Frogman
Dedicated LVC Member
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2005
- Messages
- 6,987
- Reaction score
- 1
In that case, I duly stand corrected.
But I still like Turbos better. :lol:
But I still like Turbos better. :lol:
Twin remote Turbo.....
- Thread starter chris
- Start date
turborich
Dedicated LVC Member
Frogman said:
With some modification, ok then what is this remote turbo thing? looks like a lot of modification to me plus who wants a couple of turbos hanging off their exhaust pipes? looks like about a minute to steal em. Just looks like a crappy solution. I'm sure their are better ways... like a custom turbo kit, supercharger modified to work or nos.
Frogman
Dedicated LVC Member
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2005
- Messages
- 6,987
- Reaction score
- 1
[rant]
Well sir... If you are so SURE, why don't you come up with a "better way"?
I mean, it's easy to sit in front of a computer screen and say "I'm sure their (sic) are better ways".
Yes, I am sure there are better ways, but until someone gets off their butt and develops this better way, some people do with what's available.
No disrespect, and I don't mean to offend my fellow mark VIII owners, but some of you strike me as downright stingy and or cheap... and I'm not the olny one who fels this way, but in the interest of confidentiality, I will keep those names to myself.
Someone comes up with an idea, a lot of people may be for it, then when the time comes, you find only a fraction of the "interested" ones that will actually pay to have the part, kit, whatever. How long has this Mark VIII supercharger project been going on? Why is it not done yet? Because a lot of people are just that, dreamers. When it comes to ponying up the money for a deposit, or something to show they are TRULY interested, guess what? They don't do it.
I'm betting that if I were to get 20 people interested and who would ante up the $$, I could have a 2.2 Liter Autorotor kit done for the Mark VIII's in a matter of 6 months.
But the problem is, not too many people want to/can afford such expensive mods. Sure, they'll dream about it, and say they are interested, but alas, I fall back to what I said earlier.
/rant
Sorry bout the rant, but damn! everyone has a "better way", yet no one is doing jack about it.
Well sir... If you are so SURE, why don't you come up with a "better way"?
I mean, it's easy to sit in front of a computer screen and say "I'm sure their (sic) are better ways".
Yes, I am sure there are better ways, but until someone gets off their butt and develops this better way, some people do with what's available.
No disrespect, and I don't mean to offend my fellow mark VIII owners, but some of you strike me as downright stingy and or cheap... and I'm not the olny one who fels this way, but in the interest of confidentiality, I will keep those names to myself.
Someone comes up with an idea, a lot of people may be for it, then when the time comes, you find only a fraction of the "interested" ones that will actually pay to have the part, kit, whatever. How long has this Mark VIII supercharger project been going on? Why is it not done yet? Because a lot of people are just that, dreamers. When it comes to ponying up the money for a deposit, or something to show they are TRULY interested, guess what? They don't do it.
I'm betting that if I were to get 20 people interested and who would ante up the $$, I could have a 2.2 Liter Autorotor kit done for the Mark VIII's in a matter of 6 months.
But the problem is, not too many people want to/can afford such expensive mods. Sure, they'll dream about it, and say they are interested, but alas, I fall back to what I said earlier.
/rant
Sorry bout the rant, but damn! everyone has a "better way", yet no one is doing jack about it.
John Hubertz
Well-Known LVC Member
For most of us, a turbo installation would be better than a supercharger....superchargers are designed for short bursts, which is why race cars other then dragsters don't use them. Turbos are a consistent, sustainable source of increased HP.... The issue is charge-air preheating I guess - I don't know the physics but it is so much an issue that Ford has actually used an AC system-cooled supercharger intake intercooler on some truck installations.
Turbos can provide the kind of sustained ooomph that a lux car will truly benefit from....
$5000 - $8000? To h*ll with that....buy a couple of used Saab 9000 setups (almost bulletproof) and get building! The intercoolers would be a HUGE issue for us... not enough frontal airflow as it is.
Turbos can provide the kind of sustained ooomph that a lux car will truly benefit from....
$5000 - $8000? To h*ll with that....buy a couple of used Saab 9000 setups (almost bulletproof) and get building! The intercoolers would be a HUGE issue for us... not enough frontal airflow as it is.
Frogman
Dedicated LVC Member
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2005
- Messages
- 6,987
- Reaction score
- 1
You Sir are correct and at the same time, wrong, IMHO.
Superchargers, like a screw type Auto Rotor has a "flat" (more or less) torque curve from around 2700RPM to redline, depending on the setup.
Turbos (depending on size, setup, etc) will achieve full boost at around 3000 RPM.
The A/C setup is used by FORD in the Lightning truck, and if you read up on it, you will see it is designed to cool the air for a short time. I can't remember the exact maximum time, but I am pretty sure it's under one minute. After that, the air cooling is taken up by the intercooler alone, until the A/C cooling system "recharges".
Now mind you, I come from the supercharger crowd, but I've done quite a bit of research on the Turbo situation. I'm not Gung Ho' about turbos, but until something better comes along, it is my humble opinion that turbos will have to do on our Marks.
On a remote mount setup an IC may not be needed, since the air charge piping runs for 12+ feet under the car before it goes into the intake manifold. Does that mean an Ic is absolutely NOT necessary? No, ofcourse not. But the length of the charge piping surely, will help cool the intake charge. Deffinitely not as much as an IC, but still.
Push come to shove, a little methanol injection never hurt.
Superchargers, like a screw type Auto Rotor has a "flat" (more or less) torque curve from around 2700RPM to redline, depending on the setup.
Turbos (depending on size, setup, etc) will achieve full boost at around 3000 RPM.
The A/C setup is used by FORD in the Lightning truck, and if you read up on it, you will see it is designed to cool the air for a short time. I can't remember the exact maximum time, but I am pretty sure it's under one minute. After that, the air cooling is taken up by the intercooler alone, until the A/C cooling system "recharges".
Now mind you, I come from the supercharger crowd, but I've done quite a bit of research on the Turbo situation. I'm not Gung Ho' about turbos, but until something better comes along, it is my humble opinion that turbos will have to do on our Marks.
On a remote mount setup an IC may not be needed, since the air charge piping runs for 12+ feet under the car before it goes into the intake manifold. Does that mean an Ic is absolutely NOT necessary? No, ofcourse not. But the length of the charge piping surely, will help cool the intake charge. Deffinitely not as much as an IC, but still.
Push come to shove, a little methanol injection never hurt.
Frogman
Dedicated LVC Member
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2005
- Messages
- 6,987
- Reaction score
- 1
You Sir are correct and at the same time, wrong, IMHO.
Superchargers, like a screw type Auto Rotor has a "flat" (more or less) torque curve from around 2700RPM to redline, depending on the setup.
Turbos (depending on size, setup, etc) will achieve full boost at around 3000 RPM.
The A/C setup is used by FORD in the Lightning truck, and if you read up on it, you will see it is designed to cool the air for a short time. I can't remember the exact maximum time, but I am pretty sure it's under one minute. After that, the air cooling is taken up by the intercooler alone, until the A/C cooling system "recharges".
Now mind you, I come from the supercharger crowd, but I've done quite a bit of research on the Turbo situation. I'm not Gung Ho' about turbos, but until something better comes along, it is my humble opinion that turbos will have to do on our Marks.
On a remote mount setup an IC may not be needed, since the air charge piping runs for 12+ feet under the car before it goes into the intake manifold. Does that mean an Ic is absolutely NOT necessary? No, ofcourse not. But the length of the charge piping surely, will help cool the intake charge. Deffinitely not as much as an IC, but still.
Push come to shove, a little methanol injection never hurt.
Superchargers, like a screw type Auto Rotor has a "flat" (more or less) torque curve from around 2700RPM to redline, depending on the setup.
Turbos (depending on size, setup, etc) will achieve full boost at around 3000 RPM.
The A/C setup is used by FORD in the Lightning truck, and if you read up on it, you will see it is designed to cool the air for a short time. I can't remember the exact maximum time, but I am pretty sure it's under one minute. After that, the air cooling is taken up by the intercooler alone, until the A/C cooling system "recharges".
Now mind you, I come from the supercharger crowd, but I've done quite a bit of research on the Turbo situation. I'm not Gung Ho' about turbos, but until something better comes along, it is my humble opinion that turbos will have to do on our Marks.
On a remote mount setup an IC may not be needed, since the air charge piping runs for 12+ feet under the car before it goes into the intake manifold. Does that mean an Ic is absolutely NOT necessary? No, ofcourse not. But the length of the charge piping surely, will help cool the intake charge. Deffinitely not as much as an IC, but still.
Push come to shove, a little methanol injection never hurt.
mhinchley
Active LVC Member
I have owned a SC'd 89 Mustang, a Grand National, a heavily built 355 cu S10, and many 60's-70's Cutlass, Challenger, Chevelle, etc cars. I prefered the Mustang of all. Reason being, parts were readily available, and power was available where ever wanted. All you needed do was downshift a gear and away you went. The GN was a close second...........but being an automatic.........you needed to be in the right rpm range for it to really take off. And even down shifting the auto did not work as well as the 5 speed. So with the Mustang parts being affordable, combined with getting 18 mpg average, with 450-500 hp available...........and a 5 spd.............I just feel it is the most bang for the buck. These Marks are jsut too expensive to make fast. And even when you spend it, there is a Mustang or Camaro or Corvette around the corner with half as much in it, that will badly beat you. And I am a Mark lover. This is my 2nd one. But the parts price do not justify the cost. I just enjoy the car for what it was made for. Luxury Sports Coupe type car.
John Hubertz
Well-Known LVC Member
Geez I'd love to see someone build one - the Saab low-velocity 9000 turbos would be PERFECT - the displacement and torque curve characteristics of that engine mean the match would be just about exact....
We already have knock sensors and tons of 1/2 a 4.6 technology you could swap from a Mustang SVO...
We already have knock sensors and tons of 1/2 a 4.6 technology you could swap from a Mustang SVO...
Frogman
Dedicated LVC Member
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2005
- Messages
- 6,987
- Reaction score
- 1
I know a couple of people working on a Remote mount TT setup.
turborich
Dedicated LVC Member
I have seen plenty of mark VIII's on the web with a centrifical type supercharger on them, they dont flatten out. Its basicly a turbo thats turned by a belt vs. exhaust. There is a guy here in town who did a totally custom turbo set-up on a mark. There are other ways, thats all that i'm saying. If your going to do it then do it right. but each of us has our own oppinion and that makes for a good discussion.
Greenmachine
Active LVC Member
thats why god invented nitrous!!!!!!!!!!
Ponyfreak is supposed to start work on a tt setup. The real problem I see is space. God damn engine is so huge, plus little space behind the bumper to mount turbos. Mustangs always had it good in this category, lots of space. Someone was mentioning an issue with a intercooler. Use a vortech water to air intercooler. A heat exchanger is much smaller than a air-air intercooler. As frogman mentioned people in the lincoln crowd are too afraid to mod. I doubt any seriousness will be payed to turbos. The only ones you will see are custom setups. You gotta ask how much HP you need.
Think about it this way, 600-700hp will cost at least 10,000, that is on the cheap side. You need:
turbo setup- custom, and fricking expensive
built longblock-4-5g depending on parts
tranny-3,000
driveshaft-500
upgraded irs-500
intake, injectors, fuel pumps, line-1000
This is just the begining. IMO slap a centri on it and be done. Good power, not a lot of work involved. Of course what the hell do I know, I'll probably be looking at tt in a year.
Think about it this way, 600-700hp will cost at least 10,000, that is on the cheap side. You need:
turbo setup- custom, and fricking expensive
built longblock-4-5g depending on parts
tranny-3,000
driveshaft-500
upgraded irs-500
intake, injectors, fuel pumps, line-1000
This is just the begining. IMO slap a centri on it and be done. Good power, not a lot of work involved. Of course what the hell do I know, I'll probably be looking at tt in a year.
Frogman
Dedicated LVC Member
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2005
- Messages
- 6,987
- Reaction score
- 1
Greenmachine said:
I don't say this often... You are an idiot.
Don Lino,
10 Grand? With respect, we should be so lucky.
$3200 Ball Bearing turbos (Includes Wastegates and BOV)
~$1000 Custom exhaust and intake
~$550 Headers
~$1200 IRS (Gears, Bushings, Swaybar, Carrier Brace and Half Shafts)
~$550 Driveshaft
$2400 Tranny (Yes, I know, Geno sells them for 1700 installed, but he won't ship them. His loss)
$750 Torque Converter
$5500 Motor (Low compression Forged Rotating Assembly) + accessories, nots and bolts, and ofcourse, prepping and assembly work
$3100 Custom Head porting and cams (assembled ready to rock)
~$1200 For a custom fuel system (may or may not include injectors)
~$600 Cobra Intake
~$450 for a Nice Turbo controller.
$978 Custom K Member
$1600 Can't have all this power and no way to stop it. Brakes.
-------------
~ $23,078
I am not including little stuff like Motor Mounts, front swaybar, new wheels to clear the biger brakes, new rubber for the wheels, etc etc.
Yes, it does get expensive. That's why most people here are all talk and no action.
You can make over 600 hp in a modular for less than 20 grand.
The uber-fancy ball bearing turbos are a waste of money on most setups. A GT42 with the standard bushing can get you over 700 rwhp for $1200. You also don't need to spend thousands of dollars on headwork for 4 valve motors to make power. They flow reasonably well out of the box, and boost makes up for a lot.
Paul.
The uber-fancy ball bearing turbos are a waste of money on most setups. A GT42 with the standard bushing can get you over 700 rwhp for $1200. You also don't need to spend thousands of dollars on headwork for 4 valve motors to make power. They flow reasonably well out of the box, and boost makes up for a lot.
Paul.
Thats why I said "on the cheap side" Everyone 
knows you can build a forged engine for about 5g, throw a good tranny and converter in, and blow it. That is an easy way to make 600. With little port work and cams (read not much money) one can make 600 with around 17-18lbs of boost. Of course everything needs to be upgraded in the driveline.
Bottom line speed costs-How fast you wanna go?
knows you can build a forged engine for about 5g, throw a good tranny and converter in, and blow it. That is an easy way to make 600. With little port work and cams (read not much money) one can make 600 with around 17-18lbs of boost. Of course everything needs to be upgraded in the driveline. Bottom line speed costs-How fast you wanna go?
MarkOfDeath
Dedicated LVC Member
I dont understand why you would have to buy there kit, make your own
John Hubertz
Well-Known LVC Member
I'm out of the horsepower business....in fact I kind of resent the 280 I have....since I just caught a ticket like an idiot.
Hell, mine's mostly a pimped ride anyway, why I drive it like a fool God only knows.... live and learn.
Guess I'm getting old, huh?
Hell, mine's mostly a pimped ride anyway, why I drive it like a fool God only knows.... live and learn.
Guess I'm getting old, huh?
Greenmachine
Active LVC Member
Hey Froggy All I was getting att was the cost factor. $500 as to anywhere from say $3500 to as some say $30 grand. Thats all I was getting at.
Dominus
Dedicated LVC Member
No advantage in price, disadvantage in efficiency, no thanks.