"You touch my junk and I'll have you arrested"

[fossten]

Wow im getting attacked left and right.

So if you dont want me to take a defensive stand then lets indeed have a reasonable conversation without flaming as i feel thats all thats going on here.

Being told im sexually assualting people is flaming and downright insulting to me. Im not a sex offender dont even have a misdemeanor.

Quit playing victim and try answering the points that have been made. If you can't handle a heated exchange, then don't dish it out.

You need to demonstrate that the scans and patdowns are a) safe b) effective c) Constitutional d) the ONLY method that works. And don't do this by regurgitating the same talking points that you've spewed already - counterpoints have already been made.

Bottom line - explain why operating an ad hoc, reactive system is going to stop terrorism when all they have to do is move on to a) another method b) another location c) both.

And you need to account for Janet Incompetano's OBVIOUS lies to the American people in the last week or so. Why should we trust ANYTHING you say when your Dear Leader is blatantly LYING to us?

1. She said that images aren't saved - FALSE
2. She said that patdowns/scans on Americans is because of young American men going overseas to Jihadi camps and coming back as newly minted terrorists - FALSE because Grandma and granddaughter are still being groped and scanned.

 

[BlackLS06]

The AIT is safe indeed its simply radiowaves like the ones that are all around us.

I dont know about the backscatter but the radiation levels are supposed to be lower than that of the levels we are exposed to flying in the cabin of the plane. I myself would prefer to be patted down as i feel its safer.

As far as being constitutional, nobody is going into your home and searching without a warrant. Most people dont have to be patted down either. Only those that cant be cleared because of some medical implant or other reason that they alarm.

Everybody young and old regardless of gender has to be cleared. If grandma doesnt set off the metal detector she doesnt need to patted down.

 

[pektel]

We already profile in other security measures, like the drug war. Colombians are marked men.

Seems we're deathly afraid of offending the muslims, as though if we don't offend them they won't attack us.

Don't we offend muslims simply by not being muslim?

 

[fossten]

The AIT is safe indeed its simply radiowaves like the ones that are all around us.

Okay, let's take this one sentence at a time. You're asserting this with full scientific knowledge of radio waves? Mmkay.

I dont know about the backscatter but the radiation levels are supposed to be lower than that of the levels we are exposed to flying in the cabin of the plane.

'Supposed to be?' So you aren't sure, and yet you assert that it's safe?

I myself would prefer to be patted down as i feel its safer.

And here you contradict yourself and demonstrate uncertainty about its safety.

As far as being constitutional, nobody is going into your home and searching without a warrant. Most people dont have to be patted down either. Only those that cant be cleared because of some medical implant or other reason that they alarm.

Have you even READ the 4th Amendment? So as long as I'm not in my home, I can be searched without probable cause? What part of "[SIZE=+1]The right of the people to be secure in their persons[/SIZE]" do you not understand? I mean, it's only the FIRST FREAKING SENTENCE of the Amendment...

Everybody young and old regardless of gender has to be cleared. If grandma doesnt set off the metal detector she doesnt need to patted down.

More assertion without evidence as to why...

Once again, you're looking for things instead of terrorists. That is why you fail.

But thanks for avoiding NEARLY EVERY counterpoint given in this thread. You've demonstrated that you're nothing but a hack.

 

[shagdrum]

As far as being constitutional, nobody is going into your home and searching without a warrant. Most people dont have to be patted down either. Only those that cant be cleared because of some medical implant or other reason that they alarm.

The 4th Amendment does not have to do with only a place of resident...

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized​

The better argument is one of the inherent trade off between security and freedom and the one area where even the Framers viewed it necessary for occasional temporary restrictions of Constitutional freedoms; national defense (an idea that is inherent in the Constitution).

 

[fossten]

The 4th Amendment does not have to do with only a place of resident...

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized​

The better argument is one of the inherent trade off between security and freedom and the one area where even the Framers viewed it necessary for occasional temporary restrictions of Constitutional freedoms; national defense (an idea that is inherent in the Constitution).

...and even that argument is flawed and easily refuted.

 

[Calabrio]

Actually, I think the more important issue here which "BlackLS06" is able to discuss is whether on the TSA is being pressured to unionize, and if all of this increased tension and, arguably, harassment, from inconvenienced travelers and passionate people like Fossten, has created a sort of bunker mentalily that is pushing them towards voting for it.

 

[fossten]

I'm not going to accept blame for the TSA unionizing. This has Obama/Incompetano written all over it. Yet another thug organization like the ATF that gets big for its breeches by bullying American citizens.

 

[BlackLS06]

There is a union that we can join:

http://www.nteu.org/

Now do i believe they make anything happen? Not really.

Don't we offend muslims simply by not being muslim?

It depends on how traditional they are.

Being something other than muslim doesnt necessarily offend them, just certain acts. When i was deployed we had muslim interpreters who were pretty cool and we actually were able to talk to them (they spoke fluent english) and get a better perspective of how things are seen over there.

We spoke about religion....the 2003 invasion. Got a lot of good info. In general the locals wanted us there. Its the outsiders from yemen, lebanon, and other countries who would come into Iraq and screw things up. I would eat pork right in front of him and he didnt care. we shook hands, shared drinks and lived in the same areas.

We smoked the same cigarretes....we were one team. Yet we still kept our distance cause you never know. Being from the area they could have had ties to aqi or jam.

 

[Calabrio]

There is a union that we can join:
http://www.nteu.org/
Now do i believe they make anything happen? Not really.

Yes, and now the NTEU wants a vote for exclusive representation to engage in mandatory collective bargaining with the government, and the Federal Labor Relations Authority has ordered that vote.

You're not aware of this?

 

[BlackLS06]

Its been an ongoing issue ever since i was hired on.

Just like we are the lowest paid federal workers, we arent even on the GS scale therefore we get no raises. A new hire makes almost the same as an 8 year employee of the same pay band.

And now obama has called for a two year federal pay freeze.

 

[Calabrio]

And the NRLA has ORDERED the vote to unionize with the NTEU to take place soon.
Will you be voting for it or against it?

 

[lincolnx2]

Its been an ongoing issue ever since i was hired on.

Just like we are the lowest paid federal workers, we arent even on the GS scale therefore we get no raises. A new hire makes almost the same as an 8 year employee of the same pay band.

And now obama has called for a two year federal pay freeze.

You guys are security guards, you shouldn't be GS. The gate guards that stand on the gates of installations aren't GS. Majority of people in the GS system should not be GS.

 

[Calabrio]

You guys are security guards, you shouldn't be GS. The gate guards that stand on the gates of installations aren't GS. Majority of people in the GS system should not be GS.

The entire thing should be privatized.
Everyone would get their raises based on performance, guys with good minds and military experience, like our resident member here, will have job security and rise to the top and earn what he's worth, and as we'll all be safer for it.

Homeland can still put their oppressive noses into things, but at least hire it out.

 

[BlackLS06]

You guys are security guards, you shouldn't be GS. The gate guards that stand on the gates of installations aren't GS. Majority of people in the GS system should not be GS.

Because those guys are private security. And regardless of being security guards we are federal employees and paid by the U.S. Treasury.

The entire thing should be privatized.
Everyone would get their raised based on performance, guys good minds and military experience like our resident member will have job security and rise to the top and earn what he's worth, and we'll all be safer for it.

Homeland can still put their oppressive noses into things, but at least hire it out.

Doesnt matter if its privatized. The same procedures would have to be followed. So you would have private employees doing the same pat downs and using the same body scanners.

And most likely all of us would be offered to go private so it would be the same people as well.

We are on a current so called pay for performance plan but its flawed and doesnt really work.

 

[fossten]

And now obama has called for a two year federal pay freeze.

Don't worry about that - it means nothing. It's just PR. Obama's not going to freeze anybody's pay. Step increases will still happen.

 

[fossten]

Doesnt matter if its privatized. The same procedures would have to be followed. So you would have private employees doing the same pat downs and using the same body scanners.

...minus the draconian rules which throw people in jail for even raising an eyebrow at a TSA 'agent.'

 

[lincolnx2]

Because those guys are private security. And regardless of being security guards we are federal employees and paid by the U.S. Treasury.



Doesnt matter if its privatized. The same procedures would have to be followed. So you would have private employees doing the same pat downs and using the same body scanners.

And most likely all of us would be offered to go private so it would be the same people as well.

We are on a current so called pay for performance plan but its flawed and doesnt really work.

And the TSA should be privatized! There are too many Civil Service employees already.

 

[Calabrio]

Doesnt matter if its privatized. The same procedures would have to be followed.

Not necessarily. If you're going to change things that much, the procedures would likely change as well.

But, if nothing else, privatization would result in an economic and quality improvement for all. Including you.

And most likely all of us would be offered to go private so it would be the same people as well.

Not all of you.

We are on a current so called pay for performance plan but its flawed and doesnt really work.

Nothing the federal government does "really works."


And, when you get a chance, I'm really interested in hearing more about the unionization issue. That really seems like the thrust behind all of these current events and the most significant aspect of this conversation.

 

[lincolnx2]

The only reason people want to work for the Federal Goverment is because its hard to get fired, if the TSA is privatized, a union will never exist and they would be fired for breathing to hard.

 

[fossten]

The only reason people want to work for the Federal Goverment is because its hard to get fired, if the TSA is privatized, a union will never exist and they would be fired for breathing to hard.

Well if you see some of the pics, some of them breathe hard after getting up out of a chair.

 

[lincolnx2]

Well if you see some of the pics, some of them breathe hard after getting up out of a chair.

Thats the problem, I am confident I can outrun %99.9 percent of all TSA "agents".