Well, it depends. We'll probably go to Qualcomm stadium (they have a track in the parking lot) because it's about 30 min from me and 10 from him. It's an eighth mile with crappy traction though. We could possibly go to LACR as it's a quarter with great traction and they have time only days all the time. But, I'm 2 hrs away and it's probably 2.5 or 3 hours from 00ls5spd.
v65spd vs v8
- Thread starter jokken
- Start date
rocket5979 said:A modded 00-02 will take a stock 03+ LS8, especially on the takeoff where the TBW isn't in the way. The 00-02 LS8's will almost always be able to get a better 60' time in the 1/4 mile because they can launch harder than we can, even when we are tuned to minimize TBW lag.
Can I get an explanation on this? What lag are we talking about? I have an '03 and my only problem is tires that just aren't sticky enough to handle the power off the line.
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rocket5979
Guest
Qbrozen said:
The "lag" comes from the thottle by wire (TBW) and the torque control (fancy spark retard function) in the computer. What happens is, even when the traction control is turned off, the torque control still is in affect and combined with the TBW things usually tend to lag of the line.
This is prevalent in all Ford TBW systems, and Lincoln makes them EXTRA spongy because they are in luxo vehicles that are tuned more for smooth acceleration and not burning the tires off.
If your having a problem with traction off the line then you may be one of the lucky ones with all that crap turned off from the factory (tuning glitch). In that case then the TBW almost mimicks a regular throttle cable system. either way, for those of us who did have it programmed into our cars, we can have it removed by tuning it out via the SCT software.
lexmarkz00
Well-Known LVC Member
Seeing those Mustangs made me all nostalgic.
rocket5979 said:
Huh. That's interesting. I've never driven another '03 besides mine, so I have no idea. So, for those with this interference, is it impossible to spin the tires?
All I know is that I can switch off the traction control and make my tires go up in smoke. Hell, if I couldn't, I probably wouldn't have traded my 350Z for it.
2002_LS_V8
Well-Known LVC Member
why the heck would u do that?? got a family (kids) on the way or something?? Z350 is so much nicer IMO... :L
2002_LS_V8 said:
that's exactly what happened. Broke my heart to give it up ... but what can ya do. I could have dealt with the seating issue (just not take the Z with the kid), but it was a money issue, too. The Lincoln was quite a bit cheaper, so I gave up the Z in exchange for the LS and a bunch of cash, which we used to pay some bills and buy nusery furniture, etc.
I'll make sure I guilt the hell out of him later in life.
2002_LS_V8
Well-Known LVC Member
yea kids sure change life... i dont have any yet but i see my friends lifes change very quickly... well eather way the lincoln is a good car :L
:L
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rocket5979
Guest
Qbrozen said:
It is not impossible, but it is somewhat harder. Definately cannot get them to go up in smoke while trying to peel out going straight; though they do usually chirp a little. Now going around a corner is a different thing, but then again a geo could probably spin its tires coming around a corner.
beaups said:
have you tried powerbraking (or torquebraking, depending on yer personal lingo)? Just put it in first, turn off TC, hold the brake, and bring the needle up a bit before letting off the brake and pinning the go pedal. Not much is needed; 1500 rpms should be plenty.
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rocket5979
Guest
Qbrozen said:
Well of course it will spin then! lol. I think Beaups was talking of just flooring it off the line from a stop without powerbraking it, like I was too. You can powerbrake anything to spin its tires off. I hope that wasn't what you originally meant, was it?
rocket5979 said:Well of course it will spin then! lol. I think Beaups was talking of just flooring it off the line from a stop without powerbraking it, like I was too. You can powerbrake anything to spin its tires off. I hope that wasn't what you originally meant, was it?
I have spun them by just mashing it ... but, yes, when I was talking about basically melting the tires, that was through powerbraking. Why not? The original comment I was responding to was that there is some sort of delay or lag with the '03+ off the line. There is no problem if you hold the brake and gas at the same time. And, like I said, it doesn't take much, so its not much of a strain on the driveline at all. Certainly far less than winding up a V6 and dropping the clutch.
I mean, here is the original quote I was responding to:
The 00-02 LS8's will almost always be able to get a better 60' time in the 1/4 mile because they can launch harder than we can, even when we are tuned to minimize TBW lag.
We're talking 60' and 1/4 mile time, so we're talking racing. If you aren't powerbraking when drag racing, then you aren't racing, you're out for a sunday drive.
Oh, and, no, you can't powerbrake anything and spin its tires off. My FWD cars don't take kindly to this AT ALL.
FastNsmoothLS
Active LVC Member
I'm done with spins!
After I took the nos out and reset-ed the computer, the car feels like crap. It's slower, and I hear a howling sound from the tranny as I speed up or slow down to a stop. Also, it wont take the xcal tune anymore. I think I need to send it out again. If anyone has any ideas, I could use some help here. what happened was that I disconnected the battery to remove the nos system, hours afters, when I was done, it seems like the computer erased all the programs. I don't think it's supposed to happen, but it seems like it. It's shifting hard, I'm getting the overheat/power reduced warning, and when accelerating it feels like the car is pulling or like it's out of air. Also at low rpm and revving without provoking an overdrive, it misfires and pulls, but still speeds up. I'm kinda lost here since I never had that happen except for the overheating which turned out to be fixed with a re-flash from lincoln as well as the tranny issue, so I know that's an easy fix, but the performance, that's got my attention. I'm thinking of replacing the spark plugs back to a factory stage since I put colder ones for the nos, and then do a throttle body clean up. Any suggestions? Some of you I really respect. You write with knowledge and I'll admit to it, I have a long way to go other than being a great driver out there.
After I took the nos out and reset-ed the computer, the car feels like crap. It's slower, and I hear a howling sound from the tranny as I speed up or slow down to a stop. Also, it wont take the xcal tune anymore. I think I need to send it out again. If anyone has any ideas, I could use some help here. what happened was that I disconnected the battery to remove the nos system, hours afters, when I was done, it seems like the computer erased all the programs. I don't think it's supposed to happen, but it seems like it. It's shifting hard, I'm getting the overheat/power reduced warning, and when accelerating it feels like the car is pulling or like it's out of air. Also at low rpm and revving without provoking an overdrive, it misfires and pulls, but still speeds up. I'm kinda lost here since I never had that happen except for the overheating which turned out to be fixed with a re-flash from lincoln as well as the tranny issue, so I know that's an easy fix, but the performance, that's got my attention. I'm thinking of replacing the spark plugs back to a factory stage since I put colder ones for the nos, and then do a throttle body clean up. Any suggestions? Some of you I really respect. You write with knowledge and I'll admit to it, I have a long way to go other than being a great driver out there.
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rocket5979
Guest
Qbrozen said:I have spun them by just mashing it ... but, yes, when I was talking about basically melting the tires, that was through powerbraking. Why not? The original comment I was responding to was that there is some sort of delay or lag with the '03+ off the line. There is no problem if you hold the brake and gas at the same time. And, like I said, it doesn't take much, so its not much of a strain on the driveline at all. Certainly far less than winding up a V6 and dropping the clutch.
I mean, here is the original quote I was responding to:
The 00-02 LS8's will almost always be able to get a better 60' time in the 1/4 mile because they can launch harder than we can, even when we are tuned to minimize TBW lag.
We're talking 60' and 1/4 mile time, so we're talking racing. If you aren't powerbraking when drag racing, then you aren't racing, you're out for a sunday drive.
Oh, and, no, you can't powerbrake anything and spin its tires off. My FWD cars don't take kindly to this AT ALL.
There is nothing wrong with powerbraking. I use it when launching (a relative term for the LS
) at the track. I just wasn't aware that was what most of your example was from, instead of pure straight line punch with no foot on the brake. Since we are talking racing we are also talking minimizing wheel spin. On the street while having fun it might be ok to smoke em a little. At the track it really sucks to do so. As long as a 00-02 LS8 has the tires to put the power to the ground then I suspect that they will probably cut a better 60' than a 03+ LS8 (even tuned) due to the TBW and torque control in our new gens.
Heck, the FWD cars powerbrake (smoke the tires) easier than the RWD cars do. It is all due to the weight transferring away from the drive axle, thus lightening the load above the axle and promoting wheel spin much more in a FWD rather than a RWD vehicle. That is why the few 600FWP modded turbo Civics cannot launch unless they are running a VERY serious drag suspension and sticky tires to boot. Its the same reason why most all front wheel drive racers prefer to go from a roll versus a dig.
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rocket5979
Guest
Qbrozen said:
Just clarifying...
I noticed my wording was a little out of whack there. I meant to say that the 00-02 LS should launch better thus obtaining a better 60' time while racing in the 1/4 mile. That is not to say that I am suggesting that the 00-02 LS would actually get a better ET at the end of the 1/4.
I don't think you took it that way Q, but it looked like others possibly could interpret it as that; so I just wanted to clear it up.
i'm still not sure why tbw matters for 60' when we've agreed that any lag can be eliminated with powerbraking .... but it doesn't matter. not a big deal.
i definitely gotta get stickier tires, though. these stock ones suck and they are pretty worn, to boot.
FWD vs RWD is a funny thing sometimes (on stock street cars, anyway). My Volvo and Lincoln can actually run very close 1/4 mile times. But the Volvo is almost impossible to spin the tires on (i've gotten them to briefly chirp, but I had to wind it up with my foot on the brake so high that it would be detrimental to the tranny to do on a regular basis), while the LS has to be launched very specifically to get a good launch without going up in smoke. Yeah, there are alot of other factors at play, too ... i still find it kinda odd, though.
i definitely gotta get stickier tires, though. these stock ones suck and they are pretty worn, to boot.
FWD vs RWD is a funny thing sometimes (on stock street cars, anyway). My Volvo and Lincoln can actually run very close 1/4 mile times. But the Volvo is almost impossible to spin the tires on (i've gotten them to briefly chirp, but I had to wind it up with my foot on the brake so high that it would be detrimental to the tranny to do on a regular basis), while the LS has to be launched very specifically to get a good launch without going up in smoke. Yeah, there are alot of other factors at play, too ... i still find it kinda odd, though.
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rocket5979
Guest
Qbrozen said:
With the TBW lag we started out talking about doing standing burnouts, that was kind of where the lag talk stemmed from. You are right, the lag will be minimized when powerbraking before the launch. But, then we still have to deal with the torque control function of the PCM which pulls timing at certain points within the accelleration curve (mainly off the line and before/during every shift). Though WE prefer to powerbrake for a launch, others choose not to do so. I have even seen people who aren't noobs to the game doing launching from idle.
If I could, I would take the throttlebody and rear tail lights of a 00-02 and put them in the 03+'s to make the better all around car in my eyes.
The Volvo vs LS issue is odd. Like ya said, there are many other variables that play a role too.
It is kind of like if someone happened to beat a modded LS1 Camaro with an LS and then comes here to post about it. Most would call BS right away, without knowing other variables that came into play to let them win.
:Beer