Why did it have to be...Guns?

fossten

Dedicated LVC Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2005
Messages
12,460
Reaction score
6
Location
Louisville
Why Did it Have to be ... Guns?

by L. Neil Smith
lneil@lneilsmith.org

Over the past 30 years, I've been paid to write almost two million words, every one of which, sooner or later, came back to the issue of guns and gun-ownership. Naturally, I've thought about the issue a lot, and it has always determined the way I vote.

People accuse me of being a single-issue writer, a single- issue thinker, and a single- issue voter, but it isn't true. What I've chosen, in a world where there's never enough time and energy, is to focus on the one political issue which most clearly and unmistakably demonstrates what any politician -- or political philosophy -- is made of, right down to the creamy liquid center.

Make no mistake: all politicians -- even those ostensibly on the side of guns and gun ownership -- hate the issue and anyone, like me, who insists on bringing it up. They hate it because it's an X-ray machine. It's a Vulcan mind-meld. It's the ultimate test to which any politician -- or political philosophy -- can be put.

If a politician isn't perfectly comfortable with the idea of his average constituent, any man, woman, or responsible child, walking into a hardware store and paying cash -- for any rifle, shotgun, handgun, machinegun, anything -- without producing ID or signing one scrap of paper, he isn't your friend no matter what he tells you.

If he isn't genuinely enthusiastic about his average constituent stuffing that weapon into a purse or pocket or tucking it under a coat and walking home without asking anybody's permission, he's a four-flusher, no matter what he claims.

What his attitude -- toward your ownership and use of weapons -- conveys is his real attitude about you. And if he doesn't trust you, then why in the name of John Moses Browning should you trust him?

If he doesn't want you to have the means of defending your life, do you want him in a position to control it?

If he makes excuses about obeying a law he's sworn to uphold and defend -- the highest law of the land, the Bill of Rights -- do you want to entrust him with anything?

If he ignores you, sneers at you, complains about you, or defames you, if he calls you names only he thinks are evil -- like "Constitutionalist" -- when you insist that he account for himself, hasn't he betrayed his oath, isn't he unfit to hold office, and doesn't he really belong in jail?

Sure, these are all leading questions. They're the questions that led me to the issue of guns and gun ownership as the clearest and most unmistakable demonstration of what any given politician -- or political philosophy -- is really made of.

He may lecture you about the dangerous weirdos out there who shouldn't have a gun -- but what does that have to do with you? Why in the name of John Moses Browning should you be made to suffer for the misdeeds of others? Didn't you lay aside the infantile notion of group punishment when you left public school -- or the military? Isn't it an essentially European notion, anyway -- Prussian, maybe -- and certainly not what America was supposed to be all about?

And if there are dangerous weirdos out there, does it make sense to deprive you of the means of protecting yourself from them? Forget about those other people, those dangerous weirdos, this is about you, and it has been, all along.

Try it yourself: if a politician won't trust you, why should you trust him? If he's a man -- and you're not -- what does his lack of trust tell you about his real attitude toward women? If "he" happens to be a woman, what makes her so perverse that she's eager to render her fellow women helpless on the mean and seedy streets her policies helped create? Should you believe her when she says she wants to help you by imposing some infantile group health care program on you at the point of the kind of gun she doesn't want you to have?

On the other hand -- or the other party -- should you believe anything politicians say who claim they stand for freedom, but drag their feet and make excuses about repealing limits on your right to own and carry weapons? What does this tell you about their real motives for ignoring voters and ramming through one infantile group trade agreement after another with other countries?

Makes voting simpler, doesn't it? You don't have to study every issue -- health care, international trade -- all you have to do is use this X-ray machine, this Vulcan mind-meld, to get beyond their empty words and find out how politicians really feel. About you. And that, of course, is why they hate it.

And that's why I'm accused of being a single-issue writer, thinker, and voter.

But it isn't true, is it?
 
So does this mean you're in favor of gangbangers, crack dealers, pscycotics, rapists, bank robbers, burglers and other violent felons being able to legally buy hand guns, military assault rifles, hollow point cop killer bullets and other ordinance without providing ID no questions asked?
How about suspected terrorists?

That seems to be what you're inferring here.
I suppose you'de like to walk around with an AK-47 slung over your shoulder to feel free.
Please enlighten me.
 
So does this mean you're in favor of gangbangers, crack dealers, pscycotics, rapists, bank robbers, burglers and other violent felons being able to legally buy hand guns, military assault rifles, hollow point cop killer bullets and other ordinance without providing ID no questions asked?
How about suspected terrorists?

That seems to be what you're inferring here.
I suppose you'de like to walk around with an AK-47 slung over your shoulder to feel free.
Please enlighten me.
This rant is so absurd and so emotionally based and so knee-jerk, it's almost not worth answering. But I will humor you. Not that you're interested in facts, though, right?

It is interesting that you immediately jump to an irrational, extreme statement that is actually off topic from the article. What you have done is a non sequitur. There is nothing in the article that even remotely represents what you have accused me of. Also the fact that I did not write the article apparently escapes your notice.

Your rant is full of misrepresentations and anti-gunner talking points.

The author (I did not write the article, by the way) infers nothing remotely resembling your accusation. Newsflash for you - criminals already have guns, and they don't have to (and will not) resort to legal means in order to get them. Gun laws will not stop one single criminal from obtaining a gun. Gun laws only prevent law abiding citizens from getting guns to protect themselves.

"Cop Killler bullets" is an inflammatory and inaccurate term, much like so-called "assault rifles," and generally refers to any bullet that is rated to pass through certain levels of Kevlar armor. Are you aware that this so-called controversy is a myth?

Are you aware that all but two states in the US have some form of conceal carry law?

Are you aware that wherever conceal carry laws have been enacted, crime has declined?

Are you aware that there are currently TWENTY THOUSAND gun control laws on the books in the US today? How could we possibly have any crime at all?

Are you aware that gun control laws do not, in fact, prevent crime?

Are you aware that Washington, DC has had a gun ban in place for 30 years and has one of the highest gun crime rates in the nation? How can this be if gun laws work so well?

If you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns.

I don't carry an AK-47 over my shoulder, nor would I want to. It fits better in the trunk of my car. I carry a Glock in a concealed holster.

Oh, and by the way, I own an AK-74, not an AK-47. Not that you'd know the difference.

I guess you'd rather trust legislators like Carolyn McCarthy, who routinely attempts to pass House bills banning certain types of guns, and yet was caught redfaced on national TV admitting that she did not know what a barrel shroud was. Why does an ignoramus like her get to decide for me what weapon I get to protect myself with?

Are there any more myths that you would like me to dispel? I can do this all day.
 
Yup. In a society where firearms are illegal, only the criminals are armed. This is such a basic point it shouldn't be seriously debated. Those criminals, e.g., crack dealer, gangbanger, etc., are going to find away to arm themselves, whether or not it's legal. Alot of felons are sent BACK to prison because of firearms possesion charges, (itself, a felony charge)so the current law works fairly well. Strike one, strike 2...
 
Last edited by a moderator:
The author of the above article wants everyone to be able to buy a gun no questions asked it would seem, criminal or not.
Since there are probably over 100 million handguns in the US i can see how it would be easy to buy one on the black market, just like illegal drugs.
Gun laws can't work if there's so many guns out there.
It's futile.
I'm from Canada originally and didn't grow up in a gun loving culture.
I don't even consider hunting to be an honorable "sport" as it's killing for pleasure.
Every few months I read about children shooting each other accidentally
or bringing a loaded gun to school.
I suppose this is a sad but acceptable side effect of so many guns and careless owners.
To ad some humor to this post I tried to find a pic of a woman fel lating a handgun but wasn't successful.
I suppose an AK 74 was first produced in 1974 as an update to the 1947 AK 47.
Why do you carry a concealed glock pistol fossten?
Have you ever used it to defend yourself?
 
The author of the above article wants everyone to be able to buy a gun no questions asked it would seem, criminal or not.

Incorrect about the criminals. Again taking things to extremes. You're adding words that he did not say. He doesn't even come close to implying that that is what he's talking about.

What part of "Shall not be infringed" do you not understand?

I don't even consider hunting to be an honorable "sport" as it's killing for pleasure.
This is a stereotype, and you've bought into it. Many hunters hunt for food. Nevertheless, you're entitled to your opinion. What about those who hunt with bows and arrows for sport?

Every few months I read about children shooting each other accidentally
or bringing a loaded gun to school.
I suppose this is a sad but acceptable side effect of so many guns and careless owners.
Regardless of how sad it is, reacting in an emotional way and punishing law abiding citizens for the sins of others is not the answer.
To ad some humor to this post I tried to find a pic of a woman fel lating a handgun but wasn't successful.
How very classy. You really add to your credibility there.:rolleyes:
I suppose an AK 74 was first produced in 1974 as an update to the 1947 AK 47.
That's not the main difference. Didn't even bother to look it up, did you? I suppose you didn't bother to click the links I posted either. Don't come in here bashing gun rights advocates while demonstrating your laziness and unwillingness to educate yourself. You've just proven that you're closed minded on the issue.
Why do you carry a concealed glock pistol fossten?
Because I can.
Have you ever used it to defend yourself?
If you weren't being hostile toward gun owners, I would be tempted to answer you. I will just respectfully say that it's none of your business.
 
The 74 did go into production in 1974 actually. Designed by Mikhail Kalashnikov. As for a updated version of the 47, it may look like and share 50% of the same parts but it had a 5.45 cartridge and higher rate of fire. Most likely designed because of the M-16 a1 or a2.

I think the point the author was trying to make is to see where people would stand if asked the question of gun control and how to read the answer they gave.

Fossten probably carries for the same reason me and most people do. Its are right and they are trying to take it from us.

I work alot in and around the detroit area going to work around 4 am. I have flashed mine at a couple of guys approaching my car at a stop light. I don't know what they wanted but they turned around and walked away.

I don't carry my gun on me at all when I'm not in the car. Fossten likes Glocks which are very reliable.

22% of canadian households have guns. Which would mean 1 out of 4 people you grew up with had a firearm.

Honorable hunting? I never heard it called that before. I've had many great hunts without shooting anything. But is is a sport where anyone except convicted felons can participate in. I guess it's more honerable to buy some pork or cow that was .22 behind the ear from the store and paying some huge mark up for all the middle man action. Yes I go get a couple of pigs myself each year, and a cow, and buy half a elk. I like knowing that my animal is fresh and paying no markup.

Where's the regulation on dumb people? More and more of those runnin around everyday. No matter what you do or tell them their still stupid at the end of the day.

Annually, hunters in the U.S. contribute $1.5 billion in license sales alone, and $30.5 billion to the national economy through the activity of hunting.
Might as well take away my fishing poles also cause I like to murder little fishes.

You can't take away all guns, or give them to everyone. Their has to be a middle gound.

Piss on it I'm gonna tell you what I really think. Womens rights is where it all went wrong. We are one of the only countries where men chase and drool over women. They went into the job market as equals taking a fair share on the mans jobs. Becoming equally important in the voting game. They hate this they hate that, they think they Know how :q:q:q:q should be run and as soon as they say something men are bending over backwards trying to fix it. As soon as man could write their was hunting and war. You wanna eat meat, something has to be killed, you wanna not eat meat? something has to be killed because we took away their habitat and people don't want nature runnin around their yard.

My prediction for the future is guns will be outlawed, men will be over run by woman, women will hold all corporate jobs, men will be turned into slaves doing all manual labor. The world will despise us and nuke us. The End.
 
fossten,
perhaps my words were a bit on the fighting side however I don't see anywhere in Niel Smith's article that he doesn't want criminals to own guns.
If I missed it perhaps you can show me.
He doesn't even acknowledge that there are a lot of bad people out there.

"And if there are dangerous weirdos out there, does it make sense to deprive you of the means of protecting yourself from them?"

He's ok with "responsible" children buying guns (an oxymoron)

"If a politician isn't perfectly comfortable with the idea of his average constituent, any man, woman, or responsible child, walking into a hardware store and paying cash -- for any rifle, shotgun, handgun, machinegun, anything -- without producing ID or signing one scrap of paper, he isn't your friend no matter what he tells you."

I think Niel Smith is quite over the top here.

Yes we all love animals, they're delicious!
Sure animals are killed and we eat them but killing for pleasure with a rifle
is not the same thing as frying up some pork chops.
Hunting and fishing for food is ok as long as the catch is eaten at least by someone and not maggots.
Hunting for sport is just cruelty.

I liked the scene in "Powder" where the kid puts his hand on the dieing animal and the chest of the hunter who shot it and transfers the agonizing gunshot pain to the hunter's chest.

I'm not disputing your contentions so I didn't yet click on your links.

I know there's a video out there somewhere of topless women firing machine guns. It's part of the gun culture.

David E. Petzal - The Gun Nut[SIZE=-1]Topless babes with machine guns? Hours of exploding varmits? ... of those topless babes had a hot cartridge case land in her "bosom" while firing full auto! ...
fieldandstream.blogs.com/gunnut/2007/12/gun-videos.html - 51k - Cached - Similar pages[/SIZE]

The Canadian guns in households are all long guns but somehow gun crime is really low in Canada.

I don't own any guns and don't want to and I don't begrudge you owning 1 or 10 but we need to have more training for handling and storage of firearms to prevent needless tragedies.
If you rent a Ryder truck they'll run your name through the FBI computer, so I don't see someone without a criminal record having a problem with a quick background check.
 
My prediction for the future is guns will be outlawed, men will be over run by woman, women will hold all corporate jobs, men will be turned into slaves doing all manual labor. The world will despise us and nuke us. The End.
:bowrofl: You killed me with this!

By the way, I agree with everything else you said.

04SCTLS, you cannot sit there and claim that the author of the article wants criminals to own guns and then say the proof is that he doesn't say he doesn't. That's absurd. It's your job to prove that he does, not mine to prove he doesn't. You need to swallow the bitter pill that you invented something out of nothing regarding his opinions. It's also absurd that he or I or anyone else besides criminals themselves would want criminals to own guns. You are simply departing from common sense here, trying to foul a good article and a good post with distraction tactics.
 
"If a politician isn't perfectly comfortable with the idea of his average constituent, any man, woman, or responsible child, walking into a hardware store and paying cash -- for any rifle, shotgun, handgun, machinegun, anything -- without producing ID or signing one scrap of paper, he isn't your friend no matter what he tells you."

This statement proves he does because without any kind of check how is a gun dealer supposed to know if someone is a criminal or not.

I don't think this is absurd.
You're the one reading the author's mind here.

Oh I suppose you could say a felon is not a constituent since he can't vote
but again how would a gun dealer know that.
 
So does this mean you're in favor of gangbangers, crack dealers, pscycotics, rapists, bank robbers, burglers and other violent felons being able to legally buy hand guns, military assault rifles, hollow point cop killer bullets and other ordinance without providing ID no questions asked?
How about suspected terrorists?

Criminals shouldn't be able to legally get guns.
No one is saying they should. But they do get guns. And no gun control law has EVER been able to fix that. Gun controls laws inherently only hurt and hinder law abiding citizens.

You can't always depend on the government to protect you from evil.
 
"If a politician isn't perfectly comfortable with the idea of his average constituent, any man, woman, or responsible child, walking into a hardware store and paying cash -- for any rifle, shotgun, handgun, machinegun, anything -- without producing ID or signing one scrap of paper, he isn't your friend no matter what he tells you."

This statement proves he does because without any kind of check how is a gun dealer supposed to know if someone is a criminal or not.

I don't think this is absurd.
You're the one reading the author's mind here.

Oh I suppose you could say a felon is not a constituent since he can't vote
but again how would a gun dealer know that.

His "average constituant" isn't a criminal. Convicted felons can't vote. How the gun dealer knows that isn't of relevance to the statement you just quoted. That statement is in regards to the comfort (or lack thereof) of a politicial being comfortable with his constituant being able to buy a gun. It is that simple.

You are obfuscating the issue here.
 
If you rent a Ryder truck they'll run your name through the FBI computer, so I don't see someone without a criminal record having a problem with a quick background check.

the key word is "quick" background check. There is no such thing. All it does is increase the window of time where you are vulnerable to a gun crime without a gun.
 
Ok I'll stop splitting hairs here guys.

When one crosses the border and they scan a green card or passport DHS gets results within 30 seconds.
I think that's pretty quick.
 
Ok I'll stop splitting hairs here guys.

When one crosses the border and they scan a green card or passport DHS gets results within 30 seconds.
I think that's pretty quick.

Then what is the purpose of the 30 day waiting period?
 
I think the difference is that greencard holders are already background checked, photographed by DHC and fingerprinted (like a national govt ID card) and in the data base.Passport holders though are not printed and supply their own photos and have been checked out by the govt to verify that they are american citizens.
Regular Joe's who don't have a passport just a state ID probably take longer to verify.
There is an option to get a credit card sized national photo ID instead of a passport but I doubt it includes fingerprints (yet)
 
I think the difference is that greencard holders are already background checked, photographed by DHC and fingerprinted (like a national govt ID card) and in the data base.Passport holders though are not printed and supply their own photos and have been checked out by the govt to verify that they are american citizens.
Regular Joe's who don't have a passport just a state ID probably take longer to verify.
There is an option to get a credit card sized national photo ID instead of a passport but I doubt it includes fingerprints (yet)

...how does that explain the waiting period?
 
Criminals shouldn't be able to legally get guns.
No one is saying they should. But they do get guns. And no gun control law has EVER been able to fix that. Gun controls laws inherently only hurt and hinder law abiding citizens.

You can't always depend on the government to protect you from evil.


WOW we actually agree on something!! Cool.:D
 
I don't know why there's a 30 day waiting period.
Criminal record checks are almost instantaneous these days.
 
The real NEWEST problem with gun control is OTHER people with clean records predominently Women (who can get a gun in most States 25% easier then a Man) are getting them for these SCUMBAG criminals. In Philly they are attacking this bigtime and making new laws to hold the person responsible that actually got the Gun for that person with the same charge as the Criminal.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I don't know why there's a 30 day waiting period.
Criminal record checks are almost instantaneous these days.

The only justification I have heard for the waiting periods is to perform a background check. If those are instantanious, then there is no justification for those waiting periods.

The waiting periods were probably put in place when background checks did take time and are still on the books.
 
The real NEWEST problem with gun control is OTHER people with clean records predominently Woman (who can get a gun in most Stated 25% easier then a Man) are getting them for these SCUMBAG criminals.

Well, that I am against! Women having guns?! anything that bleeds for five days and doesn't die, and has extreme mood swings shouldn't be in control of a gun! :D


In Philly they are attacking this bigtime and making new laws to hold the person responsible that actually got the Gun for that person with the same charge as the Criminal.

Criminals will always find a way to get guns. Gun control laws just hurt the law abiding citizens.

I really don't like gun registration either.
 
Where would one search for the "thousands" of gun control laws already on the books?
This subject peaks my interest, and I would really like to get a look at the actual laws.
Bob.
 

Members online

No members online now.
Back
Top