What's going to happen to Israel?

95DevilleNS said:
When the death toll reaches 10,000 troops, I wonder what you'll say then?

When you realize that one more rogue state that was interested in acquiring nuclear weapons to blackmail the west was removed, what will you say?
When Iraq engages in consitutional parlimentary elections this month, what will you say?
When a muslim democracy is established in the heart of the Middle East, what will you say?
When Iraq's oil production hits the world markets in large volumes, what will you say?
When Iraq becomes the most successful Muslim country in the region, likely inspiring other nations to reform in order to immitate their success, what will you say?
And when terrorists have one less rich and anti-Western government to seek finance and safe harbor from, what will you say?

Also when countries like Libyia gave up their weapons program after seeing us remove Hussein, what did you say? Sometimes you have to demonstrate power inorder to project strenght in a region that is used to strong armed leaders. A kind word and a gun will get you a lot farther than just a kind word.

Oh, ok, I only sound exactly like a traitor (see quote beow). That's a relief. Lol.
He said you sound like John Kerry, who, in his opinion, also happens to be a traitor. He didn't say YOU were a traitor... just clarifying.
 
Calabrio said:
When you realize that one more rogue state that was interested in acquiring nuclear weapons to blackmail the west was removed, what will you say?
When Iraq engages in consitutional parlimentary elections this month, what will you say?
When a muslim democracy is established in the heart of the Middle East, what will you say?
When Iraq's oil production hits the world markets in large volumes, what will you say?
When Iraq becomes the most successful Muslim country in the region, likely inspiring other nations to reform in order to immitate their success, what will you say?
And when terrorists have one less rich and anti-Western government to seek finance and safe harbor from, what will you say?

Also when countries like Libyia gave up their weapons program after seeing us remove Hussein, what did you say? Sometimes you have to demonstrate power inorder to project strenght in a region that is used to strong armed leaders. A kind word and a gun will get you a lot farther than just a kind word.

If all comes to pass like you say, I'll say I was wrong. Unfortunately, your side will just shift the blame when their expectations fall short.


Calabrio said:
He said you sound like John Kerry, who, in his opinion, also happens to be a traitor. He didn't say YOU were a traitor... just clarifying.

I know you feel it's your duty to defend him, you two often tag team and answer for each other, I am fine with that. But come on, you're splitting hairs here, his exact words where "You sound EXACTLY like John Kerry, the traitor." I am not putting words into his mouth like he often resorts to accusing me of. I could care less if he calls me a traitor; it demeans him, not I. But to blatantly say you didn't do or say something while the proof that you did is only a thread away is laughable.
 
95DevilleNS said:
If all comes to pass like you say, I'll say I was wrong. Unfortunately, your side will just shift the blame when their expectations fall short.
Since the scenario you state isn't going to happen, how do I prove wrong. But can you provide an example of this having happened in the past?




But come on, you're splitting hairs here, his exact words where "You sound EXACTLY like John Kerry, the traitor."

If he said this:
"You sound EXACTLY like John Kerry, the guy who looks like lurch" would you have though he was commenting on your appearance too? But, this really isn't an important issue to debate. I'm just splitting hairs.
 
Calabrio said:
Since the scenario you state isn't going to happen, how do I prove wrong. But can you provide an example of this having happened in the past?.

Since neither has happened we wait. I provided you with examples in another thread and you said they were irrelevant, so no, I guess I can't give you one that will agree with you.

Calabrio said:
If he said this:
"You sound EXACTLY like John Kerry, the guy who looks like lurch" would you have though he was commenting on your appearance too? But, this really isn't an important issue to debate. I'm just splitting hairs.

Dude, you're hilarious........ So according to Fossten, I sound "EXACTLY like John Kerry, the traitor" but I'm not a traitor, only Kerry is. I have no idea how I can have the same ideologies as a traitor, but not be one. I wonder why Fossten didn't reply to this originally, oh well, no matter.
 
95DevilleNS said:
Since neither has happened we wait. I provided you with examples in another thread and you said they were irrelevant, so no, I guess I can't give you one that will agree with you.
That's because you couldn't provide any.

Point out the problems associated with Democrat policy is not the same as what you as the claim that you have repeatedly made, without any historical refrence to support it.

But I can provide you an example of a war composed of military victories that was completely undermined by the American leftwing, that ultimately resulted in an American loss when we pulled out and then discontinued support under Carter.... Vietnam.
 
Calabrio said:
That's because you couldn't provide any.

Point out the problems associated with Democrat policy is not the same as what you as the claim that you have repeatedly made, without any historical refrence to support it.

But I can provide you an example of a war composed of military victories that was completely undermined by the American leftwing, that ultimately resulted in an American loss when we pulled out and then discontinued support under Carter.... Vietnam.


Oh yes, we were so close to victory in Vietnam. How many more years would it of taken do you think to win? Those Vietcong were hiding, scared to move and in a quandary. Kind of like what Fossten said about Al Qaeda in Iraq, they're scared and unable to fight. Though the American casulties keep climbing, go figure.
 
95DevilleNS said:
Oh yes, we were so close to victory in Vietnam. How many more years would it of taken do you think to win? Those Vietcong were hiding, scared to move and in a quandary. Kind of like what Fossten said about Al Qaeda in Iraq, they're scared and unable to fight. Though the American casulties keep climbing, go figure.

Do you know anything about that war at all? It certainly doesn't sound like it.

The Viet Kong were on the brink of defeat, but they were embolden to hold on a little longer because of the leftist anti-war protesters. They were confident that while America couldn't be defeated militarily, we could be defeated from the inside.

The War would have been over by '68 or '69 had the media not misrepresented the war. And had the liberal congress maintained funding after Kissinger and Nixon did withdraw the U.S., the South Vietnamese wouldn't have been abandoned and left to be slaughtered.
 
95DevilleNS said:
Dude, you're hilarious........ So according to Fossten, I sound "EXACTLY like John Kerry, the traitor" but I'm not a traitor, only Kerry is. I have no idea how I can have the same ideologies as a traitor, but not be one. I wonder why Fossten didn't reply to this originally, oh well, no matter.

Geez, Deville, stop flattering yourself. I can't spend every waking moment watching this thread to see if you've posted so I can respond. Maybe that's how you live your life, pining away for my replies, but I'm pretty busy.

But don't worry, I'm here now, so dry your tears.

What I was doing was comparing your statements to Kerry's. I maintained then and still maintain that NOBODY on this forum has ever said "You're a traitor." Now, your attribution was that quote EXACTLY, WHICH HAS NEVER BEEN SAID ON THIS FORUM (except by you), although it's interesting that you would take it to be an accusation of you personally. Maybe you should examine yourself. Are you a traitor? I have no idea. But if the shoe fits...
95DevilleNS said:
Actually, the 'You must hate America!', 'You're a terrorist sympathizer' and the newest one 'You're a traitor!' that are commonly spewed by the right to shut people up is a 'last ditch desperate attempt'.

A piece of advice: Make sure of your exact quotes before trying to be clever or sarcastic. It's too easy to pick you apart when you don't do your homework.
 
Calabrio said:
Do you know anything about that war at all? It certainly doesn't sound like it.

The Viet Kong were on the brink of defeat, but they were embolden to hold on a little longer because of the leftist anti-war protesters. They were confident that while America couldn't be defeated militarily, we could be defeated from the inside.

The War would have been over by '68 or '69 had the media not misrepresented the war. And had the liberal congress maintained funding after Kissinger and Nixon did withdraw the U.S., the South Vietnamese wouldn't have been abandoned and left to be slaughtered.

Ok 'Old Blood and Guts', I'm glad you have warfare down to a 'T'. I disagree with your insites on what would of happened and I am not the only one.


Funny what you say about Veitnam is the same rhetoric you say about Iraq, it's always the Leftist.
 
95DevilleNS said:
Ok 'Old Blood and Guts', I'm glad you have warfare down to a 'T'. I disagree with your insites on what would of happened and I am not the only one.
It's o.k. I don't think anyone likes you less just because you're wrong.


Funny what you say about Veitnam is the same rhetoric you say about Iraq, it's always the Leftist.
Yeah, isn't it funny. When people with the same attitudes and opinions behave in the same manner, the outcome will often be the same... Why would people trying to do the same thing think the result would be different? Oh-wait...that's called insanity.
 
fossten said:
Geez, Deville, stop flattering yourself. I can't spend every waking moment watching this thread to see if you've posted so I can respond. Maybe that's how you live your life, pining away for my replies, but I'm pretty busy.

But don't worry, I'm here now, so dry your tears.

What I was doing was comparing your statements to Kerry's. I maintained then and still maintain that NOBODY on this forum has ever said "You're a traitor." Now, your attribution was that quote EXACTLY, WHICH HAS NEVER BEEN SAID ON THIS FORUM (except by you), although it's interesting that you would take it to be an accusation of you personally. Maybe you should examine yourself. Are you a traitor? I have no idea. But if the shoe fits...


A piece of advice: Make sure of your exact quotes before trying to be clever or sarcastic. It's too easy to pick you apart when you don't do your homework.

Hmmm... Who is flattering themselves now..........

Once again, since you have a knack for saying I missquote you, here is what you said copy/pasted.

Originally Posted by fossten
"You sound EXACTLY like John Kerry, the traitor. Our troops are just pitiful little boy scouts that need to be protected because they're just innocent little kids! What a crock of bologna. Our troops are killers, and their JOB is to kill people and break things. And they are good at it. You just insult them by saying they need protection."

So you're saying I sound exactly like a traitor (Kerry, according to you), but you're not implying that I am one..... Lol, you two are hilarious.
 
Calabrio said:
It's o.k. I don't think anyone likes you less just because you're wrong.



Yeah, isn't it funny. When people with the same attitudes and opinions behave in the same manner, the outcome will often be the same... Why would people trying to do the same thing think the result would be different? Oh-wait...that's called insanity.

I'll leave all matters of war in your capable hands Desert Fox..........
 
95DevilleNS said:
Hmmm... Who is flattering themselves now..........

Once again, since you have a knack for saying I missquote you, here is what you said copy/pasted.

Originally Posted by fossten
"You sound EXACTLY like John Kerry, the traitor. Our troops are just pitiful little boy scouts that need to be protected because they're just innocent little kids! What a crock of bologna. Our troops are killers, and their JOB is to kill people and break things. And they are good at it. You just insult them by saying they need protection."

So you're saying I sound exactly like a traitor (Kerry, according to you), but you're not implying that I am one..... Lol, you two are hilarious.

You can read any implication you want out of anything you want. The FACT is that neither I nor anyone else ever said "You're a traitor." Which is EXACTLY what you claimed.

I'm done with this.
 
I am getting sick and tired of being right!!!

Reprinted from NewsMax.com

Wednesday, Jan. 11, 2006 12:30 a.m. EST
Report: Israel Accelerates Iran Strike Plan



A preemptive airstrike by Israel against suspected nuclear weapons facilities in Iran could come as early as March, a report in the Glasgow Herald claimed Tuesday.

"The Israeli raids would be carried out by long-range F-15E bombers and cruise missiles against a dozen key sites and are designed to set Tehran's weapons program back by up to two years," the paper said.

"Pilots at the Israeli air force's elite 69 squadron have been briefed on the plan and have conducted rehearsals for their missions."

One of the primary targets would be the enrichment plant at Natanz - where Iranian scientists removed seals on Tuesday that had kept one of the country's largest uranium stockpiles under wraps since 2004.

According to an Iranian defector's account published in the Australian on Wednesday, Tehran has 5,000 centrifuges ready to install at the Natanz facility.

The same defector said Iran has also been building underground centrifuge cascade installation platforms at Natanz which could process enough enriched uranium to produce a nuclear bomb.

Other nuclear sites said to be among Israel's primary targets include a heavy-water production site at Arak, 120 miles southwest of Tehran, and a site near Isfahan in central Iran that produces uranium hexafluoride gas.

Plans for a preemptive strike were accelerated, the Herald said, after Russia agreed last month to sell Tehran advanced SA-15 Gauntlet mobile missile systems with an eye towards foiling an Israeli attack.
The paper quoted an unnamed Israeli source who warned: "We believe Iran will have useable nuclear weapons by 2007 unless something is done to prevent it. If Tehran is allowed to start enrichment of uranium, it will be too late."
 
Will Israel Strike Iran?
The X Factor: Israel's military planners say they know how to forestall Tehran's nuclear schemes. The options—and their cost.
By Kevin Peraino and John Barry
Newsweek

Feb. 13, 2006 issue - As scary as the idea may sound, the Israelis may not be bluffing. Their defense experts display no doubt whatsoever that Israel's Air Force can cripple Iran's nuclear program if necessary. The trick, they say, is to go after the system's weak spots. "You need to identify the bottlenecks," says a senior Israeli military source, asking not to be named for security reasons. "There are not very many. If you take them out, then you really undermine the project." Shlomo Brom, a former Israeli armed forces chief of strategic planning, says the destruction of two or three key facilities would probably suffice. He singles out the Natanz uranium-enrichment complex and the conversion plant at Esfahan as critical.

It wouldn't be as easy as it sounds. Tehran, taking obvious lessons from Israel's successful 1981 bombing of Saddam Hussein's reactor at Osirak, has done its best to shield potential targets like Natanz. "They are dispersed, underground, hardened," says the senior Israeli military source. U.S. analysts say each facility would require multiple hits before serious damage was done. Still, the Israelis—who have an undeclared nuclear arsenal of their own, and refuse international inspections or oversight—insist they have all the firepower they need: more than 100 U.S.-made BLU-109 "bunker buster" earth-penetrating bombs. "I think they could do the job," says the senior Israeli source.

Logistics is a bigger hurdle. Each separate target would require a small fleet of aircraft. Israel's F-15s and F-16s would need advance escorts of "electronic countermeasures" aircraft to jam Iran's air-defense radars, and every one of those planes would need an entourage of fighter aircraft. At short range, Tehran's newly upgraded MiG-29 interceptors are a match for just about anything in the air. "To get there and bomb the facilities, that's the easy part," says Brom. "The difficult part is how to get back. We're not making kamikaze runs."

To hit Osirak in 1981, Israel's bombers flew in low over Saudi Arabia. In a study published late last year by the U.S. Army War College, Brom suggests that a strike against Iran's facilities could arrive by way of the Indian Ocean—roughly twice the operational radius of Israel's newest strike aircraft under optimal flying conditions. But Israel's fleet of specialized planes for in-flight refueling—five aging KC-130H tankers—doesn't have the capacity to get all those aircraft there and back again. The only way to manage it would be with a covert stopover midway—it's anybody's guess where.

The Israelis admit they can only disable the Iranian program, not destroy it. "The real question is what you achieve if the best you can do is to delay the project for a few years," says a senior U.S. administration official, speaking anonymously because it's a sensitive topic. The cost to the region's stability could be devastating. Meanwhile, Israel continues to upgrade its own arsenal, acquiring two new German subs that could launch nuclear-armed cruise missiles for a "second-strike" deterrent. Perhaps the threats are only a way of pushing the West to get tough with Tehran before the arms race gets even more heated. But if so, it's one hell of an act.
© 2006 Newsweek, Inc.
 

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