Underdrive Crank Pulley?

GrayGhost1 said:
Understand where you're coming from. However, are you a dyno specialist? Just wondering because it seems you have ALL the answers.
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Not an automotive dyno specialist. I've been in on a few pulls over the years (both engine and chassis) but I DID run a jet engine test facility in the Navy for a while and that gave me a good understanding of the proper criteria for doing comparitive testing. It's really just common sense to a great degree. the only dependable method for determining net power gains from modifications is make sure the rest is constant. The same car, same dyno, same ambient conditions, etc, etc. As soon as you lose those constant factors, you introduce unknown variables into the mix and at that point, your conclusions will be skewed.
 
Katshot said:
Do you have any concept of "comparitive data"? You could take two virtually identical cars and get widely varying dyno data. The very idea of using data from two totally different cars for the purpose of comparing net gains/losses from modifications done is ridiculous. And as was pointed out, doing a pull after more than one mod was done and thinking you can determine in any way what the gain/loss was from either mod is also ridiculous. All you did was waste your time and money on the dyno if you were intent on getting data from each mod. You got a "net" result which means very little with respect to the individual mod.
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Katshot is 100% right, i think you are just taking him wrong. Your specific vehicle could very well have gained 30 HP. However, the exact same model car, that came out of assembly next in line could gain 20 HP. Every engine is different. You need to do a battery of testing on multiple vehicles and come up with an average gain. In addition to this, ambient temperature and humidity make a great deal of difference. In other words, it's just not right to market a product with results based on one vehicle. And if anyone needs any dyno 101, My father was head dyno engineer for Champion Spark Plug/Dana Corp. for about 10 years here in Toledo before he resigned in 96. I'm sure he can dispell any dyno myths or questions. The above statements however, are pure common sense. Not arguable.

BTW, if you guys are going to sell this kit for $400+ you should at least include a heat shield of some sort. There is a large hole below the stock air box that is plenty big enough to draw cool air from, as well as the hole that is in the drivers fender for the stock inlet. A heat shield from the strut tower to the head light with a tight seal up top on the hood would be perfect. I can't see how you charge $400 for something that would take me 30 minutes to bend up in my Dads shop. And if you other LS owner really want this intake, just go to any local shop that has a rotary draw mandrel bender and have one made, you'll have MAYBE $150 in materials/labor (and thats including the air filter). And for another $50, im use you can talk one of the guys into welding on the Idle Air and PCV port nipples.
 
mikepietras04 said:
Katshot is 100% right, i think you are just taking him wrong. Your specific vehicle could very well have gained 30 HP. However, the exact same model car, that came out of assembly next in line could gain 20 HP. Every engine is different. You need to do a battery of testing on multiple vehicles and come up with an average gain. In addition to this, ambient temperature and humidity make a great deal of difference. In other words, it's just not right to market a product with results based on one vehicle. And if anyone needs any dyno 101, My father was head dyno engineer for Champion Spark Plug/Dana Corp. for about 10 years here in Toledo before he resigned in 96. I'm sure he can dispell any dyno myths or questions. The above statements however, are pure common sense. Not arguable.

BTW, if you guys are going to sell this kit for $400+ you should at least include a heat shield of some sort. There is a large hole below the stock air box that is plenty big enough to draw cool air from, as well as the hole that is in the drivers fender for the stock inlet. A heat shield from the strut tower to the head light with a tight seal up top on the hood would be perfect. I can't see how you charge $400 for something that would take me 30 minutes to bend up in my Dads shop. And if you other LS owner really want this intake, just go to any local shop that has a rotary draw mandrel bender and have one made, you'll have MAYBE $150 in materials/labor (and thats including the air filter). And for another $50, im use you can talk one of the guys into welding on the Idle Air and PCV port nipples.
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Yep, he gets it! Establishing trends IS a viable alternative but not as easy to do. Takes a lot of vehicles and someone that truely understands how to corellate the data to come up with a realistic conclusion.
 
mikepietras04 said:
I can't see how you charge $400 for something that would take me 30 minutes to bend up in my Dads shop. And if you other LS owner really want this intake, just go to any local shop that has a rotary draw mandrel bender and have one made, you'll have MAYBE $150 in materials/labor (and thats including the air filter). And for another $50, im use you can talk one of the guys into welding on the Idle Air and PCV port nipples.
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Ok, I'll say it again for you too. If you can make it cheaper then do it. What part of that don't you understand?
 
I've seen this on some threads here. What does it mean when somebody posts but there is no text?
 
I talked with ASP racing. They said it would take ALOT of interest for them to tool the part up. SO....anyone interested let me know or Email ASP racing.
 
If this truly will do something for the LS, I would be interested. I would like to know the actual estimated gains for doing this and at least an estimate in price. I mean if we are talking $800, I might tend to think no use.
 
Underdrive Pulley by ASP....soon

VTOgre said:
If this truly will do something for the LS, I would be interested. I would like to know the actual estimated gains for doing this and at least an estimate in price. I mean if we are talking $800, I might tend to think no use.
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ASP said to send in a used pulley and thed take a look. Ill probably drop the cash to get it tooled up and see how it goes. Im looking at a 19-23% underdrive and new serpentine belt. More thank likely ill offer it on ebay
Justin
Venture Motorsports
 
Sifrino3 said:
That don't tell me shizzy! I want stock LS performing with just a CAI. . .
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My stock LS: 15.506 @ 91.01 in the 1/4.

My stock LS w/ LLSOC/DPG CAI only: 15.115 @ 93.39 in the 1/4 (link to this slip in the timeslip section).

Any other questions?
 
On the underdrive pulley, don't expect more than ~ 5HP. Yeah, it may be cheaper to manufacture or buy, but I can guarantee you that it will be ALOT more difficult / expensive to install than any CAI. Also, all LSs are borderline on electrical capacity, you better shrink the alternater pulley while you are at it or you can be counting on a few dead batteries, especially in the winter weather while you are sitting in traffic w/ all the heaters running, wipers going, headlights on, stereo thumping, while you wait for some bozo in an SUV to pull themselves out of the ditch they landed in because they don't know how to handle AWD on ice. 2 pullies = double the cost, twice the difficulty / cost to install. 5 iffy hp just isn't worth it IMO.

BTW, I only paid $330 for my DPG CAI, however the newer KKM CAI is improved slightly (fewer bends / curves in the airpath). Those pulleys + install better be less than $110 to beat my CAI from a HP/$ POV.

Also, I did fab a heat shield for my CAI just like someone suggested, from the shock tower / wheel well to the radiator support, between the back of the cone filter and the engine compartment, relied on the hood to close the "box" on top. My proto-shield was made from cardboard, planning on replacing it w/ sheet aluminum soon.
 
Venture_motorsports_LS said:
LLSOC- Ill be more selective on my words from now on.....Id just like to know how much it REALLY costs them to make. Im all about hooking up my fellow LS owners. Thats why i created Venture Motorsports. Cuz too few products are available, or they cost 400 dollars ! ! I have my owndesign being fabricated as we speak. i just want our LS's to get more respect on the street, without working 2 jobs to gain it.
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I know exactly how much they originally cost. I was part of the design and testing of the original one that was done through Phil at DPG Performance and it is a ripoff for $400.00!
 
I'm interested in seeing what the pulley can bring to the table. LLSOC has been working with a company that will introduce a supercharger in February. They specifically made it for a prototype 2002 T-bird and they've had good results. I guess what I'm saying is what kind of performance numbers are we talking about. JohnnyBZ has a point that adding bolt on like a cat-back and CAI adds HP at a minimal cost. Will your butt be able to feel an increase too with the pulley or would it be a combination of all three for maximum performance?

Very interested though!
 
ONEBADMK8 said:
I know exactly how much they originally cost. I was part of the design and testing of the original one that was done through Phil at DPG Performance and it is a ripoff for $400.00!
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Geno, that is a crap statement man. Reason is Phil could mass produce them. Our shop isn't capable of that. It's just a small shop and of course LLSOC has a certain mark up for the club as well.

I know we've discussed this before and Joey will attest. Let's not get into a slapping contest between forums here.
 
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GrayGhost1 said:
I'm interested in seeing what the pulley can bring to the table. LLSOC has been working with a company that will introduce a supercharger in February. They specifically made it for a prototype 2002 T-bird and they've had good results. I guess what I'm saying is what kind of performance numbers are we talking about. JohnnyBZ has a point that adding bolt on like a cat-back and CAI adds HP at a minimal cost. Will your butt be able to feel an increase too with the pulley or would it be a combination of all three for maximum performance?

Very interested though!
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We picked up some good numbers with the pulley on the Marks, CRANK only I would never dare do a 3 piece setup on these cars. There so electrical dependant its unreal! We have done the 3 piece on the Marks with sad alternator woes as the result.
 
the 3g alt used on the mark has a factory underdrive pulley that turns the alt slower than any previous ford alt

you can put a 2g pulley (from any 87-93 ford 302, 3.8, and 351w) on a 3g alt (serp that is) and regain any loss after swapping to an underdrive crank pulley
 
ONEBADMK8 said:
We picked up some good numbers with the pulley on the Marks, CRANK only I would never dare do a 3 piece setup on these cars. There so electrical dependant its unreal! We have done the 3 piece on the Marks with sad alternator woes as the result.
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That's interesting. I agree that they are WAY electrically dependent. Were you replacing altenators quite a bit on the Marks using those 3 piece setups?
 
I'm interested in seeing what the pulley can bring to the table. LLSOC has been working with a company that will introduce a supercharger in February. They specifically made it for a prototype 2002 T-bird and they've had good results.
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manacharger or kenne bell?
 
GrayGhost1 said:
That's interesting. I agree that they are WAY electrically dependent. Were you replacing altenators quite a bit on the Marks using those 3 piece setups?
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I did on the TerminVIIIor about a week after a 3 piece install with 36k. I also have seen this with a buch more too, right after install.
 
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