What's the best ls model for an engine swap?

I

Insanityme

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Hi everyone, I'm a new member to this site. I always wanted an ls since they first came out but never purchased one. The main reason is the factory drivetrain options seemed undesirable. I've owned and performed drivetrain swaps on quite a few mustangs over the years. So many aftermarket parts available i suppose anyone could perform the swaps. I've recently turned away from mustangs and now looking at the lincoln ls once again. With the current price tag being roughly $1000 - $5000 for an ls and drivetrains being roughly $10,000 makes me very interested.

I've done a lot of research on doing a swap (roughly 300 hours) all my research has ended with three questions that have to be answered before anymore research.
First question is, is it even worth doing an engine swap on an ls?
Second is which ls model and generation is best for a swap?
And third, which drivetrain is most recommended?

The transmission of choice would be t56 magnum, options on engine would be 5.0 coyote, 4.6 Dohc, 302, or a gm ls series.

Any ideas or comments would be greatly appreciated. I'm getting rather excited to buy an ls, and have yet to figure out which model is best.
 
If you really did do the research and still want to build this frame, I'll give you some insight.
First question is, is it even worth doing an engine swap on an ls? No, so many better chassis out there. I got my car for $600 with a blown motor so there is that...
Second is which ls model and generation is best for a swap? First gen seems to have a better chance of having the Mustang rear-end put into it. No matter what, the wiring is a nightmare to deal with. Try to get one that is already manual, finding the pedal set-up in the junk yard is hard.
And third, which drivetrain is most recommended? What do you mean? You just said that you didn't want the stock drivetrain. Engine you put in there is your choice. What fits, what excites you, etc.

My bet is that this never happens.

The transmission of choice would be t56 magnum, options on engine would be 5.0 coyote, 4.6 Dohc, 302, or a gm ls series.
 
The engine swap is the easy part. Getting everything to function is not. Getting the Lincoln systems to function may be nearly impossible. You can get a standalone ECU to power the engine, but you'll need an aftermarket gauge cluster. And having OBDII working + passing inspection is probably a distant dream.

If you want to have a powerful, comfortable sedan and you know a guy who will give you inspection stickers (assuming your state requires repeated visits) then you can probably fit it in your budget with you doing the labor. You'll likely lose AdvanceTrac/Traction Control (if equipped), I doubt ABS would work, and the LS-swapped LS' AC only blew hot or cold.
 
Insanityme said:
Hi everyone, I'm a new member to this site. I always wanted an ls since they first came out but never purchased one. The main reason is the factory drivetrain options seemed undesirable. I've owned and performed drivetrain swaps on quite a few mustangs over the years. So many aftermarket parts available i suppose anyone could perform the swaps. I've recently turned away from mustangs and now looking at the lincoln ls once again. With the current price tag being roughly $1000 - $5000 for an ls and drivetrains being roughly $10,000 makes me very interested.

I've done a lot of research on doing a swap (roughly 300 hours) all my research has ended with three questions that have to be answered before anymore research.
First question is, is it even worth doing an engine swap on an ls?
Second is which ls model and generation is best for a swap?
And third, which drivetrain is most recommended?

The transmission of choice would be t56 magnum, options on engine would be 5.0 coyote, 4.6 Dohc, 302, or a gm ls series.

Any ideas or comments would be greatly appreciated. I'm getting rather excited to buy an ls, and have yet to figure out which model is best.
Click to expand...

The basic problem is the LS is more Jaguar and very, very little Ford. You would probably have more success trying to transplant an S-Type R engine in there than any American product. There is also absolutely NO aftermarket support for the LS. More Mustangs are sold in a year then the ENTIRE LS production run. Heck, you can build a Mustang or Camaro from scratch using a catalog!

And then, you should have just bought an S-Type R in the first place.

Like Joe said, wrong car.
 
Thank you so much for your responses. I'm probably the millionth new comer who asked that question or very similar so i appreciate the fact i even got a response.
 
Yes, you are the millionth. You can claim your prize by clicking an ad.

Personally, as long as new comers aren't arrogant about this being the wrong car, I don't mind the question.

My favorite new comer build thread: http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/forum/showthread.php?91493-Ls-500

Edit: let me redefine this as the illogical car, not the wrong car
 
Last edited:
One More Time

First, let's frame the discussion. When I was in high school I knew a guy who put a Merlin engine from a P-51 in a late '20s Ford sedan. It took up the whole interior and he 'drove' it while sitting beside the engine. So anything can be put in anything.

If you're talking about something that can be installed in a weekend, you're pretty well limited to another AJ engine. Some of the exterior details are different from the 3.9 in a Lincoln LS if you source from a Jag or Land Rover or Aston Martin. But the differences are minor and readily solvable by using time-honored hot-rodding techniques.

Some of the sensors MAY be minimally different than the ones that come in a 3.9 but in general terms it's possible to simply swap for the right ones. The Lincoln ECU doesn't know, or care, that the oil filter is on the side of the block on a Jag engine instead of in the front as it is on the LS. And mods done by using an SCT will go far to mate the disparate systems. When you change to the side-mounted oil filter you'll be using the space devoted to the cooling fan hydraulic pump on a Gen 1. Simply change to the electric fan set-ups that've been delineated on this forum many times and "Hey Presto" the problem solves itself. The same sort of 'Can Do' thinking will find your other problems melting away.

It's my belief that all the negativity here comes from a lack of experience in 'hot-rod-thinking'. The problem with using a Mustang 4.6 engine or equivalent, from the Manufacturers standpoint, isn't that it won't fit in the engine compartment but that it can't be loaded from below as was done on the assembly line. But if you use such a 'Mod' motor you'll have to solve the problem of the electrical/electronic inputs. As has been said, if you don't, you'll have to put up with some of the comfort/convenience functions either not working or only working on a rudimentary basis.

The suspension layout is practically perfect. Particularly if you upgrade to such things as Heim-joint connections and double adjustable coil-over shocks. The combination of a turbo installation or a blower and a worthwhile spray system (my own uses methanol as the auxiliary fuel to go with the spray) and there's a K or more of HP available in a streetable AJ package.

Unless you have deep pockets, you'll have to work things out for yourself. The satisfaction'll be worth it. And, very likely, you'll have less money in it than it'll take to buy an inferior alternative.

KS
 
The problem isn't; and never has been; the actual ability to swap an engine. The problem lies in getting all the electronics to play nice. There is a reason the LSX had custom gages and the heat and A/C was either full hot or full cold; no control over temp or fan speed. Same with things like ABS, the SRS system and traction control; none of which worked and triggered fault codes. And forget about power windows and seats. Couple that with Ford's reluctance to share coding and one needs gummint deep pockets to make an engine swap on an LS that needs to be anything other than an "off-road" race car. I know in The People's Republik a vehicle with the "wrong" engine will never be able to be registered for street use.

Success comes with a vehicle that, in the end, is still obsolete and an orphan car with repair parts becoming more scarce by the day.
 
I always wanted an ls ever since they came out. I just couldn't afford one at the time and at some point time got away from me. Wrapped up in other projects, work, family time kinda blows by. Now I'm at a point where I'm doing some changes to my vehicle line up and a spot has opened up for a weekend/hobby car. The biggest argument i see for not doing a swap is that the ac will be too cold and abs wont work. Won't be able to use the power seat functions. My last weekend car was from the mid sixties. So honestly having power steering and a radio with more than one speaker will be a step up lol. I do live in a state where there is no emission testing of any kind, there's not even a dmv. I'm still very interested in doing the swap even it's probably a very bad idea.
 
cammerfe said:
It's my belief that all the negativity here comes from a lack of experience in 'hot-rod-thinking'.
Click to expand...

no, I'm pretty sure that it comes from all the failed attempts including those that got a motor running with out being able to get any of the systems in the car working...




what has one person on here ever got a different engine in an LS with the OEM PCM to work? and as far as I have seen, none of the cars that has had to use a different engine controller have done it with out having to rig stuff up like just to get the heat to barely work.

I know, I know, you always tell us how easy it is and that were always being negative about it, but the fact of the matter is, its just that, almost always a negative outcome...
 
As long as the engine swap doesn't involve tunnel vision of all the 'factory luxury doodads' working, there shouldn't be a problem.

Even for the nay-sayers - there must be some way of making simple circuits like power seats and power windows functional. Sure it's harder with the stock module, but I've gotta think the full AC or full heat can be moderated a bit by cracking a window? lol. Not luxury, but functional
 
of course you can pull everything out of the car and get a painless wiring kit and then rewire the car. but then if you dont want all the luxury stuff that makes a luxury car a luxury car, why not just buy a simple sports car in the first place?
 
I'm interested in putting in a performance drivetrain into an ls. I came here looking for any help i could get to minimize additional research by narrowing down models and drive lines so I asked the question of which ls model would be best for a swap. General consensus is there isn't such an ls model. Best driveline to use in a swap is the stock driveline for that year and model. I'm not here to argue with anyone. It's not even worth my time to try to explain the difference between a dmv and a Secretary of State. I understand how stupid it seems to most here that id want to change the drivetrain. And any attempt would end in failure. I knew id face allot of criticism but hoped id get a little bit of advice in the responses as well. In my initial research i could only find a little bit of info on the few cars that survived a swap. At the time, i couldn't understand why the few people who completed the swap didn't post much info about their swap. I now see exactly why they went quite. Cheers
 
they didnt really go quiet as much as they got tired of all the stuff not working and either sold the car and bought something a little more conducive to making faster or put the original motor back in.


dont get me wrong, if I had a lot of cash to spend, and I was going to be building a streetable race car, I would love to use a LS as the base.
 
Insanityme said:
I'm interested in putting in a performance drivetrain into an ls. I came here looking for any help i could get to minimize additional research by narrowing down models and drive lines so I asked the question of which ls model would be best for a swap. General consensus is there isn't such an ls model. Best driveline to use in a swap is the stock driveline for that year and model. I'm not here to argue with anyone. It's not even worth my time to try to explain the difference between a dmv and a Secretary of State. I understand how stupid it seems to most here that id want to change the drivetrain. And any attempt would end in failure. I knew id face allot of criticism but hoped id get a little bit of advice in the responses as well. In my initial research i could only find a little bit of info on the few cars that survived a swap. At the time, i couldn't understand why the few people who completed the swap didn't post much info about their swap. I now see exactly why they went quite. Cheers
Click to expand...

The problem is modern cars are so computer integrated that nothing works without their input. EPA dictates so much that the only way to meet their standards is through computer control. If you only care about making an LS race car then it doesn't matter what drivetrain you use. ALL LSes, snas drivetrain, are basically the same. There were 500+ improvements for the '03+ models, but the basic architecture is unchanged. Any drivetrain you chose that will fit will work with a stand-alone controller. Even McLaren sold their blown LS with the blower in the trunk as they never got it to work. The Lincoln engineers had mega trouble getting the supercharged 4.6L to work with the electronics in the One Lap of America LS. If they, with access to ALL the LS programming, couldn't get things to play well, how could a Shadetree have any hope? There is a point of diminishing returns. Good money after bad and all.......

Seems the others never returned as they never finished their projects. Quick got a supercharger to work reliably in his LS; but sadly it was wrecked. He sold the basic kit for, IIRC, $2K with other parts needing sourcing. Alex has been working on his turboed LS for well over a year. Check out their two projects for guidance......

The problem has; and will always be, the electronics integration.

Oh.... Michigan DMV... http://www.dmv.org/mi-michigan/
 
1LoudLS said:
no, I'm pretty sure that it comes from all the failed attempts including those that got a motor running with out being able to get any of the systems in the car working...




what has one person on here ever got a different engine in an LS with the OEM PCM to work? and as far as I have seen, none of the cars that has had to use a different engine controller have done it with out having to rig stuff up like just to get the heat to barely work.

I know, I know, you always tell us how easy it is and that were always being negative about it, but the fact of the matter is, its just that, almost always a negative outcome...
Click to expand...

No, it's really that the wrong approach was taken or that the individual(s) involved quit before working out the bugs.

And you miss my point that the swap that makes sense is to simply use one of the larger, more sophisticated versions of the AJ engine.

KS
 
cammerfe said:
No, it's really that the wrong approach was taken or that the individual(s) involved quit before working out the bugs.

And you miss my point that the swap that makes sense is to simply use one of the larger, more sophisticated versions of the AJ engine.

KS
Click to expand...

I guess so but I've only got what we've all seen to judge that by.
 
To go back to the original title question, one of the first gen cars would be best since the 2nd gen cars are set up for 'drive-by-wire'. It's much easier to extend a mechanical throttle cable than to fool with trying to get the electronic version to work with 'foreign' throttle bodies.

KS
 
cammerfe said:
To go back to the original title question, one of the first gen cars would be best since the 2nd gen cars are set up for 'drive-by-wire'. It's much easier to extend a mechanical throttle cable than to fool with trying to get the electronic version to work with 'foreign' throttle bodies.

KS
Click to expand...

Also try to find one with the least amount of options so you have less stuff to try and integrate.
 
LS4me said:
The Lincoln engineers had mega trouble getting the supercharged 4.6L to work with the electronics in the One Lap of America LS. If they, with access to ALL the LS programming, couldn't get things to play well, how could a Shadetree have any hope?
Click to expand...

And THIS I flat out don't understand. If I had been a Lincoln engineer working on that, the car would have worked perfectly. The only possible reasons the Lincoln engineers couldn't make it work could only be:
1. They were told 3 days before the event.
2. They were too lazy to do it correctly.
3. They were incompetent.
4. They just didn't want to make it work.

Insanityme - if you really want to do this, start by contacting SCT, who makes tuners for the LS, to find out exactly what their programmer will allow you to do. If their programmer will let you do to the LS what EFI Live lets me do to my Chevy Silverado, then you can make this work. It's not going to be a weekender in any case. What you will have to do is modify whatever engine you get to run with the original LS electronics. For this, I will also suggest getting a 2000 - 2002 LS for the project car. While there may have been improvements in the 2003+ models, those models also have drive by wire throttle bodies and a variable timing valvetrain which will complicate the tuning.

Alternatively, you can start with a factory repair manual for whatever year model LS you want to get. Then approach this with the idea of using a different PCM to control the engine and transmission. With this approach, you can use the existing engine as it is. What you would do is figure out what inputs the LS computer needs to make things like ABS and traction control work. The new engine would need to be modified to include the specific Lincoln sensors and whatnot needed to keep the Lincoln computer happy. And if the HVAC doesn't work correctly, yank the whole damned thing out and stick in a Vintage Air system. Or, look at an HVAC system for a 2000-2002 Toyota Corolla. The air handler is small, the controls will fit in the LS dash with a little work, and they'll freeze you out of a Corolla even on a hot Oklahoma summer day. Should be able to cool an LS down because the cabin really isn't that much bigger on the LS than the Corolla cabin. The seats really just need switched power (well, just power but I say switched because I'm a fan of shutting power to as many things as possible) because all they are is a regular seat although I can't say for sure the heated/cooled seat function would work. The heated seats might be made to work, if not you can get an aftermarket heated seat kit. The windows would also just need an aftermarket power window kit and that might be the better way to go anyway since Ford's real big on using plastic that is unsuitable for the job on their cars. An aftermarket curved window kit is what you'd want.
 
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