of dollars .. He went for an oil change not by dealership, his buddy owns a shop, he has a good name, got his oil changed there, soon after that oil change the motor would do some strange noises, having problems starting and making a lot of noise, my dad goes wtf, goes to the dealership, they said they found pieces of paper in the motor and tubes, and they used the wrong oil and what ever else they do, a 40-45k truck was almost put to rest. Since then, my dad will NEVER go to a normal mechanic, always dealership !!
union807trucker
Well-Known LVC Member
what up giving everyone an update on the car,well got it back today and shes running real smooth almost brand new i will never go back to them again but im glad i woke up from this nightmare
HyeLifeLS
Dedicated LVC Member
Good to hear that everything is cool man.
union807trucker
Well-Known LVC Member
thanks man to you and everyone that had an imput on this subject