A Gun-Nut Win On Health Reform

[Calabrio]

So, to clear things up-
you're arguing that it's not important for people to educate themselves and their neighbors, but that they just do something.... and in this case, doing "something" is not going to work for a day.

The media didn't cover the hundreds of thousands of people who showed up in D.C.... how much respect or coverage would people not working generate?
The hispanics and homosexuals seem to try this "protest" every year too. No one participates because it's stupid.

"Show your strength and get fired!"
"Tell them you mean business, lose a days pay!"

Maybe that'll fit on a bumper sticker though.

But this is different, it includes what's essential the threat of boycott too.

 

[fossten]

So, to clear things up-
you're arguing that it's not important for people to educate themselves and their neighbors, but that they just do something.... and in this case, doing "something" is not going to work for a day.

Wrong.

Jet back brother - I NEVER ONCE argued any of that. In fact, most of the people in our group agree that taking one day off work is ineffective, not that you've noticed. There is still much discussion.

I guess I can just stop here, since you are unwilling to do some reading - I can tell you haven't visited the site. You don't have a problem poisoning the well, though, albeit out of sheer ignorance and hearsay, and now you're moving up to straw man status.

I would have thought that the one place where I could discuss these ideas openly without knee-jerk, ignorant mockery from my own side would be here. I guess I was wrong.

Let me know when you're ready to drop the condescending tone and have an actual, informative, open minded discussion. I'll be around.

 

[hrmwrm]

i noticed. david s. linked to this.
http://hotair.com/greenroom/archives/2009/12/23/drop-the-national-strike/

 

[PetesSweets86]

Your article drips with vitriol against gun ownership. GOA is a good organization, not that the ignorant Timothy Noah would know anything about it. By the way, I'm a member and I've met Larry Pratt personally.

The reality does not correspond to the perception created by media coverage. Fatal gun accidents declined by almost sixty percent from 1975 to 1995, even though the number of guns per capita increased by almost forty percent.

Fatal gun accidents involving children (aged 0-14) also fell significantly, from 495 in 1975, to under 250 in 1995. More children die from accidental drownings or burns than from gun accidents.

(Gun supply statistics are from the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms, gun accident rates from the National Safety Council).

Accident Type by Age
0-4 5-14 15-24 25-44 45-64 65-74 75+ Total
Automobile 900 1,500 10,500 13,300 9,200 2,700 4,900 43,000
Falls 70 70 210 950 1,900 1,700 11,300 16,200
Poisoning by solids, liquids 60 40 800 6,800 3,200 300 500 11,700
Pedestrian1 250 300 750 1,300 1,400 450 850 5,300
Drowning 450 350 700 1,250 650 230 270 3,900
Fires, burns 400 260 240 700 800 500 700 3,600
Suffocation by ingested object 100 20 30 250 400 500 2,100 3,400
Firearms 20 60 150 190 110 30 40 600
Poisoning by gases, vapors 10 10 70 120 80 40 70 400
All other causes 700 400 1,100 3,000 3,200 1,600 4,500 14,500
TOTAL 2,700 2,700 13,800 26,600 19,500 7,600 24,400 97,300

partially because the cost of guns exceeds that of what they were in the 70s. Btw nice Clockwork Orange picture!

 

[04SCTLS]

Btw nice Clockwork Orange picture!

I was cured alright!

 

[04SCTLS]

i noticed. david s. linked to this.
http://hotair.com/greenroom/archives...tional-strike/

Can anyone say John Galt.
A strike may have worked in Atlas Shrugged but this is real life.

 

[fossten]

partially because the cost of guns exceeds that of what they were in the 70s. Btw nice Clockwork Orange picture!

Nonsense. Gun ownership is higher than it's ever been.

 

[fossten]

Can anyone say John Galt.
A strike may have worked in Atlas Shrugged but this is real life.

I'm not in favor of a strike from work. I'd rather do a tax protest. But there is still a bit of discussion. There's no reason that we can't do several different things.

 

[PetesSweets86]

I was cured alright!

are you sure?

 

[PetesSweets86]

Nonsense. Gun ownership is higher than it's ever been.

but bullets cost more, and i'm not gonna spend $1 dollar a bullet on a random person, i want my target dead with only 1-3shots fired

 

[04SCTLS]

I'm not in favor of a strike from work. I'd rather do a tax protest. But there is still a bit of discussion. There's no reason that we can't do several different things.

One time stunts are not going to do it.
Unless there is a sustained effort the ruling class (Atlas) will Shrug (pun intended) it off.

Your source talks about picketing and boycotting large corporations for supporting socialism.

This is what I was thinking of when I said sustained effort.
But even this might only get so much traction.
The public shrugs
And other than bums how many people have the time for this.
Hiring bums as protesters would send the wrong message.

Taxes are deducted at source unless you're self employed so I can't see tax witholding getting anywhere.

There's really nothing you can do that will cow or affect the government and all you have is working towards voting the bums out come the next election.

 

[04SCTLS]

are you sure?

They must have taken that photo last week.... when I was doing 120 LOL!

 

[fossten]

One time stunts are not going to do it.
Unless there is a sustained effort the ruling class (Atlas) will Shrug (pun intended) it off.

Your source talks about picketing and boycotting large corporations for supporting socialism.

This is what I was thinking of when I said sustained effort.
But even this might only get so much traction.
The public shrugs
And other than bums how many people have the time for this.
Hiring bums as protesters would send the wrong message.

Taxes are deducted at source unless you're self employed so I can't see tax witholding getting anywhere.

There's really nothing you can do that will cow or affect the government and all you have is working towards voting the bums out come the next election.

Hiring bums? Man, you're really clueless. If you read anything beyond the first paragraph you'd know that there is a series of actions being planned.

You're wrong about taxes. I can change my withholding any time I want. The IRS does not have a clue how much I'm supposed to deduct until April 15.

Your line about voting the bums out being the only recourse is so much bullsh!t. Go back to your slave pen.

 

[PetesSweets86]

They must have taken that photo last week.... when I was doing 120 LOL!

maybe

 

[04SCTLS]

Hiring bums? Man, you're really clueless. If you read anything beyond the first paragraph you'd know that there is a series of actions being planned.

You're wrong about taxes. I can change my withholding any time I want. The IRS does not have a clue how much I'm supposed to deduct until April 15.

Your line about voting the bums out being the only recourse is so much bullsh!t. Go back to your slave pen.

I just threw the hiring bums thing in for fun.
You would need an army of protesters applying a sustained effort to make any headway.
Some people can maybe afford to take at most 1 day off work to protest.
Only bums would have the time but I'm just putting you on.

Sure you can change your witholding rate but you still have to pay SS Medicare then square off in April.
California upped the witholding rate for a short term but you can reset it back down but you have to make that effort.
So they're doing the same thing you suggest but in reverse.

I have to make big estimated 1/4 ly payments and pay penalties if the income exceeds the estimates by more than 10%.

Most people will not change their tax rates as a protest.

I skimmed through your source and they've set Jan 10, a Sunday(not a work day if you hadn't noticed) to show their power
That's 2 weeks away so let's see how it goes.
Probably more mouse than elephant.

 

[fossten]

I skimmed through your source and they've set Jan 10, a Sunday(not a work day if you hadn't noticed) to show their power
That's 2 weeks away so let's see it goes.
Probably more mouse than elephant.

Having trouble reading? It's Jan 20.

 

[foxpaws]

Foss-Please check with your tax preparer or attorney regarding having your withholding changed. The IRS has some pretty strict rules regarding this – if you worked last year and you had taxes withheld, you have certain requirements regarding your withholding for this year – and if you don’t meet those requirements you will end up owing penalties as well as interest on the amount you didn’t pay during the year. Tell your friends too – you could end up paying a lot more to the government – and you really don’t want to do that.

Remember - only with the IRS are you guilty until you prove your innocence...

Now for something more fun...

Ah Droogies - viddy this...
I have an original poster - with the 'x' rating (which was pulled shortly after release to be re-edited by Kubrick to get an 'r' rating). It is one of my all time favorite movies...

04SCTLS - bit of a Kubrick Fan? Got 2 of them represented...

 

[THEMOJOMAN]

town hall meetings

...so if we nationalize medicine or health insurance, what part of our private lives SHOULD NOT be regulated by the government?

Only the rich can AFFORD to have the ability to pay for their "rights?"

If you MANDATE that everyone has to have a health insurance policy provided by or authored by the federal government, where does government end and the private begin?

Can I ride a motorcycle?
Ski?
Mountain climb?
Hiking?
What behavior is sufficiently risky that I should be FORCED to pay extreme insurance rates to persuade or nudge me from engaging in it.

I wish I could've gotten to a TOWN HALL meeting up north,,and had a mike in my hand,,being video taped by FOX NEWS. "WE WANT THE SAME HEALTH PLAN THAT CONGRESS HAS". Not one of the dummies that had that chance while on camera said that.

 

[fossten]

Foss-Please check with your tax preparer or attorney regarding having your withholding changed. The IRS has some pretty strict rules regarding this – if you worked last year and you had taxes withheld, you have certain requirements regarding your withholding for this year – and if you don’t meet those requirements you will end up owing penalties as well as interest on the amount you didn’t pay during the year. Tell your friends too – you could end up paying a lot more to the government – and you really don’t want to do that.

"Thanks" for your faux concern.

I've done it before and I'm well aware of the regulations.

Mind your own business.

 

[04SCTLS]

Having trouble reading? It's Jan 20.

Well that makes all the difference.
By then this protest will be something to be reckoned with

 

[foxpaws]

"Thanks" for your faux concern.

I've done it before and I'm well aware of the regulations.

Mind your own business.

It isn't faux and I took the time to ask my tax guy so I could at least let you know that you will pay penalties if you do something as stupid as over claim deductions, and underpay your taxes.

Please do it Foss - the government will be more than happy to penalize you and take your money if you and your friends insist on actually going through with this ill advised way to protest.

 

[04SCTLS]

Now for something more fun...

Ah Droogies - viddy this...
I have an original poster - with the 'x' rating (which was pulled shortly after release to be re-edited by Kubrick to get an 'r' rating). It is one of my all time favorite movies...

04SCTLS - bit of a Kubrick Fan? Got 2 of them represented...

Yes both Dr Strangelove and Clockwork Orange are 2 of my favorite movies.
For me they make the perfect avatar and sig.
I had a similar poster like yours on my wall for 10 years.
Clockwork Orange is a unique art film beautifully filmed with a classical soundtrack that represents some of the darker impulses of humanity.
Alex dances with the devil and pays his consequences.

Charming, smart, clever, dominant, nihilistic, hedonistic, as well as a sadistic killer Alex's story is an interesting mix of art,violence, revenge, redemption, corruption and a truimph of sorts (or maybe not hence the "I was cured alright" quote which is the last line in the movie)

For me the movie always seems like 2 parts, the more exciting first part
where they all go on beautifully choreographed rampages after drinking "synthemesc" at the Moloko bar up until the part when he kills that woman with the large porcelean Steely Dan he was amused with.

Naughty, Naughty.

Don't touch that, It's a work of art!

she yells at him just before he attacks her with it.

He's so arrogant he doesn't show any respect to his droogs and they betray him.
After that his life takes a turn for the worse and after prison as a broken weakling with a crushed spirit,
he is revisited by all the people he was malicious to in the first half, including his former mates who are now cops and take special delight in water torturing him.

The Beethoven touch in the Lodovigo (Ludvig Von) Technique is a brilliant form of punishment.
I enjoy Beethoven symphonies 5, 6 and 9 myself and the music adds great impact to the story.

And Strangelove is the most brilliant black comedy of all time.
It gets better with every viewing and the closing "We'll meet again, don't know how don't know when, but I know it will be one sunny day" song in reference to nuclear weapons is one of the first things I thought of when I witnessed 9/11 live on tv that morning.

 

[fossten]

It isn't faux and I took the time to ask my tax guy so I could at least let you know that you will pay penalties if you do something as stupid as over claim deductions, and underpay your taxes.

Please do it Foss - the government will be more than happy to penalize you and take your money if you and your friends insist on actually going through with this ill advised way to protest.

You contacted your accountant over Christmas weekend so you could warn me? :bowrofl:

Again, faux pas, I'm well aware of tax law. So, again, "thanks."

 

[foxpaws]

04SCTLS - Oh bliss! Bliss and heaven! However I think of Rossini as well - the scene with the little sisters (William Tell), as well as the whole first act brilliantly set to the Thieving Magpie. Kubrick and Carlos' use of music is as important to the film as the dialog.

Alex dances with the devil - but he doesn't end up paying the final price - he ends up continuing a life of ultraviolence after there has been public outrage against his 'treatment'. The Minister comes in and explains to him about the problem and how Alex can be instrumental in changing how the public views their little 'experiment'. Once again giving our little droogie free rein.

So British - Steely Dan...

As clear as an azure sky of deepest summer. Obviously Foss isn't quite so clear on Tax Evasion...

You contacted your accountant over Christmas weekend so you could warn me?

Again, faux pas, I'm well aware of tax law. So, again, thanks.

So, since my tax guy is a very, very good friend, and a client as well - I thought I would call him, I was interested in how the IRS works in this instance. You are getting superb advice for free Foss. You are welcome...

FYI - Remember taxes must be paid as wages or compensation is received or earned (and this is based on 90% of your income last year, if you are like employed this year - so they have that little bit covered as well). And also remember that the IRS combines these penalties if you can't prove you are innocent of them, they can multiply upon themselves creating penalties that are far above the liability caused by just one infraction.

Late tax payments to the IRS (Just in case you think you can make up the difference in the last 2 months of the year - nope, they have this covered)
0.5% per month of the unpaid tax due the IRS (maximum 25%)

Negligence or disregard of IRS tax rules and IRS tax regulations (you know the law-you aren't complying with it)
20% of tax underpayment due the IRS

Fraud
75% of tax underpayment due the IRS

Substantial understatements of income tax
20% of tax underpayment due the IRS​

So-please do protest this way - the IRS would love to collect more of your money. Because if they find you guilty of this...

Internal Revenue Code section 7209: Any person who willfully attempts in any manner to evade or defeat any tax imposed by this title or the payment thereof shall, in addition to other penalties provided by law, be guilty of a felony and, upon conviction thereof, shall be fined not more than $100,000 ($500,000 in the case of a corporation), or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both, together with the costs of prosecution.

It could get really sticky. And foolishly your group is discussing this on a website.

 

[fossten]

Negligence or disregard of IRS tax rules and IRS tax regulations (you know the law-you aren't complying with it)

So, you do or you don't want me to do this? You seem to be saying both things.

You really don't know anything about me, faux. So mind your own business. I understand that you like to hear yourself talk, but this really doesn't concern you. Your condescension is not easily masked.

Buh-bye now.