'04 ls still stalling!!!

[Ladybird04LS]

Months ago I posted a thread on the problems we were having with our 2004 Lincoln LS stalling while idling or traveling at a low rate of speed around curves or slowing to make a turn.

We thought we had found the problem back then, but after replacing several key parts, the car is still stalling. We received some helpful advice from a few forum members, which was greatly appreciated, but at this point are at a loss as to the origin of the issue.

My husband put in a new EGR valve, throttle body, engine temperature sensor, IMTV O-rings, and cleaned the MAF sensor...to no avail.

Any more suggestions?

 

[LS4me]

Months ago I posted a thread on the problems we were having with our 2004 Lincoln LS stalling while idling or traveling at a low rate of speed around curves or slowing to make a turn.

We thought we had found the problem back then, but after replacing several key parts, the car is still stalling. We received some helpful advice from a few forum members, which was greatly appreciated, but at this point are at a loss as to the origin of the issue.

My husband put in a new EGR valve, throttle body, engine temperature sensor, IMTV O-rings, and cleaned the MAF sensor...to no avail.

Any more suggestions?

Transmission fluid level...

 

[RigsLS]

Transmission fluid level...

Huh? "while idling" ~ Sealed unit, why would it be low on fluid and how would that cause it to stall out while idling, approach to and during a slow turn?



@Ladybird04LS, The advice I put forth back then with regards to the replacement of the IMTV O-rings was in an effort to get that oil burn smell to stop entering the interior cab. Which I believe solved your problem of just that, the oil leak at the back of your V6. This would have nothing much to do with a stall out scenario.

As you describe the problem to only be on low speeds, while attempting to turn, we need to look at the fuel and ignition, making sure that as it wants to lean either when slowing or while in a turn, that there is no short on wiring that would cause either something like the fuel pump, injectors and/or ignition spark to sporadically shut down.

I trust the fuel filter and air breather element has been changed, the fuel pumps verified and possible the fuel rail pressure has been checked. I'd also be looking at ensuring all the intake breather elements are tight and secure. Unmetered air entering in after the MAF (Mass Air Flow) sensor, will throw the air/fuel mixture right out the window.

stalling while idling ... You are sure when it does idle normally, it does so without any sputtering, meaning have the coils and plugs been inspected/replaced.


So only when its either idling, or during slow idle speed turns, getting ready to turn. (should actually also do it then when coming to a stop while off the peddle)

It does not do it when you drive it a bit more aggressive.

leads me to believe fuel supply.

I'd be checking fuel/air/spark then possibly check if the CATs are by chance clogged up from current or previous misfires.

 

[LS4me]

Huh? "while idling" ~ Sealed unit, why would it be low on fluid and how would that cause it to stall out while idling, approach to and during a slow turn?

The transmission is not a sealed unit. This has been discussed before and the ONLY reason there is no dipstick (other than the one behind the wheel) is there wasn't room for one during installation.

When I replaced my solenoid pack I got the fluid too low. I had the same symptoms as Ladybird. Not enough fluid spinning the TQ and the engine will stall. If the fluid is low and the trans hasn't been "opened up" I would look for a leak. We all know trans fluid isn't "used"....

 

[RigsLS]

It's a sealed unit, trust me, if it wasn't fluid would drip out and it doesn't just get low by itself. There is no mention by the OP that there are shift issues.

 

[joegr]

It's a sealed unit, trust me, if it wasn't fluid would drip out and it doesn't just get low by itself. There is no mention by the OP that there are shift issues.

It actually is vented. If you go under water, water will mix in. Anyway, yes fluid isn't consumed and it doesn't evaporate. However, they could have a leak that they haven't noticed. Also, if it was recently serviced (fluid exchanged) they may have gotten the level wrong. Also, the possibility of a failing torque converter should be explored as well as a PCM issue in the transmission control area.

 

[RigsLS]

It has a vent valve. I honestly don't think the transmission plays part in this stalling out issue.

"stalling while idling or traveling at a low rate of speed around curves or slowing to make a turn."


This statement would lead me to believe it works as intended otherwise. Meaning it's not happening all the time. An LS idling in the driveway just doesn't stall out because of transmission fluid level concerns. It would be a first if I hear/seen any car run fine normally but then occasionally stall out due to low trans fluid.

If it's low and effecting this I would have thought it would not be able to be driven at all. I just don't see anything transmission related as being part of the stalling out issue.

 

[joegr]

Gotcha. It hasn't been one of your experiences, so it must not ever happen.

 

[RigsLS]

It is what it is ... I am suggesting fuel/air/spark and don't believe that it's transmission related. OP is not complaining about shift or other transmission issues!

 

[Telco]

Joe, is the fuel pressure regulator vacuum controlled? If so, a dry rotted or cracked vacuum line could cause this, due to fluxuating fuel pressure. A failing fuel pump could conceivably cause this as well, although fuel pumps usually either work or they don't.

 

[joegr]

Joe, is the fuel pressure regulator vacuum controlled? If so, a dry rotted or cracked vacuum line could cause this, due to fluxuating fuel pressure. A failing fuel pump could conceivably cause this as well, although fuel pumps usually either work or they don't.

There is no regulator. The fuel pressure sensor (same job more or less) is relative to engine vacuum. That vacuum line is a hard line and could have crumbled.

 

[jgscott]

It is what it is ... I am suggesting fuel/air/spark and don't believe that it's transmission related. OP is not complaining about shift or other transmission issues!

I was beginning to wonder if I read him wrong or was I not getting it also. Especially with the A+ go to guys posting here. LOL! You guys must have had a hell of a Xmas break.

I say fuel pump??

 

[Ladybird04LS]

LOL! Sounds like we have quite a debate going on here! HA! Thanks, guys. My husband said it doesn't seem like a "fuel pump" issue because the fuel pressure is good, and it will not stall if the RPMs are over 1200. It always stalls at "idle", or when you have your foot off of the gas in a turn and the rpms are under a certain amount.

 

[Ladybird04LS]

Huh? "while idling" ~ Sealed unit, why would it be low on fluid and how would that cause it to stall out while idling, approach to and during a slow turn?



@Ladybird04LS, The advice I put forth back then with regards to the replacement of the IMTV O-rings was in an effort to get that oil burn smell to stop entering the interior cab. Which I believe solved your problem of just that, the oil leak at the back of your V6. This would have nothing much to do with a stall out scenario.

As you describe the problem to only be on low speeds, while attempting to turn, we need to look at the fuel and ignition, making sure that as it wants to lean either when slowing or while in a turn, that there is no short on wiring that would cause either something like the fuel pump, injectors and/or ignition spark to sporadically shut down.

I trust the fuel filter and air breather element has been changed, the fuel pumps verified and possible the fuel rail pressure has been checked. I'd also be looking at ensuring all the intake breather elements are tight and secure. Unmetered air entering in after the MAF (Mass Air Flow) sensor, will throw the air/fuel mixture right out the window.

stalling while idling ... You are sure when it does idle normally, it does so without any sputtering, meaning have the coils and plugs been inspected/replaced.


So only when its either idling, or during slow idle speed turns, getting ready to turn. (should actually also do it then when coming to a stop while off the peddle)

It does not do it when you drive it a bit more aggressive.

leads me to believe fuel supply.

I'd be checking fuel/air/spark then possibly check if the CATs are by chance clogged up from current or previous misfires.


View attachment 828474771

Thanks for the advice Yes, the suggestion you made concerning the O-rings back then was exactly the problem causing the "burnt smell", and we have had no issues with that since...so thank you very much for the input!

The air filter is clean, and the MAF sensor has been cleaned, and there are no leaks past the sensor.

After the LS left me stranded while driving around our home town several times after replacing the parts mentioned, my husband had no more time to work on it, so it's been sitting with a cover over it for months now.

Our '92 Toyota Camry needs an overhaul, so I am without a car right now, as I cannot drive my husband's F350 standard dually. We're hoping to find the cause of the issue soon.

We thank everyone for their input!

 

[LS4me]

LOL! Sounds like we have quite a debate going on here! HA! Thanks, guys. My husband said it doesn't seem like a "fuel pump" issue because the fuel pressure is good, and it will not stall if the RPMs are over 1200. It always stalls at "idle", or when you have your foot off of the gas in a turn and the rpms are under a certain amount.

EXACTLY my symptoms. Once the revs were up the car ran and shifted fine. As long as I held the revs up when stopped it would stay running. If I lifted, the car stalled.

It's pretty cheap, if not free, to have the fluid level checked.

 

[Telco]

Fluid level is a pain to check compared to other cars, but isn't actually difficult to do.

You need to raise the car high enough to get under it, yet have it level. For me this means pulling the front wheels on the ramps, then putting the rear on jack stands. Start the car and warm it up, then with the car running climb under it and pull the plug out the drain plug in the bottom of the pan. If fluid comes out, it's overfull. If no fluid comes out, it is low. If it comes out in little spurts, it is the correct level. Make sense yet?

The drain plug has a 2-3 inch tube on the inside of the pan, which is why this works like this. If no fluid comes out, you can put fluid in through a port on the back of the transmission, passenger side top. First, put the drain plug back in. Then unscrew the plug in the rear, put fluid in, then check the level again. To put fluid in, I normally use the cap for a bottle of Lucas oil additive, power steering additive, whatnot, like the picture below. Screw it onto a bottle of Mercon V trans fluid, put a plastic/rubber tube on the tip, then squeeze the fluid in through the hole. Once you put some fluid in, you can check the level by removing the drain plug. If some fluid starts coming out, wait until it starts coming out in little spurts, then put the plug back in. Make sure to put the plug in the back of the trans too.

Your fluid level is now set correctly, and as you start putting the tools away you'll find yourself daydreaming about meeting the guy that designed this system, and shaking him vigorously by the neck. I mean, it's not like a proper dipstick would have been impossible for an engineer to design and install, and it's not like it would have added a noticeable cost to the car.

A cap like the one on this bottle:

 

[RigsLS]

EXACTLY my symptoms. Once the revs were up the car ran and shifted fine. As long as I held the revs up when stopped it would stay running. If I lifted, the car stalled.

It's pretty cheap, if not free, to have the fluid level checked.

So now to find out if it stalls at idle while in Park, if it doesn't and does in fact stall out at idle speed while in any forward gear, you may have a point after all. As you said, cheap to check. cheap to fix.

 

[drag214]

I was beginning to wonder if I read him wrong or was I not getting it also. Especially with the A+ go to guys posting here. LOL! You guys must have had a hell of a Xmas break.

I say fuel pump??

A few months back I had the same problem. Stalling while idling or running briefly then stalling. However, I also had random misfire codes along with cylinders 1, 4, 8, 5 and 3. When I checked the pressure on the fuel rail I got 10 psi when I cycle the key. It would drop down to 0psi while running. No visible leaks.
The problem was my fuel pump. The pump it self was working but the tubes leading to the cap (inside the fuel tank) were old and cracked. This allowed fuel to fall back down into the tank. I wasn't getting fuel.

 

[Ladybird04LS]

EXACTLY my symptoms. Once the revs were up the car ran and shifted fine. As long as I held the revs up when stopped it would stay running. If I lifted, the car stalled.

It's pretty cheap, if not free, to have the fluid level checked.

Thank you I'll let him know.

 

[Ladybird04LS]

Fluid level is a pain to check compared to other cars, but isn't actually difficult to do.

You need to raise the car high enough to get under it, yet have it level. For me this means pulling the front wheels on the ramps, then putting the rear on jack stands. Start the car and warm it up, then with the car running climb under it and pull the plug out the drain plug in the bottom of the pan. If fluid comes out, it's overfull. If no fluid comes out, it is low. If it comes out in little spurts, it is the correct level. Make sense yet?

The drain plug has a 2-3 inch tube on the inside of the pan, which is why this works like this. If no fluid comes out, you can put fluid in through a port on the back of the transmission, passenger side top. First, put the drain plug back in. Then unscrew the plug in the rear, put fluid in, then check the level again. To put fluid in, I normally use the cap for a bottle of Lucas oil additive, power steering additive, whatnot, like the picture below. Screw it onto a bottle of Mercon V trans fluid, put a plastic/rubber tube on the tip, then squeeze the fluid in through the hole. Once you put some fluid in, you can check the level by removing the drain plug. If some fluid starts coming out, wait until it starts coming out in little spurts, then put the plug back in. Make sure to put the plug in the back of the trans too.

Your fluid level is now set correctly, and as you start putting the tools away you'll find yourself daydreaming about meeting the guy that designed this system, and shaking him vigorously by the neck. I mean, it's not like a proper dipstick would have been impossible for an engineer to design and install, and it's not like it would have added a noticeable cost to the car.

A cap like the one on this bottle:

Wow...I am speechless as to the "why" behind this design concept...unbelievable! Thanks, though, for the awesomely detailed explanation of how to check the transmission fluid level. I will copy for my husband.

 

[jgscott]

Fuel pressure at idle, can be different when a load is put on. I still say fuel pump related in older cars, a bad/clogged fuel filter would cause this same problem.

 

[Ladybird04LS]

A few months back I had the same problem. Stalling while idling or running briefly then stalling. However, I also had random misfire codes along with cylinders 1, 4, 8, 5 and 3. When I checked the pressure on the fuel rail I got 10 psi when I cycle the key. It would drop down to 0psi while running. No visible leaks.
The problem was my fuel pump. The pump it self was working but the tubes leading to the cap (inside the fuel tank) were old and cracked. This allowed fuel to fall back down into the tank. I wasn't getting fuel.

Thank you...I'll give my husband the info

 

[Ladybird04LS]

Fuel pressure at idle, can be different when a load is put on. I still say fuel pump related in older cars, a bad/clogged fuel filter would cause this same problem.

Thank you! We'll check it out

 

[Ladybird04LS]

So now to find out if it stalls at idle while in Park, if it doesn't and does in fact stall out at idle speed while in any forward gear, you may have a point after all. As you said, cheap to check. cheap to fix.

It does stall in "Park".

 

[RigsLS]

Yeah see, if it stalls out just sitting there idling while in Park, to me that's then not Trans related but more so a fuel supply issue. I dunno ... as already mentioned, filters have to be clean and replaced, no leaks after MAF and no clogged CATs. No-one is dumping sugar into your fuel tank at night I would hope. Make sure your husband has checked the whole thing for vacuum leaks. You can wave an unlit propane torch around the hard lines while it's running, if the RPM's suddenly go up you found a leak. Try changing out the fuel filter if it hasn't already been done and be sure to run the highest octane.

No Check Engine Light ? ... and it's not sputtering while idling?

We tend to fix most issues with brand new OEM coils and NGK plugs.

Good luck ... I can't keep guessing at it, it may upset others. Still get that Trans fluid level checked though, you never know.