Which city does Iran nuke first?

That's a fascinating list. The violence associated with religion for 10 centuries.
So, let's compare the opposite. In the past century there have been about 100,000,000 people who were killed in the pursuit of communism.

USSR, 20 million deaths; China, 65 million deaths; Vietnam, 1 million deaths; North Korea, 2 million deaths; Cambodia, 2 million deaths; Eastern Europe, 1 million deaths; Latin America, 150,000 deaths; Africa, 1.7 million deaths; Afghanistan, 1.5 million deaths; the international communist movement and communist parties not in power, about 10,000 deaths.

Communism compiled a lengthy enemies list, which included political parties, clergy, intellectuals, shopkeepers, many ethnic groups, and other “socially dangerous elements.” Enemies were starved and worked to death; executed with bullets, shovels, and hammers; devoured by dogs; lit on fire; and made to kill one another for their capturers’ amusement.

More than bodies endured torture. Language was tortured: concentration camps became “re-education” camps. Minds were tortured: executions often followed “confessions” of guilt. The list of crimes punishable by death or imprisonment included criticizing the regime, owning a gun or radio transmitter, stealing a few ears of corn from the collective, and “taking part in commerce.”

Amazon.com: The Black Book of Communism: Crimes, Terror, Repression: Stéphane Courtois, Nicolas Werth, Jean-Louis Panné, Andrzej Paczkowski, Karel Bartosek, Jean-Louis Margolin, Mark Kramer, Jonathan Murphy, Stephane Courtois, Jean-Louis Panne: Books
 
Only a moron or a propagandist says Hitler was a Christian. He wasn't. Of course, hrmwrm, the atheist, doesn't know what Christianity is. I draw a distinction between 'Christianity,' which is a very personal relationship with Christ, and 'organized religion.' Hrmwrm butted into the conversation and puked up a straw man argument. You, Kevin, specifically mentioned CHRISTIANITY as responsible for more deaths etc. etc. I offered counter evidence. You still haven't substantiated your claim. 'What he said' won't cut it unless you're ignorant or a coward.

But we're already discussing Christianity in another thread. Frankly, hrmwrm is not qualified to discuss it.

Do some research before you spew.

By the way, did you know Hitler was into the occult?
 
Rush is a big, fat, drug addicted blow hard bag of sh*t. He may be right about how long the eco-recovery will take. Of couse, the first thing we should do is string up all the "CEO's", Madoff's, and other "golden parachute" :q:q:q:q:q:q:qs and apply thier assets to the national defecit.
Biblical prophecy is also a bag of sh*t. All religion is superstitious sleight of hand so some jerk can try to control the behavior of his fellow man by coming up with bullcrap explanations of things man can't explain on his own.
Keep religion out of politics, government, schools and science and the world will be a much better place.
NOBODY has the right to force his superstitions on anybody else. If people kept their relationship with their "god" to themselves, we'd all be better off.
More war, death, and misery has been caused by religion than any other reason- be it islam, christianity, or flying spaghetti monsters.

Apparently, Kevin O'Connell is a hateful "bag 'o' sh*t" as well. Not to mention an ignorant fool who would rather humor his own emotions then be reasonable.

Your post is made up of nothing more then hate, anger and speculation. There is nothing of substance in there. No rational argument at all. How old are you? 12? 15? Your apparent level of intellectual maturity in your post would put you at about that level.

If you have a bone to pick with religion, do it somewhere else. Because your irrational hate is ruining the debate in this thread. Or are you incapable of tolerating any religious based view?
 
well foss, you can't seperate islam from the god death machine. the mono-theistic god ideal is responsible for more death and blood than any other ruling principle within written history.

and where in prophecy is the word russia?

and no san francisco in the poll? muslims and christians would be happy about that one.

If you have a bone to pick with religion (and specifically, christianity) could you please do it somewhere else. You only really pop your head up in this forum if someone mentions religion and then change the whole thread into an attempt at smearing religion that is pointless because you are trying to argue against someone of very strong faith, and you are too obtuse and have too much hate toward religion to concede anything. All it does is ruin the debate currently taking place.

We don't need your hateful "wall 'o' text" posts that are 99% cut 'n' past and are impossible to respond to here. It is nothing more then a decietful way to get your point to go unchallenged in any substantive way. It is inherently rude, dishonest and dissuedes any debate. You know this as you have been heavily excoriated for it in previous threads.

While secular arguments tend to be stronger in political debates, someone should not be singled out and attacked to the point of ruining the thread for occasionally appealing to faith as a justification for their view. If faith plays any part in their views, then it is only honest to mention it in explaining their views.

Please take your irrational hatred elsewhere and learn to be a little tolerant of people of faith once and a while. If you could tolerate religion, you could add a lot to the forum. I have seen it happen here. If you can't get past your intolerance and hatred, you only drag down this forum.
 
where in prophecy is the word russia?
You're so smart, hrmwrm, you figure it out. No hints from me.

Back on topic:

A Fatal Trajectory
Our nation’s course leads to a fate that would fully justify despair.

By Thomas Sowell

An increasing number of recent letters and e-mails from readers strike a note, not only of unhappiness with the way things are going in our society, but of despair.

Those of us who are pessimists are only a step away from despair ourselves, so we may not be the ones to offer the best antidote to the view that America has seen its best days and is degenerating toward what may well be its worst. Yet what hope remains is no less precious nor any less worthy of being preserved.

First of all, the day-to-day life of most Americans in these times is nowhere near as dire as that of the band of cold, ragged, and hungry men who gathered around George Washington in the winter at Valley Forge, to which they had been driven by defeat after defeat.

Only the most reckless gambler would have bet on them to win. Only an optimist would have expected them to survive.

Against the background of those and other desperate times that this country has been through, we cannot whine today because the stocks in our pension plans have gone down or the inflated value that our houses had just a few years ago has now evaporated.

In another sense, however, looming ahead of us — and our children and their children — are dangers that can utterly destroy American society. Worse yet, there are moral corrosions within ourselves that weaken our ability to face the challenges ahead.

One of the many symptoms of this decay from within is that we are preoccupied with the pay of corporate executives while the leading terrorist-sponsoring nation on earth is moving steadily toward creating nuclear bombs.

Does anyone imagine that we will care what anyone’s paycheck is when we see an American city in radioactive ruins?

Yet the only serious obstacle to that happening is that the Israelis may disregard the lofty blather coming out of the White House and destroy Iran’s nuclear facilities before the Iranian fanatics can destroy Israel.

If by some miracle we manage to avoid the fatal dangers of a nuclear Iran, there will no doubt be others, including a nuclear North Korea.

Although, in some sense, the United States of America is still the strongest nation on earth militarily, that means absolutely nothing if our enemies are willing to die and we are not.

It took only two nuclear bombs to get Japan to surrender — and the Japanese of that era were far tougher than most Americans today. Just one bomb — dropped on New York, Chicago, or Los Angeles — might be enough to get us to surrender.

If we are still made of sterner stuff than it looks like, then it might take two or maybe even three or four nuclear bombs, but we will surrender.

It doesn’t matter if we retaliate and kill millions of innocent Iranian civilians — at least it will not matter to the fanatics in charge of Iran or the fanatics in charge of the international terrorist organizations that Iran supplies.

Ultimately, it all comes down to who is willing to die and who is not.

How did we get to this point? It was no single thing.

The dumbing down of our education, the undermining of moral values with the fad of “non-judgmental” affectations, the denigration of our nation through poisonous propaganda from the movies to the universities. The list goes on and on.

The trajectory of our course leads to a fate that would fully justify despair. The only saving grace is that even the trajectory of a bullet can be changed by the wind.

We have been saved by miraculous good fortune before in our history. The overwhelming military and naval expedition that Britain sent to New York to annihilate George Washington’s army was totally immobilized by a vast impenetrable fog that allowed the Americans to escape. That is how they ended up in Valley Forge.

In the World War II naval battle of Midway, if things had not happened just the way they did, at just the time they did, the American naval force would not only have lost, but could have been wiped out by the far larger Japanese fleet.

Over the years, we have had our share of miraculous deliverances. But that our fate today depends on yet another miracle is what can turn pessimism to despair.
 
If you have a bone to pick with religion (and specifically, christianity) could you please do it somewhere else. You only really pop your head up in this forum if someone mentions religion and then change the whole thread into an attempt at smearing religion that is pointless because you are trying to argue against someone of very strong faith, and you are too obtuse and have too much hate toward religion to concede anything. All it does is ruin the debate currently taking place.

We don't need your hateful "wall 'o' text" posts that are 99% cut 'n' past and are impossible to respond to here. It is nothing more then a decietful way to get your point to go unchallenged in any substantive way. It is inherently rude, dishonest and dissuedes any debate. You know this as you have been heavily excoriated for it in previous threads.

While secular arguments tend to be stronger in political debates, someone should not be singled out and attacked to the point of ruining the thread for occasionally appealing to faith as a justification for their view. If faith plays any part in their views, then it is only honest to mention it in explaining their views.

Please take your irrational hatred elsewhere and learn to be a little tolerant of people of faith once and a while. If you could tolerate religion, you could add a lot to the forum. I have seen it happen here. If you can't get past your intolerance and hatred, you only drag down this forum.

well, another diatribe and attempt to undermine me. i was merely answering a question posed by fossten.

"Please cite specific examples where Christianity has caused war, death, and misery anywhere near the levels of godlessness and Islam"



religious referals shouldn't be brought up if you're not willing to back up your inference to them. biblical prophecy has been used to claim the end of the world many times already. it was prophecy that brought about the inception of jesus. christianity was a practice even before jesus. christianity was a faith in the belief of a messiah who would come and deliver it's people from their oppressors.(at the time rome).

and revelations is so vague that any occurrence could be seen as prophecy from past. the reason there is no mention of the u.s. is because the world is much bigger than they ever knew. (the ideals within the bible are still within a smaller flatworld ideal). the biggest problem i have with prophecy is self fulfilling prophecy. instead of stocking up at home, fossten should be heading for megiddo.
 
1. I wasn't asking you, since you didn't make the original claim. You butted in.

2. You didn't answer the question. You equivocated religion with Christianity.
 
well, another diatribe and attempt to undermine me.

No. I am accurately pointing out that you have an axe to grind here. and, as usual, change the focus of the debate to Christianity instead of the subject being discussed. It is not "an attempt to undermine you". It is simply putting your actions in perspective given your history on this forum and asking you to no come in and change the focus of the debate. If anything is undermining you, it is your own actions and history on this forum.

religious referals shouldn't be brought up if you're not willing to back up your inference to them.

Why?

Why do religious referrals need to be singled out? You don't make that distinction on any other type of reference. References to evil corporations, etc, don't need to be singled out according to you. So why religion?

And make no mistake, that is what you are doing here; singling out religion.

If religion inform's someone's opinion, then it should be part of the debate and it shouldn't be unnecessarily singled out.

You have a history of doing just that; uncessarily singling out religion and changing the focus of the debate to your smears against religion.

and revelations is so vague that any occurrence could be seen as prophecy from past. the reason there is no mention of the u.s. is because the world is much bigger than they ever knew.

You really have no idea what fossten is talking about, do you. The prophecy he is talking about is rather specific. It doesn't give specific names, but it describes something that can only be Russia. And in this instance, the absence of another great power in the prophecy (which would be the US) is very conspicuous.

So you are arguing out of ignorance here as well. But you have that axe to grind...:rolleyes:
 
sorry, but i haven't singled out christianity. i fully included many religious backgrounds. fossten singled it out first.

i re-iterate. fossten posed a question. it is a forum for members. a question was posed that i answered. if it's not open for discussion, don't ask the questions.




"You really have no idea what fossten is talking about, do you. The prophecy he is talking about is rather specific. It doesn't give specific names, but it describes something that can only be Russia. And in this instance, the absence of another great power in the prophecy (which would be the US) is very conspicuous"

i am well aware of prophecy and the vague language of it. any descriptions of something in the future from the distant past is only in the mind of who is trying to interpret it.



Daniel 11:40
And at the end of time the king of the South will collide with him, and the king of the North will storm against him with chariots, with horsemen, and with many ships; and he will enter countries, overflow them, and pass through.



this reference? still feel smug?
 
That's just false.

I was answering an accusation posed by SOMEBODY ELSE, and you BUTTED IN.

Period.
 
similar to how i was responding to you when shag butted in. i've made my point. carry on.
 
wrong? hardly. you don't want anyone to answer, don't post.
 

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