TIME-SENSITIVE ISSUE: 2004 LS is Stalling/Burnt Smell/Left Me Stranded!

Ladybird04LS

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Greetings :)

My husband and I are new owners of a 2004 LS V6 that we bought from my sister last week. She and my brother-in-law have been the only owners of the vehicle. At the time of purchase, there was a diagnostic run and a coil replaced. The car is in excellent cosmetic condition, but had not been driven for quite some time.

It ran very well for the first few days, but afterward, we experienced the following...

The first thing that happened a few days before the car completely stalled and would not start was when I made a right-hand turn off a small highway. I did not come to an almost complete stop to turn right because there was someone on my tail, so I slowed enough to take the turn safely, and when I did, there was a VERY loud "bang" "bang" as if the car back-fired twice. When I accelerated, the car did not want to go, and was really "sluggish". I took my foot off of the gas and let it roll, then accelerated and proceeded slowly. It was fine after that, and seemed to have no problems whatsoever.

The next time I drove the car, I had to use the lights and windshield wipers because it was raining pretty hard. On the day that it stalled completely and would not start, this is what happened...

It was working fine up until I had to stop behind backed-up traffic that had been detoured due to an accident. When traffic began moving, I went to accelerate, and the car completely stalled. I tried starting it, and the dashboard control lights were on, the A/C was still blowing, and I heard the engine try to turn over, but it would not start. I tried this several times until it went completely "dead"...no lights, no engine trying to turn over. I sat there for a few minutes and waved people around me. When I tried the ignition again, the car started, so I decided to just pull it over onto the side of the road to get out of the traffic. When I maneuvered it to the side, it stalled again, and did the exact same thing as before. At that point, I tried a couple of more times, and then just let it sit for about 30 minutes until the traffic congestion cleared out.

When there was no longer any heavy traffic, I tried cranking it again, and the car started. I was able to drive it all the way home without any issues, even slowing to take curves, but when I turned into my driveway, after slowing down then accelerating, it stalled in the middle of the driveway. I let it sit for a few minutes, started it up again, and parked it.

There has been a "burnt" smell coming from the A/C vents ever since we brought the car home. It does not happen all of the time. It seems to be noticeable "after" the car either becomes "sluggish" or "stalls". It did do it once when I was just sitting there with the engine and A/C running for about 15 minutes or more while looking at the owner's manual. I do not know if the smell is "oily" or "electric". It seems to be more "oily", but I cannot verify that.

My husband took it for a drive today with me following in our other car, and it did the exact same thing to him. He said he smelled the "burnt" smell right, and then the car stalled out about five minutes later when he stopped at a "stop" sign in our neighborhood. He was able to let it sit for a few minutes then restart, but after we circled the neighborhood again, it completely died on the same road as before, and I had to tow him home.

The "check engine" light does not come on, which is rather confusing to any mechanics we have spoken with. Various suggestions have been made to the cause of the problem, but nothing definitive without some kind of "code" to identify the origin of the issue.

I typed "stalling" into the "search" section of this forum and read what was posted, but did not find any answers to our problem...unless I have completely missed the appropriate "thread".

My sister is waiting on an answer from us as to the exact cause and how much it is going to cost to fix the problem. We have the opportunity of giving the car back to them if the repairs are very expensive, but it is such a nice vehicle, and I would like to see if we can trouble-shoot this issue on our own...as my husband may be able to do the work himself. He is just afraid that the car is going to be a money pit.

Has anyone on this forum been able to solidly identify the cause of this "burnt smell/stalling" combination, and if so, what is the solution?

We thank you all so very much for your time and consideration and look forward to hearing from you!
 
2nd GEN v6 burning oil smell and stalling out is most likely the Intake Manifold Tuning Valves (IMTV) O-ring gaskets.
It's near the very back of the intake at the firewall, it leaks oil into the intake and also down the manifold, hits a hot engine and thus the burning oil smell, performance is hindered due to the valve seals (round gaskets) allowing oil blow by into the intake. It'll require removal of the intake to get to it. The IMT valve o-rings need to be replaced. (qty x2). When done, gently power wash the back side of the motor or allow it to burn of over time.

Also note that the throttle body will be need to clean out as it's most likely covered in old oily combustion. I'd also replace the PCV valve and plastic elbow while at it.

You mentioned it was looked at prior to possession and they noted it needed one coil replaced. Trouble with these LS motors is that once one coil over plug (COP) starts failing others will follow, some are marginal failures, if you run too long on a misfiring LS motor you risk the change of burning out your expensive Catalytic converters. It should be easily observed under hard pulls at wide open throttle (WOT). Misfiring that is. (won't throw a code 90% of the time but can during a drive cycle which clears itself during same drive cycle.) It should idle and run like crap if it's misfiring.

Although by reading the above very detailed information you provided I do not believe it is the primary cause of your burning smell/stalling out issues. It is however important that you get someone to pull all the coils and plugs out and inspect the plug wells for oil/water. If so, you're looking at removal of both sides valve covers and replacing it's gaskets along with the plug well ring gaskets.

You may have a combination of the two problems but you would not be smelling burn oil and stalling out simply from marginal coils in my opinion.

I think your primary cause is the two O ring gaskets in the IMT valves casing oil blow by. It'll provide the burned smell you speak of and the stalling out as oil gets into the intake mixture for combustion.


... it's a bit of a repair but not going to break the bank, tell your sister to pony up at least a grand if you take it to the dealer for repair. If your husband is handy and can figure it out, it's the cost of the O-ring gaskets.



GLWR

PS: I might be wrong, happens now and then.
 
It should idle and run like crap if it's misfiring.

Note that with a marginal coil and intermittent misfire with no CEL, there may be just one engine speed it runs like crap. Some have it at idle but nowhere else. Low, high rpm, wherever. Mine showed issues around 4000RPM but nowhere else
 
Hello! Big Rig:)

THANK YOU so very much for taking the time to help us trouble-shoot this issue. My husband has the day off and is going to take a look. Hopefully, with all of the possible causes you mentioned, he will be able to identify the problem.

Let me ask you this, if I may...if we replace everything mentioned and the LS runs smooth, what length of time might we anticipate that the car will run well on the new "rings" and "coils"? My sister said that she will take the car back, but I really would like to keep it if I can convince my husband that it is not going to be a "money pit".

I noticed your "Big Rig" username. Are you a truck driver by chance? My daughter left the medical field and decided, out of the blue, to be a semi-driver. She drives for the Werner company on the Budweiser account in Jacksonville. She's such a "take charge" kind of woman, LOL ;)

Once again, thank you very much for your time. Hope you have a wonderful day!!! :cool:
 
Hello! Big Rig:)

THANK YOU so very much for taking the time to help us trouble-shoot this issue. My husband has the day off and is going to take a look. Hopefully, with all of the possible causes you mentioned, he will be able to identify the problem.

Let me ask you this, if I may...if we replace everything mentioned and the LS runs smooth, what length of time might we anticipate that the car will run well on the new "rings" and "coils"? My sister said that she will take the car back, but I really would like to keep it if I can convince my husband that it is not going to be a "money pit".

I noticed your "Big Rig" username. Are you a truck driver by chance? My daughter left the medical field and decided, out of the blue, to be a semi-driver. She drives for the Werner company on the Budweiser account in Jacksonville. She's such a "take charge" kind of woman, LOL ;)

Once again, thank you very much for your time. Hope you have a wonderful day!!! :cool:


So I'll give the bad news.
You have bought an unreliable car.
--------------------------------------------------------
http://tradeinqualityindex.com/vehicles/Lincoln_LS.html
--------------------------------------------------------
If you are looking for something reliable, get a used Honda.
These cars are very good at not working.
When they DO actually perform, its a great feeling.
But you have found that money pit.

Very common issues:
-Valve cover gaskets + coils + plugs
Can be done by a decent DIY handyman. Parts will cost you ~$150

-Cooling system replacement (all plastic parts)
Can be done by a decent DIY handyman.
Parts will cost you ~$400

-IMT rings, cheap and can be done by a decent DIY man

-Transmission issue (harsh shift)
Should be done by a good transmission shop
Don't know the cost, but its $1000s

-ECU issue (harsh shift, fix is like $500) Dealer only fix. ECU is on ebay.
 
I would pull the up stream 02 sensors out and see if it runs with out stalling, Mine did that and the catalytic converters were bad. Its free to try and worth a shot.
 
Hello,

Thank you very much for the advice/reply. We're working on it today. I will post a detailed summation of our findings, and hopefully, the resulting "solution/s" to the issue/s.

I do know that my brother-in-law had both catalytic converters replaced less than a year ago, so that area may already be covered.

Have a great day!
 
It's not a money pit per say but it will have it's issues, it's a 10+yr car after all.

We tend to help one another on this forum and thus avoid having to fork over good money at repair shops.
A lot of items can be resolved with some basic tools and know-how.

As mentioned above there are some problems with the aging plastic cooling system but again this is something someone can take care of themselves.

Sure transmission can become a problem, show me an old car that doesn't. People pick these Lincoln LS'es up for next to nothing, then with their heavy foot they beat on it for a few months then complain about the fact that they need transmission work.

It's up to you, I wouldn't say money pit but I wouldn't try and convince you that it's going to run forever without needing some $$$ now and then.

So much is covered on this forum on here, you can always end up with the information you need when needed. Very helpful and knowledgeable folks always willing to help.



Yes I drive semi for a living, mostly Eastern along down to the Carolinas and GA also west of Canada.
Thumbs up to your girl driving truck!
 
Note that with a marginal coil and intermittent misfire with no CEL, there may be just one engine speed it runs like crap. Some have it at idle but nowhere else. Low, high rpm, wherever. Mine showed issues around 4000RPM but nowhere else

Yup yup correct, I guess I could have elaborated on it further.
 
It's not a money pit per say but it will have it's issues, it's a 10+yr car after all.

We tend to help one another on this forum and thus avoid having to fork over good money at repair shops.
A lot of items can be resolved with some basic tools and know-how.

As mentioned above there are some problems with the aging plastic cooling system but again this is something someone can take care of themselves.

Sure transmission can become a problem, show me an old car that doesn't. People pick these Lincoln LS'es up for next to nothing, then with their heavy foot they beat on it for a few months then complain about the fact that they need transmission work.

It's up to you, I wouldn't say money pit but I wouldn't try and convince you that it's going to run forever without needing some $$$ now and then.

So much is covered on this forum on here, you can always end up with the information you need when needed. Very helpful and knowledgeable folks always willing to help.



Yes I drive semi for a living, mostly Eastern along down to the Carolinas and GA also west of Canada.
Thumbs up to your girl driving truck!


I really, really don't like being a jerky forum guy, but Toyota sedans and Lexus sedans totally blow the LS out of the water in terms of not blowing up on you a month after buying it. And they are totally made in America if that's how you like to spend your $$. The numbers don't lie.
———
http://tradeinqualityindex.com/vehicles/Toyota_Avalon.html

http://tradeinqualityindex.com/vehicles/Lexus_LS.html

https://www.yahoo.com/autos/bp/car-dealer-scientific-guide-10-best-used-vehicles-181842236.html
 
I really, really don't like being a jerky forum guy, but Toyota sedans and Lexus sedans totally blow the LS out of the water in terms of not blowing up on you a month after buying it. And they are totally made in America if that's how you like to spend your $$. The numbers don't lie.
———
http://tradeinqualityindex.com/vehicles/Toyota_Avalon.html

http://tradeinqualityindex.com/vehicles/Lexus_LS.html

https://www.yahoo.com/autos/bp/car-dealer-scientific-guide-10-best-used-vehicles-181842236.html

As most of the owners here are the third or later owners of their LSes they have absolutely no idea how the car was treated. You also can't compare a car that's TOTAL production number (less than 300K cars) was less than most of these other cars yearly production. Also, the LS is basically a Jaguar where Lexus IS a Toyota. The Avalon is just a Camry; as is the ES3XX.
 
Every bit of this has to do with electrical, and the LS is known for doing stupid stuff when the battery is bad, and you did say the car sat for a while. I'd start with a new VENTED battery. The dealer will have the correct battery and are surprisingly competitively priced for batteries.
 
Note that with a marginal coil and intermittent misfire with no CEL, there may be just one engine speed it runs like crap. Some have it at idle but nowhere else. Low, high rpm, wherever. Mine showed issues around 4000RPM but nowhere else

Thank you for the information.
 
So I'll give the bad news.
You have bought an unreliable car.
--------------------------------------------------------
http://tradeinqualityindex.com/vehicles/Lincoln_LS.html
--------------------------------------------------------
If you are looking for something reliable, get a used Honda.
These cars are very good at not working.
When they DO actually perform, its a great feeling.
But you have found that money pit.

Very common issues:
-Valve cover gaskets + coils + plugs
Can be done by a decent DIY handyman. Parts will cost you ~$150

-Cooling system replacement (all plastic parts)
Can be done by a decent DIY handyman.
Parts will cost you ~$400

-IMT rings, cheap and can be done by a decent DIY man

-Transmission issue (harsh shift)
Should be done by a good transmission shop
Don't know the cost, but its $1000s

-ECU issue (harsh shift, fix is like $500) Dealer only fix. ECU is on ebay.

Thank you for taking the time to post this information.
 
It's not a money pit per say but it will have it's issues, it's a 10+yr car after all.

We tend to help one another on this forum and thus avoid having to fork over good money at repair shops.
A lot of items can be resolved with some basic tools and know-how.

As mentioned above there are some problems with the aging plastic cooling system but again this is something someone can take care of themselves.

Sure transmission can become a problem, show me an old car that doesn't. People pick these Lincoln LS'es up for next to nothing, then with their heavy foot they beat on it for a few months then complain about the fact that they need transmission work.

It's up to you, I wouldn't say money pit but I wouldn't try and convince you that it's going to run forever without needing some $$$ now and then.

So much is covered on this forum on here, you can always end up with the information you need when needed. Very helpful and knowledgeable folks always willing to help.



Yes I drive semi for a living, mostly Eastern along down to the Carolinas and GA also west of Canada.
Thumbs up to your girl driving truck!

My husband drives the older model Ford F-350 Dually that has that great engine in it before the "improvements" to the design made the newer duallys more unreliable. I also have an older model Toyota Camry that has needed a few repairs over the past 10 years, but for a 23-year-old vehicle, it runs like the energizer bunny. So, yes, as "used vehicle" owners, we definitely understand that things break down at times and need to be fixed.

Fortunately, I have a husband that is a "jack-of-all-trades" and even built our home. He can trouble-shoot just about anything with a guiding hand in the right direction, so we are blessed in that area.

With my brother's computer diagnostic software, we were able to identify that the EGR valve is not working properly, and it was very obvious after investigation that the IMTV O-rings needed to be replaced...so that is where we have begun and are taking it "one part at a time".

Those parts will be replaced in the next few days, and I will post the progress afterward so that it might help someone else in the future.

I am so glad that I found this forum!!! With my husband's handy-man skills, my brother's computer diagnostics program, and all of you who take time out of your day to help others with their "Lincoln issues", we might just be enjoying our LS for years to come :cool:

Thanks for the input! Be safe on those roads!!!
 
As most of the owners here are the third or later owners of their LSes they have absolutely no idea how the car was treated. You also can't compare a car that's TOTAL production number (less than 300K cars) was less than most of these other cars yearly production. Also, the LS is basically a Jaguar where Lexus IS a Toyota. The Avalon is just a Camry; as is the ES3XX.

LS4me, I love your "cover photo"!

My husband and I actually looked at older-model Jaguars last year. I was partial towards the "S" series. If my husband can get a full handle on the mechanics of this engine in the LS, I might just be looking around for a "gently used" Jaguar for myself, LOL.

The 2004 LS we have now was a "one-owner" vehicle I purchased from my sister and brother-in-law, and they kept up with every service appointment that was in the book. Both catalytic converters were replaced less than a year ago, with other repairs done over the 10 years they had it. The exterior and interior are in excellent condition, and it has never been "smoked" in, so with the right care, I believe we can make it into a really good used luxury vehicle for us.

Thanks for the encouragement! Hope you have a wonderfully blessed day!
 
Every bit of this has to do with electrical, and the LS is known for doing stupid stuff when the battery is bad, and you did say the car sat for a while. I'd start with a new VENTED battery. The dealer will have the correct battery and are surprisingly competitively priced for batteries.

Thank you "Telco" for your input.

As I mentioned to "Big Rig", we found, through computer diagnostics, that the EGR valve was bad and the IMTV O-rings are leaking. The parts will be replaced in the next few days, and I will post the results after we have a chance to drive it a bit.

The mention of the "battery" is a really good thought as well. I will tell my husband. Just going ahead and replacing the battery at this juncture would probably be a good idea to thwart off any possible, future "electrical" issues while on long trips.

Thanks for the advice!
 
That's great you and your other half are getting it resolved.
sorry, I'd reply further but on this little tablet with this Georgian heat ... it'll have to wait till I get back home.

Keep us posted on the repairs,
have a great day.
 
Bird, I wanted to add this link to your husbands arsenal.

http://deneau.info/ls/

It's the dealer workshop repair manual for your 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] gen LS, the manual is listed as 06 but is good for your 04 as well, 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] GEN model years are 2003 to 2006.
 
... the manual is listed as 06 but is good for your 04 as well, 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] GEN model years are 2003 to 2006.

Unfortunately, it does not cover the V6 at all (no V6s in 2006).
 
That's the second time now, I've forgotten this.
 
That's the second time now, I've forgotten this.

That southern heat getting to the Nadian ?? :)

get home to some cold Kieth's and all will be fine :)

PS: drop a 24 pack off on your next trip down the east coast,,tnx.
 
I'm a minority around here since I bought my '02 LS Sport new. I had a battery issue several years ago and had to get a jump to get home. I had a cut tire once. My car hasn't been back to the dealer since I got my last free oil change at 40K miles and I now have 155K. My car has been dead reliable and it's been thrashed to the extent of ECTA competition several years ago. I still hold one of the four national records I set at that time. Nay-sayers should suck an egg.;););)

KS
 
That southern heat getting to the Nadian ?? :)

get home to some cold Kieth's and all will be fine :)

PS: drop a 24 pack off on your next trip down the east coast,,tnx.

Heh heh, he thinks it's hot now he's gonna DIE when he does an August run and it's hotter at 2AM than it is now at 2PM. I loved the year I lived at Augusta GA, all you really needed was a fan in the window to sleep like a baby.
 

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