Well everyone, the enebitable has happened.... BLEW the motor.

97stscaddy said:
AFAIK a 4.6 swap has never been done successfully on an LS.
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That depends on your definition of "successfully." A team of engineers from Lincoln did it for the One Lap of America car they built a few years back, but they had to use two PCMs (one to control the engine, one to control everything else), and they never did get everything working. IIRC, it was fine as a track car, but a lot of the things you'd want in a daily driver didn't work.

FWIW, those were the engineers who designed the car and its systems, so I'd say it's a long way from being easy. It's certainly not even on the same continent as "inexpensive"...
 
I wouldn't call that successful. You can drop any engine you want in a track car and get it to run. The way I see it, its getting all the other stuff in the car to work properly that would make it an actual successful swap.
 
4.6 McLaren Prototype

Actually, McLaren did a 4.6-type engine swap into an LS, under contract to Lincoln, in 2001. They used a 5.0 litre CID variant, making about 400 HP. In order to use the production hood, they found it necessary to cast a new design intake manifold. They used magnesium as a casting material. See my friend Ben's books for more information on this McLaren prototype.

Since an electronics package doesn't recognize the hardware to which it's connected, there's no trick to operating a 4.6 with the computer from an LS. By reprogramming with the use of an SCT interface, it'll be easy enough to run a Jag AJ 27 engine in my '02 LS. (See 'Land Speed LS' in the HP area)
KenS from Ben's Place
 
cammerfe said:
Actually, McLaren did a 4.6-type engine swap into an LS, under contract to Lincoln, in 2001. They used a 5.0 litre CID variant, making about 400 HP. In order to use the production hood, they found it necessary to cast a new design intake manifold. They used magnesium as a casting material. See my friend Ben's books for more information on this McLaren prototype.

Since an electronics package doesn't recognize the hardware to which it's connected, there's no trick to operating a 4.6 with the computer from an LS. By reprogramming with the use of an SCT interface, it'll be easy enough to run a Jag AJ 27 engine in my '02 LS. (See 'Land Speed LS' in the HP area)
KenS from Ben's Place
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Ken, I love reading your posts man! You must have a love of special projects far beyond what most of us are used to. The obscure facts and such like you just posted are incredible! I thought I knew a ton about old stangs till talking you.
 
Ford actually put a Cammer into an LS as well.

One of the bigger challenges around a swap will be having the LS' PCM work on a different trannie - I don't believe all the options are available in the tuning software to get that deep for the LS.

Then if you go the other route and use the Mustang PCM - you have a lot of mating issues with the FEM, cluster, ...etc.

Not impossible but certainly time.
 
I have lookied into the swap a bit. there is a place around here that is making or was making what they call LS cobras. havent actually looked into them but I've seen a few rolling around.


I've pretty much concluded that I will be building a 3.9/4.0 possible bore or stroke, but I doubt it. Cubic inches are great but with forced induction and propper tuning, you get the same crazy power without the headache of a swap.
 
Question is how much can our LS's handle?
also i think i heard that ford lincoln can reflash your LS computer to match
up with a different motor...forgot where I heard it from but a friend told
me it's true and as far as tranny maybe a Manual can ditch the tranny
computer problem......
 
Since the current Mustang uses a variant of the LS 5R55N trans, the use of the LS computer to operate it shouldn't be a problem. On the other hand, the use of turbos should make any engine swap un-necessary.
KS
 
Ken - that's providing your using a 2003+ LS - 5R55S. The Gen1 used a 5R55N but the electronics are all ODBII - making swapping in a Gen2 or Mustang PCM (which use CAN) a bigger job. I didn't think the SCT software let you get deep enoungh to do it on a Gen1....
 
cammerfe said:
Since an electronics package doesn't recognize the hardware to which it's connected, there's no trick to operating a 4.6 with the computer from an LS. By reprogramming with the use of an SCT interface, it'll be easy enough to run a Jag AJ 27 engine in my '02 LS. (See 'Land Speed LS' in the HP area)
KenS from Ben's Place
Click to expand...




You are more or less correct except for one item. I have given 4.6 swaps into the LS allot of thought and planning. I call it a "What if I blow the stocker motor?" plan. What I would do is swap a 2v 4.6 with a Mustang 5R55S transmission behind it. Then all sensor mounts will be machined so that the LS cam position sensor and crank position sensors will mount up and engage properly on the trigger wheels. If need be a new trigger wheel may need to be made. That will be determined once both engines are opened up and comparison is made. I have opened up the 4.6's quite a few times but never dug much into the LS engine so the trigger wheel thing will have to be determined at the time of teardown. Since the 4.6 has a different firing order than the 3.9 you will also have to butcher the LS wiring harness so that the proper coils and fuel injectors are matched to the firing order. IIRC this will place 3 injector/coil sets off of their coinciding bank in the tuning. What this means is that closed loop fueling will be off if you just leave this alone. You adjust STFT bank 1 and it will also have an affect on bank 2. To get around this you can force open loop in the PCM and just tune it for idle and part throttle off of the MAFS all the time. This will eliminate any bank to bank closed loop fueling discrepancies. Now fuel mileage will be affect by tuning it this way but if you really get things dialed in well then it should not be a huge difference.

Worst case scenario if you cannot control the 5R55S is swap a 4R70W transmission into the LS and control it standalone. I have already done a swap exactly like this but on another vehicle platform that uses the 5R55S, N, W series transmissions. To do this you would need a custom driveshaft, the standalone controller from a place such as Baumann or PTCS. Your shifter linkage will need to be modified. A little ingenuity will go a long ways here. Then if you really want to be perfect then you can also make a custom detent block and indicator so that the shifter engages in the proper detent when the transmission shifter lever does too. The last item is optional but it looks allot better when you actually take the time to match this up. If you go the 4R70W swap route then the auto transmission functions will need to be eliminated in the tune. This is also something that is doable.

While I have not personally performed this swap I have done some pretty similar ones that ended with great results. There will be hitches and challenges but in the end I am pretty confident that it is feasible while retaining damn near full function of the rest of the vehicle.
 
The Jag engines have allot going for them in that they have the same firing order as the LS does. At first glance it doesn't look like it when you compare just the firing orders. But when you take notice of how Jaguar numbers their cylinders then you will see that they actually have the same firing order as the LS.
 
Quik LS said:
Ken - that's providing your using a 2003+ LS - 5R55S. The Gen1 used a 5R55N but the electronics are all ODBII - making swapping in a Gen2 or Mustang PCM (which use CAN) a bigger job. I didn't think the SCT software let you get deep enoungh to do it on a Gen1....
Click to expand...

beg to differ. I do not believe I have a 5r55n...... I will double check tomorrow and get back to you, but iirc the stock transmission in my 2001 sport is an S not and N. It is possible that one of two things happened. Tranny problem with the previous owner and the shop used an S tranny to replace it....... or I'm just flat out wrong. Either way though I believe this to me a non issue. the 5r55's are all of the same family if you will. The stang when it was originally designed came off the LS. That is one of the parts that carried over. I like ILLS have looked into motor swaps, but like Ken said, turbo and tuning will more than compensate for a few CI's.


I for one still think the 4.6 swap is not only doable, but doable while maintaining what makes these cars an LS. I wouldnt do it for the wieght distribution and the not worth it that comes from force feeding an NA motor. You should know first hand what a little a boost can do for ya
 
cammerfe said:
Actually, McLaren did a 4.6-type engine swap into an LS, under contract to Lincoln, in 2001. They used a 5.0 litre CID variant, making about 400 HP. In order to use the production hood, they found it necessary to cast a new design intake manifold. They used magnesium as a casting material. See my friend Ben's books for more information on this McLaren prototype.

Since an electronics package doesn't recognize the hardware to which it's connected, there's no trick to operating a 4.6 with the computer from an LS. By reprogramming with the use of an SCT interface, it'll be easy enough to run a Jag AJ 27 engine in my '02 LS. (See 'Land Speed LS' in the HP area)
KenS from Ben's Place
Click to expand...

OK then, that sounds good enough to me. Lets see it get done already! :D
 
NOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Wait, I'll take it for 500 shipped.
 
501 :d

^ supposed to be a smiley, but cant get it to display
 
NHLSV8 said:
beg to differ. I do not believe I have a 5r55n...... I will double check tomorrow and get back to you, but iirc the stock transmission in my 2001 sport is an S not and N.
Click to expand...
Nope--the stock slushbox on all 1st Gen LSes was the 5R55N. The 5R55S didn't arrive on the scene until the 2003 MY (when it became the only transmission available in the LS). The 5R55S is a CAN-controlled tranny, so there's no way it was drop-in replacement for the 5R55N in your OBD-II LS.
 
One thing I DON'T know is whether the bell housing bolt pattern is the same for the 4.6 and the AJ engines. This could have a significant effect on the 'do-ability' of an easy installation of the 4.6. While the McLaren prototype used a low profile magnesium casting for an intake manifold, it would be easiest to put a scoop or bubble in the hood.

My own choice, as you'll have guessed, is to stay with the AJ engine and add a pair of turbos along with the spray and the methanol.
KS
 
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