Trying to figure out this "12" speaker system for future upgrades.

[BrianDye]

I have read thread after thread about my "12" speaker system. One of the first upgrades once I get my LS road ready, is a stereo overhaul. Can't be rolling around with just FM. (CD changer doesn't work, and I don't own any CDs)

So I've come to the conclusion, I have 8 speakers, but the doors are each counted as "2" because of a standalone tweeter in the actual speaker housing.

5x7's in each door, 2.5" in the center console, and then the "subs" are 6x9's.

Has anyone upgraded the whole thing, As in new speakers in each door, maybe components even, tweeters in the console or even a small midrange and then a nice pair of full range 6x9's in the rear deck? Most of the threads I've read are just door speaker upgrades and a lot of talk about once you go aftermarket, you lose the center console speakers and the subs.

I'm planning on a Pioneer NEX series double din, and then probably some Pioneer components all around. Not really interested in amplifying them right now, but I'm gonna have to if I plan on running speakers in all the stock locations.

 

[n8bachelor]

Here is my full system upgrade: http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/forum/showthread.php?98672-2006-LS-stereo-install-pics&highlight=

Replaced the head unit, amps, speakers, wires, everything... My car did not have the center console speakers but I installed the component tweeters in the dash to bring up the sound stage instead of having that by my knees.

If you are upgrading the speakers and head unit, you should put an amp on it too.

 

[RigsLS]

Unless you like a good stereo in your driveway, you might want to spend your money elsewhere.

Entire cooling system including degas bottle, coils plugs, cats, AC compressor,
suspension, control arms, bushings, steering linkages, window regulators,
clock spring, OEM vented battery. Tires, wheels, alignments.

Your in for a few grand on that 400$ 03 LS, trust me! Not trying to be negative, just how it is. Ask anyone on here.

Keep wallet open and don't put your tools away just yet. :shifty:

 

[BrianDye]

Here is my full system upgrade: http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/forum/showthread.php?98672-2006-LS-stereo-install-pics&highlight=

Replaced the head unit, amps, speakers, wires, everything... My car did not have the center console speakers but I installed the component tweeters in the dash to bring up the sound stage instead of having that by my knees.

If you are upgrading the speakers and head unit, you should put an amp on it too.

Thats crazy, I JUST finished reading your post on Reddit (I think Reddit?) and looking through all your pictures. Super clean install, and I like what you did with the tweeters. My Edge had them in the A-pillars, and the sound just filled the interior night and day difference with and without them. Im gonna probably run components in each door, and in the front put the tweeter somewhere up higher like where the mirror is, or in the pillar. Back doors will just be somewhere above where the door handle/trim is.

Ill most likely run an amp, don't want to, but ill suck it up and run one. I am really interested in your sub setup though. Ive never heard of that infinite baffle set up, I really like the idea of having clean loud bass, without having half my trunk taken up with a box. Im gonna look into a couple of subs like you have.

Unless you like a good stereo in your driveway, you might want to spend your money elsewhere.

-Entire cooling system including degas bottle,
(Will keep an eye out here)

-coils plugs, cats
(Already doing these lol)

-AC compressor
(Ill run without AC if that ever dies. AC currently blows ICE cold. We don't have long hot summers, just a few days here and there where I would just drive my Explorer if it was that hot!)

-suspension, control arms, bushings, steering linkages
(Already plan on doing suspension work, would like to lower it a bit, and all new ball joints, tie rod/ends, bushings, etc. For now, all that stuff seems to be solid. Will slowly replace it all in the near future)

-window regulators,
(already need one lol)

clock spring
(Knock on wood, mine seems to be okay, the flashing airbag light only happened with the not-fully charged battery)

-OEM vented battery
(Ill have to respectfully disagree on this one, seen numerous LS'es running aftermarket/Optima/sealed AGM etc batts without issues. If I am proven wrong, I get deep discounts on most batteries, so I could pick up an OEM style for under probably $50. Just curious though, why do you say it HAS to be OEM vented? I believe you commented on my registry saying the same thing, that I have to ditch the battery I have because it isn't vented)

-Tires, wheels, alignments.
(Normal upkeep stuff IMO. The tires on the stock wheels seem pretty new. I don't have a tread depth gauge, but I would guess 80% or better tread, no cracking or anything that I can see)

-Your in for a few grand on that 400$ 03 LS, trust me! Not trying to be negative, just how it is. Ask anyone on here.
(Im not doubting that, I know these things keep the wallet light. Everyone in my family that has had one has gotten rid of it fairly quickly, but i'm a sucker for these things. I have to have a good modern stereo in any vehicle. First thing I do once I get it road ready. Might wait on the speakers and drive it for a bit to be safe, but its definitely getting a head unit ASAP)

-Keep wallet open and don't put your tools away just yet. :shifty:
(Im terribly unorganized in the garage, so I won't be putting my tools away lol; but luckily its a second vehicle, so if I do have catastrophic issues, it can stay parked for awhile)

 

[BrianDye]

Back to the radio topic though, if I throw in a headunit for now, will I lose the center console speakers? The harness linked below from Crutchfield has RCA's which look similar to the harness I used in my 09 Edge with the factory sub to retain it.

It looks like I don't need an antenna adapter, when the radio was out, the antenna looked like the normal style, nothing fancy that needs an adapter, right?

Harness:
Metra 70-5701 (Retains factory amp, and power antenna)
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_120705701/Metra-70-5701-Receiver-Wiring-Harness.html

Retain Wheel Controls:
Axxess ASWC-1
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_120ASWC1/Axxess-ASWC-1-Steering-Wheel-Control-Adapter.html

PO left the double din dash plate in the car, does the factory radio/eatc cage bolt to this, or are there parts that im missing?

If that doesnt make sense, all I have for an aftermarket radio is the big silver trim ring that would cover the open space from the aftermarket radio.

Just this piece in this walmart picture:

 

[1LoudLS]

Back to the radio topic though, if I throw in a headunit for now, will I lose the center console speakers?

do you have to lose them? no, do you want to use them? yes. those speakers (the left AND the right) are on one channel, and are there for the OEM radios's Digital Sound Processor to give certain effects like a concert hall. since your radio wont have a 5.1 output, using these speakers will ruin the sound stage since it will either play the left or the right and one of the front seat positions will have either two left speakers or two right speakers, one for each side... then the one that has the correct stereo sound will have time delay issues. so unless you have a DSP that can properly take care of that channel, you should leave it unhooked. plus instead of wasting money on speakers for that location, spend what you would have added to what your gonna spend on the front set and just get better speakers.

The harness linked below from Crutchfield has RCA's which look similar to the harness I used in my 09 Edge with the factory sub to retain it.

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_120705701/Metra-70-5701-Receiver-Wiring-Harness.html

as long as that is what you harness looks like then that is correct, 03s switched which harness they use mid year.

It looks like I don't need an antenna adapter, when the radio was out, the antenna looked like the normal style, nothing fancy that needs an adapter, right?

no antenna adapter

Retain Wheel Controls:
Axxess ASWC-1
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_120ASWC1/Axxess-ASWC-1-Steering-Wheel-Control-Adapter.html

honestly. I would rather have the Maestro SW module for retaining steering wheel controls, you set everything up on a computer before you install it, the programming is much easier and the best part is that you can double up the buttons, and have the normal job be a quick press and a second control if you hold the button for a second. this is extremely useful for phone controls like pick up, hang up/reject, and voice control. plus the directions are much clearer and easier to follow as it prints out the complete procedure with a diagram for the specific car (the install itself is exactly the same)

and no reason this cant be done is simple steps part at a time. but go in knowing what you want to do from the start.

personally if ti was me, I would do a NEX unit first, then a 5ch amp running all of the factory speakers (minus the center channels), and then replace all of the speakers. 6.5" components up front (simple adapter plates) with the tweeter in the exact same position as n8bachelor's (and my own). putting full range speakers in the rear deck is not a good idea without a lot of other work to set it up right. for myself, I would just remove them completely and have a standard sub in box, but if you really wanted to save all the room and didn't need a ton of bass or very deep bass, then you could replace them with either 6x9 subs or fab up some adapters like a couple of other have done and put some 8"s in there. either way, that 5ch amp will handle it nicely.

also unless you are looking at Pioneer TS-Ds or better, I would stay away from pioneer. also not a fan at all with running components in the back, if the tweeters are up high, it is too distracting sounding coming from behind you. when I first was running Type Rs i had the rear tweeters surface mounted in the middle of the door and that one tweeter was all you could hear because of how close it was to the drivers left ear, then ended up getting changed out with coaxial versions of the same line (had that specific pair of component speakers been able to be coaxial mounted, they would have been fine)


also I get asked why do a amp before the speakers... well the factory speakers are not too bad, and with some good clean and plentiful power, they will sound pretty darn good.

 

[BrianDye]

By the way, if I end up keeping this thing long-term, she will be getting the same treatment my Explorer got.

iPad Mini 2 in the dash, with a spring loaded slider kit

Head unit relocated to the glovebox, running a Pac IR extender so I can control everything with a remote as if the head unit was right there in the dash

I use hotspot on my phone to give internet to the iPad to stream music that I havent downloaded (Spotify), Netflix, YouTube, Pandora, etc.

I have an ELM27 wireless OBD2 module plugged in, and use the DashCommand app on the iPad to see all my vehicle data.

This was a stock gauge page, since then I have set up other pages with better looking gauges, with info that I want to see like trans temp, MPGs, speed/RPM, voltage, etc.

(Photobucket image would go here IF PHOTOBUCKET WAS WORKING!)

The app also reads (all?) codes, I don't have any check engine codes, but my airbag light is on in my Explorer and with the vehicle-specific $10 add on pack, it was able to read all the codes it was throwing related to the airbag. Can't recommend that app enough.

 

[RigsLS]

RE: Just curious though, why do you say it HAS to be OEM vented?




The battery needs to be vented. Period. You can choose to not vent it, but you are risking the possibility of an explosion.

If there isn't a vent plug in the battery, it's the wrong type for this car.



Optima Battery - Battery located in trunk. Non-BCI group size. Battery is vented to outside of vehicle.
source: http://www.autozone.com/batteries-s...ttery/optima-battery-battery/315064_381039_0/

 

[BrianDye]

do you have to lose them? no, do you want to use them? yes. those speakers (the left AND the right) are on one channel, and are there for the OEM radios's Digital Sound Processor to give certain effects like a concert hall. since your radio wont have a 5.1 output, using these speakers will ruin the sound stage since it will either play the left or the right and one of the front seat positions will have either two left speakers or two right speakers, one for each side... then the one that has the correct stereo sound will have time delay issues. so unless you have a DSP that can properly take care of that channel, you should leave it unhooked. plus instead of wasting money on speakers for that location, spend what you would have added to what your gonna spend on the front set and just get better speakers.



http://www.crutchfield.com/p_120705701/Metra-70-5701-Receiver-Wiring-Harness.html

as long as that is what you harness looks like then that is correct, 03s switched which harness they use mid year.



no antenna adapter



honestly. I would rather have the Maestro SW module for retaining steering wheel controls, you set everything up on a computer before you install it, the programming is much easier and the best part is that you can double up the buttons, and have the normal job be a quick press and a second control if you hold the button for a second. this is extremely useful for phone controls like pick up, hang up/reject, and voice control. plus the directions are much clearer and easier to follow as it prints out the complete procedure with a diagram for the specific car (the install itself is exactly the same)

and no reason this cant be done is simple steps part at a time. but go in knowing what you want to do from the start.

personally if ti was me, I would do a NEX unit first, then a 5ch amp running all of the factory speakers (minus the center channels), and then replace all of the speakers. 6.5" components up front (simple adapter plates) with the tweeter in the exact same position as n8bachelor's (and my own). putting full range speakers in the rear deck is not a good idea without a lot of other work to set it up right. for myself, I would just remove them completely and have a standard sub in box, but if you really wanted to save all the room and didn't need a ton of bass or very deep bass, then you could replace them with either 6x9 subs or fab up some adapters like a couple of other have done and put some 8"s in there. either way, that 5ch amp will handle it nicely.

also unless you are looking at Pioneer TS-Ds or better, I would stay away from pioneer. also not a fan at all with running components in the back, if the tweeters are up high, it is too distracting sounding coming from behind you. when I first was running Type Rs i had the rear tweeters surface mounted in the middle of the door and that one tweeter was all you could hear because of how close it was to the drivers left ear, then ended up getting changed out with coaxial versions of the same line (had that specific pair of component speakers been able to be coaxial mounted, they would have been fine)


also I get asked why do a amp before the speakers... well the factory speakers are not too bad, and with some good clean and plentiful power, they will sound pretty darn good.

Thanks for the advice. I'll probably just run some coaxials in the back doors then. 5ch amp sounds like a nice idea to save from wiring separate amps.

And thanks for the tip on the center console speakers, makes total sense. I really haven't even bent down there to see if they actually make a difference anyways. I've seen a few members cut them out and stuff some huge 4-5" speaker there with the aftermarket grille and that just looks awful.

I'll look into that module you mentioned, the dual-function option sounds great.

I've always liked my Pioneer double dins though, I like the low/medium price point, and the overall look and fluidity of the operating system. My last one was the AVH-X4700BS and I loved it.

 

[1LoudLS]

other than a few Alpines and Excelons, I've also always had pioneers, all have been very good headunits for the money, with the one exception being the AVIC-F series, it was plagued with incredible slowness and bugs that were never fully addressed by pioneer, however because of it using being windows based (part of the problem) the software was very hack-able and actually turned out to be a pretty nice (although still slow) unit after I replaced pioneers firmware with a heavily modified version from some of the users over at AVIC411.com... it was replaced a few years ago by an AVH3500BHS which has preformed just fine...

I'm actually looking into getting a AVH-4200NEX for the wife's escape as a headunit for the system I'm building for that in the next couple of months. it is by far one of pioneers best units (non PRS of course) out so far for SQ and having Android Auto is pretty high on the list of requirements.

 

[Blueberryyum02]

You can use the center console speakers what I did wit mines was run both left and right rear outputs from the stereo into them which makes them mono, on the front channel I have the front doors hooked up to the front output in stereo, amped with tweeters connected, it fills in the voice and instruments pretty well, on my stereo I have the rear high pass x over at 220 any lower those factory speakers will sound horrible, so there's no bass coming from them.

I removed the factory subs, and have 1 12 inch sundown in a ported qbass box sub facing forward as close to the rear seat as possible.

The trick is to get the right box for your sub.

Another trick I did to beef up my mid bass in the doors was put dyno mat on the door directly behind the driver, with those foam inserts that stops the water from getting in them, I cut the rear off the foam inserts to have a hood over the top but allow the speaker to breath freely in the door cavity.

While damping the wave on the mat.

Those center console speakers do a good job if crossed over correctly on filling up the front stage.


Also what I did was since my door and tweeters are amped I fade off the front more to the rear channel that way the front don't over power the center speakers, and balance it out well.


It's like having a speaker sit center dash when you use them, my rear door speakers are not connected since the front fills the cabin well enough to render them obsolete.

 

[1LoudLS]

Also what I did was since my door and tweeters are amped I fade off the front more to the rear channel that way the front don't over power the center speakers, and balance it out well.

instead of fading off of the front channel, you should turn the gain down to match instead... higher gain + lower signal = less desirable. when that is the case, you're amping the weaker signal AND its background noise as well. turning the gain down a little bit and raising the signal level going to it will result in amping any back ground noise and allow more of the music to be more pure.

however I guess if the missing range of sound from below the 220hz crossover point and the natural fall off of a 12" sub in a ported box (especially with a sub with as much excursion as Sundowns have) dont bother you, nor does the time alignment issues of those center channel speakers cause with the difference in distance they are, then it probably doesn't bother you was well.

 

[Blueberryyum02]

1loud I tried that, the amp on my door speakers is set to its lowest gain, the center console speakers, are still running off the factory amp, so there's not much I can do with them in turns of tweaking its settings, besides the head unit adjustments. So fading off the front like one or two notches is all I can do since the front doors amp gains are turned to the stop counter clock wise, the amp only do 45watts per channel in stereo mode, which is still louder then the stock amp and speaker in the console.

 

[1LoudLS]

do you have a hi/lo switch, almost every amp I've ever used has been near dead quiet with the gain turned to zero.

 

[Blueberryyum02]

If by hi/low you mean hi pass low pass xover yes I run it at full and use the head unit for xover functions because it has a better slope then the amp, the amp do not drop off gradually its a sharper slope, I want to say 20 and the head unit is 18 on the slope.

 

[1LoudLS]

If by hi/low you mean hi pass low pass xover

no, I mean a HIgh level input (speaker wires) or a LOw level input (RCA cables)

some amps have a separate connector for using speaker level inputs, a lot of good amps (like my kickers) only have the RCA connectors to get signal in, and a selector for the what signal you are sending in.

if you are using RCA cables (low level) and its too loud, then you could set it to high level and see if that drops it enough, but if you were running the speaker wires into the amp and had it set to low level input, it could be too loud at its lowest setting.

I want to say 20 and the head unit is 18 on the slope.

orders of crossovers jump in 6dB/octave, so if the radio is third order (18dB/octave) and the amp is steeper, then it would have to be 4th order with is 24dB/octave.

if the amp has the steeper Xover slopes, you might want to try using them instead of the radio, then you can have the freq set to a low number, but have it drop off much more sharply getting rid of more freq's below that point, this could allow the speakers to see a little lower freq but still have the same or less deeper bass causing thats them to distort while also making your freq gap smaller

 

[Blueberryyum02]

I see yes I'm useing low level inputs on the front stage speakers, i used the amp crossover before switching to the head unit, the cut off was too sharp I could never get it to my liking. It was either not enough bass up front or to much. With the head unit my kappas can play down to 60 hertz so I cross them at 80 and it falls off smoother then the amp was crossover was doing.

It's the tweeters that play loud I might just move them lower on the door or hook them back up to the radio directly since they have a built in crossover on them. And send less power to them that way. And see if it tame the more. I tried the 8 ohm resistors (I forget which ones I have would have to look at them) to drop the input singnal after the amp but it made them to quiet, and the sound did not blend well with the sub in the back.

 

[1LoudLS]

are the tweeters attenuation switch set to +0dB and not +3dB on the crossovers?

 

[Blueberryyum02]

0 db

 

[IcedLS]

I agree with 1loudls. Leave the stock speakers for now and amp them until your ready for good quality door speakers. I did the same and was pleased for some time.


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