U.S. is the next Greece

[Calabrio]

No.
Monetary policy only has to be tied to fiscal policy (for the country with the 'reserve currency) if there are other countries with stronger balance sheets and an economy sufficiently large enough to absorb the demands
of the world for currency to trade.

At the moment, the entire world is in or headed towards fiscal calamity. That makes our position, vis a vis printing money, not only viable but expedient. I'm not advocating that course of action, but this is an economic discussion.

Once the rest of the world goes boom, we go boom.

I don't think I disagree with you what you're saying depending on how you're using the word expedient. Since you're not advocating the policy, I presume you mean that it's just promoting a short term objective without regarding the long term consequence.

And it also leaves out the option of a country or cartel switching back to a gold standard or currency backed by precious metals or some other commodity. I think there was some discussion of Dubai going over to the gold standard with their currency a couple years ago.

I think it's critical that everyone viewing current events realize things aren't static. Everything that we've come to accept as permanent is subject to changing and correcting itself. We're going to go through a period of great change and we need to be on the right side of history, we need to get our affairs in order, and maintain our independence from the pit the rest of the world is going to sink into- in order to avoid the "boom" you refer to.

 

[PetesSweets86]

tada

 

[Kstills]

I don't think I disagree with you what you're saying depending on how you're using the word expedient. Since you're not advocating the policy, I presume you mean that it's just promoting a short term objective without regarding the long term consequence.

And it also leaves out the option of a country or cartel switching back to a gold standard or currency backed by precious metals or some other commodity. I think there was some discussion of Dubai going over to the gold standard with their currency a couple years ago.

I think it's critical that everyone viewing current events realize things aren't static. Everything that we've come to accept as permanent is subject to changing and correcting itself. We're going to go through a period of great change and we need to be on the right side of history, we need to get our affairs in order, and maintain our independence from the pit the rest of the world is going to sink into- in order to avoid the "boom" you refer to.

Yes, I was using 'expedient' to denote political expediency, not economic competency.

And you are correct, we're seeing the end of the current regime of fiat currency usage brought about by the agreement of Bretton Woods, and BW II.

There are vast forces (and I'm not talking tin foil conspiracy here) that are aligned to maintain the ability of banks and governments to have first access to capital, and that demands the use of a fiat currency. Any move back to a fixed value metric (gold, silver, whatever) will have to be done violently, as the powers that be have much to much invested in maintaining the status quo.

The banks need inflation for their profits, and the politicians are too venal and/or stupid to redress the injustice that that type of economic model brings about for people who don't have first access to capital.

Again, this isn't a vast cabal in conspiracy here, this is just entrenched powers trying to maintain their control over the current system. It remains to be seen if they can do it, once the final leg down actually occurs.

 

[foxpaws]

Isn't part of the reason we have a high amount of money in circulation is due to slow economic progress causing banks to lend less - along with the fact that people are borrowing less, and using cash instead of credit?

What about the M2 and M3 figures - are they skewed as much as the M1 figure you quote Cal?

Also - gold and silver and gems - really? If it gets to that point all it will come down to is ammo and food and energy. Watch "A Boy and His Dog" (or of course Mad Max, but not nearly as fun as A Boy and His Dog).

 

[fossten]

Isn't part of the reason we have a high amount of money in circulation is due to slow economic progress causing banks to lend less - along with the fact that people are borrowing less, and using cash instead of credit?

What about the M2 and M3 figures - are they skewed as much as the M1 figure you quote Cal?

Also - gold and silver and gems - really? If it gets to that point all it will come down to is ammo and food and energy. Watch "A Boy and His Dog" (or of course Mad Max, but not nearly as fun as A Boy and His Dog).

Citing a movie for financial advice?

Brilliant.

Read "Patriots: Surviving the Coming Collapse" instead, or Peter Schiff's new book.

 

[foxpaws]

So, Foss, why have gold or silver or gems - you can't eat them, you can't burn them, and you can't kill anyone with them. They will be just as useless as a $100 bill if the country falls to the level that you are talking about.

 

[fossten]

So, Foss, why have gold or silver or gems - you can't eat them, you can't burn them, and you can't kill anyone with them. They will be just as useless as a $100 bill if the country falls to the level that you are talking about.

In the worst of times, ammo and food will be the main staples, but if there is a slight recovery and you see some trading, gems and precious metals will still be usable as currency. It's always been that way - just study your history. Paper money fails, gold does not.

And gold/silver is NEVER as worthless as our faux fiat paper money. That's an ignorant statement.

 

[Kstills]

Isn't part of the reason we have a high amount of money in circulation is due to slow economic progress causing banks to lend less - along with the fact that people are borrowing less, and using cash instead of credit?

What about the M2 and M3 figures - are they skewed as much as the M1 figure you quote Cal?

Also - gold and silver and gems - really? If it gets to that point all it will come down to is ammo and food and energy. Watch "A Boy and His Dog" (or of course Mad Max, but not nearly as fun as A Boy and His Dog).

Recent analysis (see Mish's blog) indicates that money 'creation' follows lending, not vice versa.

One can force money into the system, however one cannot force people to either lend or borrow. Which is where we find ourselves right now.

The only folks really profiting, again, are the ones who get the first access to the money. Our increase in stock prices reflect not fundementals (look at the yields) but a see of liquidity.

Eventually, real value has to be created, or another bubble will pop.

 

[PetesSweets86]

i can agree that in the end we can become stable like the "old west" as the earth can replenish itself once we stop exhausting our resources. So once oil is gone, collapse of money/government...then we can surely become the ol' wild west with some gun slinging, pirating, farmers, familiesliving together, reusing water and cleaning dishes without a dish washer..nothing but a bucket of cold water/ water over a fire for killing germs....when I had to go to an environmentalist junior high we had to learn all the tricks to survive in the wilderness. Even taking Holyoak and chewing it up then putting it on a cut or inflamation will act as a healing oilment. Or huckleberries to act as a laxative when on a high protein diet. How to hunt and everything.....I hated the knittting though....really sucks making crap out of wood/bark

 

[PetesSweets86]

in adition gemstone, gold, and silver are a tradable commodity. ppl think the world will end and I say NOOO we will just start over from some time era. Sure many will die do to the fact they don't know how to survive in a non city environment..or how to grow or kill their own food. speaking of which...I should start taking bow lessons again....or buy a crossbow...that's very good for high velocity penetration when hunting...just slower on the reload

 

[fossten]

in adition gemstone, gold, and silver are a tradable commodity. ppl think the world will end and I say NOOO we will just start over from some time era. Sure many will die do to the fact they don't know how to survive in a non city environment..or how to grow or kill their own food. speaking of which...I should start taking bow lessons again....or buy a crossbow...that's very good for high velocity penetration when hunting...just slower on the reload

I have a brand new Excalibur. It PWNS.

 

[PetesSweets86]

hellz yeah!

don't let the movie "the road" fool you. You really think that no veggetation will exsist when economy and gernship exist? That ppl become cannibals or there's just one big truck that's still driving around?

 

[fossten]

hellz yeah!

don't let the movie "the road" fool you. You really think that no veggetation will exsist when economy and gernship exist? That ppl become cannibals or there's just one big truck that's still driving around?

First time I took the Ex out, I hit target six times in a row at 60 yards with the factory sights - no scope. Bolt takes about 1 second to get there. Unbelievable. Quiet too.

 

[foxpaws]

cleaning dishes without a dish washer...

Oh my god, kill me first

If our economy was to collapse on the scale that has been suggested on this forum, we will have to go through the food/ammo/energy phase before we get back to a bartering system that includes items that have no 'real' value, such as gold.

Oh, both movies go through a nuclear holocaust phase - that is why the lack of vegetation, et all. In A Boy and His Dog the sterilization as a result of radiation exposure is key to the plot of the story.

If the US economy fails to the extent that you are 'prophesying' the world's would as well - and many models show that there would be some sort of nuclear weapon scenario as a result.

 

[fossten]

Oh my god, kill me first

If our economy was to collapse on the scale that has been suggested on this forum, we will have to go through the food/ammo/energy phase before we get back to a bartering system that includes items that have no 'real' value, such as gold.

Oh, both movies go through a nuclear holocaust phase - that is why the lack of vegetation, et all. In A Boy and His Dog the sterilization as a result of radiation exposure is key to the plot of the story.

If the US economy fails to the extent that you are 'prophesying' the world's would as well - and many models show that there would be some sort of nuclear weapon scenario as a result.

Aww, Ricky, there's no reason to be snarky - I haven't prophesied anything. Clearly we don't disagree on this subject as much as you would like us to - your first paragraph is almost word for word copied from what I said. Maybe you aren't as 'creative' a writer as you have bragged to be - or maybe you just enjoy typing. Maybe it's a 'Deep Throat' thing - except your **** is in your fingertips.

 

[foxpaws]

Aww, there's no reason to be snarky - I haven't prophesied anything. Clearly we don't disagree on this subject as much as you would like us to - your first paragraph is almost word for word copied from what I said. Maybe you aren't as 'creative' a writer as you have bragged to be - or maybe you just enjoy typing.

Foss, dear, we don't disagree on the initial part of this subject, and I was trying to reinforce a basic idea that we both appear to think will occur, we will scooping up the dredges of civilization before we get back to some sort of organized society, to Pete. I however believe you are rather naive thinking it will be gold and silver that will become the 'currency' of the future. Why? Platinum, man made rubies, there are many things out there with far more 'value' these days than gold and silver. And unless we lose all knowledge when we lose civilization, there could be many things that would be more valuable to our future selves than gold and silver.

And I was talking to Pete as well with regards to the 'prophesying" statement... Sorry - not you dear. The whole post you quote was trying to clarify some points to Pete - like the nuclear holocaust, etc.

So, banking on the middle ages, Foss (which is what you are doing with the hope that it is gold and silver that the future will value), is that really a good bet?

Gosh, and that whole 'failing Creative Writing 101' still chaffs doesn't it dear?

 

[taylor414ce2003]

in adition gemstone, gold, and silver are a tradable commodity. ppl think the world will end and I say NOOO we will just start over from some time era. Sure many will die do to the fact they don't know how to survive in a non city environment..or how to grow or kill their own food. speaking of which...I should start taking bow lessons again....or buy a crossbow...that's very good for high velocity penetration when hunting...just slower on the reload

The wildlife will be gone in no time leaving us nothing to hunt but rats and each other.Gangs will take over and control whatever food/clothing and anything worth trading is left.

Just recently a main waterpipe broke leaving about 30 towns in my area without clean drinking water, LOCAL supermarkets and conv.stores where sold out of water in a matter of hours,people where hoarding water and starting fights in line(drive 20mins n,s, e, or w and stores were stocked full of h20 ) I dont evan want to think about what would happen in a real catastrophic event.Basicaly I think the world would be like Mad Max movie

 

[fossten]

Gosh, and that whole 'failing Creative Writing 101' still chaffs doesn't it dear?

The amusing part is that you think I'm referencing your gaffe because it somehow 'got to me.' The fact is that I'm mocking you, since you constantly brag about your writing 'prowess' and you're a) too obtuse to realize it or b) too narcissistic to acknowledge it.

Narcissistic really fits because you tend to try to make every discussion about you.

I'm not willing to believe that you're that obtuse yet.

Platinum - lots of coins floating around, eh?

As far as rubies - doesn't that fall under 'gemstones?' See, there you go again, trying to find something to write about so you can sound smart, and you end up reinventing the wheel under the guise of pointing out a distinction rather than a difference.

 

[foxpaws]

The amusing part is that you think I'm referencing your gaffe because it somehow 'got to me.' The fact is that I'm mocking you, since you constantly brag about your writing 'prowess' and you're a) too obtuse to realize it or b) too narcissistic to acknowledge it.

Narcissistic really fits because you tend to try to make every discussion about you.

I'm not willing to believe that you're that obtuse yet.

Platinum - lots of coins floating around, eh?

As far as rubies - doesn't that fall under 'gemstones?' See, there you go again, trying to find something to write about so you can sound smart, and you end up reinventing the wheel under the guise of pointing out a distinction rather than a difference.

Man made rubies - not gemstones - they are man made.... synthetic... used commonly in lasers and manufacturing.

Gemstone quality (natural rubies) wouldn't work - they have to be free of inclusions and need to be rod shaped.

So, Foss - you didn't answer my question - why do you think gold and silver are going to be the 'currency' of the future? Why choose them instead of platinum bars or coins (yes they do have them Foss - maybe you should investigate them, instead of your fixation on old world metals)?

 

[PetesSweets86]

The wildlife will be gone in no time leaving us nothing to hunt but rats and each other.Gangs will take over and control whatever food/clothing and anything worth trading is left.

Just recently a main waterpipe broke leaving about 30 towns in my area without clean drinking water, LOCAL supermarkets and conv.stores where sold out of water in a matter of hours,people where hoarding water and starting fights in line(drive 20mins n,s, e, or w and stores were stocked full of h20 ) I dont evan want to think about what would happen in a real catastrophic event.Basicaly I think the world would be like Mad Max movie

and yet all SOMEONE had to do was get a bucket...get some of that water that poured out...get some wood, get very dry bark....crack some stones (rigid ones) over the dry bark with maybe some dry wheat or grass and create a fire..then put that bucket of water over the fire you creat..the strain it using a shirt...rag or whatever into another bucket..then put that bucket over the fire again...let it cool off...then drink the damn thing! not that hard, AMERICANS!

 

[PetesSweets86]

women will be our currency YouTube- VERY YOUNG GIRLS Trailer

 

[MonsterMark]

...when I had to go to an environmentalist junior high we had to learn all the tricks to survive in the wilderness. Even taking Holyoak and chewing it up then putting it on a cut or inflamation will act as a healing oilment. Or huckleberries to act as a laxative when on a high protein diet. How to hunt and everything.....I hated the knittting though....really sucks making crap out of wood/bark

With your background as a masseuse sounds like you're gonna make a real nice wife for some guy. Rubbing, cooking, cleaning, knitting... you got it all.

 

[foxpaws]

Oh, so it's a 'fixation' now? How polite of you. And here I was actually wondering if you'd get through an entire thread without insulting me. Alas, I don't think it's in your nature to be anything but condescending and nasty.

I have no interest in discussing any of this with you given your tendency to use pejoratives and insult rather than discuss things openly and honestly.

I'll just speak with the adults from now on.

'fixation on old world metals' is an insult foss, sweetheart? From someone who's insults towards me are summarily removed by the moderators, even though I ask them to not delete them (they are wonderfully insightful to you Foss, dearest).

But, once again, I see that you have avoided stating any reason why you think that gold and silver would be the hoarders metals of choice in the future.

 

[fossten]

Do the rest of the world a favor and go play in traffic.

 

[Calabrio]

Isn't part of the reason we have a high amount of money in circulation is due to slow economic progress causing banks to lend less - along with the fact that people are borrowing less, and using cash instead of credit?

No, it's because they have printed more.
Printing it is the alternative to borrowing it.

What about the M2 and M3 figures - are they skewed as much as the M1 figure you quote Cal?

For the sake of this discussion, does it matter if people are saving or investing more inflated currency?
I don't think M3 figures are public. But from what I've seen, the M2 figure has gone up, but not as much as the M1 figure.

Also - gold and silver and gems - really?

Why not? It's a store of value.
Don't think Mad Max, think Weimar.