Better to be cheap

[amorgan2017]

Well better off being a cheap guy and working around things on this car. Suggestion to anyone taking off the intake don't do it. Take off the throttle body..cut off the 2 bolts on the elbow and buy 2 new ones. **** this car and it's dumb ass parts. Bolt one on the intake comes off fine. Bolt number 2 in the back..kinda tight but comes out..lucky number 3 nope! Breaks off way down where the threads first start. Needless to stay kinda screwed. No clue what to do but put it back together at this point and hope the degas bottle was the problem. Either that or a **** ton of work.

 

[joegr]

First I've heard of that.

Remove the intake and use a bolt or screw out to get the remainder of the bolt out. They're all needed. You'll almost certainly get an air leak without it.

 

[amorgan2017]

First I've heard of that.

Remove the intake and use a bolt or screw out to get the remainder of the bolt out. They're all needed. You'll almost certainly get an air leak without it.

Do you know how far the bolts go down into the head? It's broken pretty much where the threads start. I was going to remove the rest of the bolts but I'm worried of breaking one on the other side too. I followed the order and printed out all the papers but the 3rd one..left rear of intake is broken. I decided to try and use gasket sealer on the bottom of the bolt and the top because I knew nothing else. I already have it all back together and am just going to see if it runs right.

If it does then I'll probably leave it like that? And try doing it the route of cutting those 2 bolts and avoiding the intake. About 5 minutes away from starting it to test..crossing my fingers. My dad thinks its a monster job to tear down to the head..says you'd probably need a bunch of gaskets if you went down there. And does it also bolt down to lower intake manifolds?

 

[04_Sport_LS]

I know it's a little late now, (sorry), but sometimes spraying the bolt heads with something like PB Blaster... and letting it soak for a while,,, then starting the engine and letting warm up partially... is enough to unlock the bolts from the threads. Not up to full temp... but enough to get the aluminum to expand a little. Maybe half way to full warm up... then shut it off.

Again... sorry.

Now that you are where you are, (if you decided to try to pull the intake to fix the busted bolt):

http://www.irwin.com/tools/screw-bolt-extractors/35-pc-screw-extractor-drill-bit-set

You're gonna want the 5/32, 3/16, or 7/32 multi spline extractors . I think you can buy them separately. Also a good set of cobalt drill bits of appropriate size to be slightly larger thane the tapered end of the multi spline extractors. Your also gonna need some sort of thermal blanket, (like sold in the plumbing area of your local big box home store), used for soldering copper plumbing.

Once you get the intake off,,, get everything out of the way near the busted bolt... and cover everything around the bolt with the thermal blanket. Using a small propane torch... head the head slowly, (around the busted bolt) ,,, and occaisionally spray the hole with PB Blaster... letting the oil soak into the threads. While still warm,,, center punch busted bolt, (or do before hand)... then drill about 1/2" deep. Re-heat head around the bolt a little more,,, then use extractor. Go slow... and check for bolt movement... and that the extractor isn't twisting.

If you are willing... hope this helps.

 

[joegr]

Do you know how far the bolts go down into the head? ...

Well, the bolts are 112mm long.

...My dad thinks its a monster job to tear down to the head..says you'd probably need a bunch of gaskets if you went down there. ...

I'm not sure I understand. Once the intake is off, you are "down to the head." The only other thing to get to the head would be to remove the valve covers, but I can't see that helping you. If you meant to remove the head, then that is a way more drastic step than would be needed to fix this. At the very worst, it would be to drill out the bolt and put a helicoil in.

... And does it also bolt down to lower intake manifolds?

I don't understand this question. There is no lower or upper intake manifold on the V8, there is only the single, complete, intake manifold assembly. If you take those bolts out, the whole thing comes out as an assembly, plastic parts, metal parts, fuel injectors, ...

 

[04_Sport_LS]

I see we cross posted each other. Waiting...

 

[amorgan2017]

I know it's a little late now, (sorry), but sometimes spraying the bolt heads with something like PB Blaster... and letting it soak for a while,,, then starting the engine and letting warm up partially... is enough to unlock the bolts from the threads. Not up to full temp... but enough to get the aluminum to expand a little. Maybe half way to full warm up... then shut it off.

Again... sorry.

Now that you are where you are, (if you decided to try to pull the intake to fix the busted bolt):

http://www.irwin.com/tools/screw-bolt-extractors/35-pc-screw-extractor-drill-bit-set

You're gonna want the 5/32, 3/16, or 7/32 multi spline extractors . I think you can buy them separately. Also a good set of cobalt drill bits of appropriate size to be slightly larger thane the tapered end of the multi spline extractors. Your also gonna need some sort of thermal blanket, (like sold in the plumbing area of your local big box home store), used for soldering copper plumbing.

Once you get the intake off,,, get everything out of the way near the busted bolt... and cover everything around the bolt with the thermal blanket. Using a small propane torch... head the head slowly, (around the busted bolt) ,,, and occaisionally spray the hole with PB Blaster... letting the oil soak into the threads. While still warm,,, center punch busted bolt, (or do before hand)... then drill about 1/2" deep. Re-heat head around the bolt a little more,,, then use extractor. Go slow... and check for bolt movement... and that the extractor isn't twisting.

If you are willing... hope this helps.

I had it all torn apart so I couldn't run it as far as i know. It was the same as the other back bolt just this one broke off.
Has anyone heard of this or know if its just that bolt that breaks? I used a breaker bar and I lined up correctly.
I will be drilling if the sealer doesn't do the job.

 

[amorgan2017]

Well, the bolts are 112mm long.



I'm not sure I understand. Once the intake is off, you are "down to the head." The only other thing to get to the head would be to remove the valve covers, but I can't see that helping you. If you meant to remove the head, then that is a way more drastic step than would be needed to fix this. At the very worst, it would be to drill out the bolt and put a helicoil in.



I don't understand this question. There is no lower or upper intake manifold on the V8, there is only the single, complete, intake manifold assembly. If you take those bolts out, the whole thing comes out as an assembly, plastic parts, metal parts, fuel injectors, ...

Sorry he was thinking of the V6 I guess? I put it back together and good news...it is working (for now). I'm not sure how much of a solution or how long but we'll see. I'll try to avoid it at all costs though.

Now that I'm back in business for now, I have a temp gauge i put in the air ducts inside the car now that I am trying to get air out. I started out with around 50-60 degrees. I don't fully understand the directions online but I did it and it half works. I started it first time,,left bleeder open until steady stream. let it idle for 5 minutes making sure the degas bottle stayed at the correct level. Then after I opened up the bleeder to let any air out. Then did the 2-2.5K RPM idle for 3-5 minutes or until heat is hot. This is confusing to me I wasn't sure what to do but i did this..

I never really got any heat until I revved it like it said. It seemed the higher i revved it the more heat I got. While I did the revving i had my dad bleed the system too and it was letting out air..is it best to do while revving it? It releases the most air it seems? Either way it got it up to 92 degrees about on the gauge. Problem is I returned to idle and it went down to 80. So I revved it up again back to 90.

So i decided to drive it and it went down to 55 degrees when I drove?? Assumed it must be more air in it..brought it back repeat rev up and bleed while doing so. Got it to 93 degrees about. This time at idle it stayed 90 for quite awhile then decided to go back to 80 at idle.

I know it's probably just full of air..not worried about that or the time it takes. Just want to make sure..I am doing this right? Sorry for the long message too just want to fill in.

Oh and lines are hot and the cooling fan doesn't kick on anymore

 

[cammerfe]

A nut set down over the broken end of the bolt and a zap of mig weld to fasten nut and bolt shank together will often both heat the area and give you something solid to put a socket over. Use a six-point socket to get the best 'grab' on the nut.

KS

 

[04_Sport_LS]

That's a good idea Cam!!! Maybe I misunderstood... but I thought it broke off flush with the head.

 

[MysticMac]

I replaced all coils and plugs on my gen 2 and by removing my intake with no issues what so ever. taking everything off. I did however break a bolt on the intake on the right side near the front putting everything back on. I could see right through the bottom of the thread hole and see my finger so i was lucky that there wasnt a "bottom" on the thread ... i went to home depot and matched a bolt and grabbed a nut and havent had any issues what so ever.

if anyone (joegr) has the part number for new bolts for the gen 2 intake would be much appreciated as I know they are all different sizes and would like all new ones.

 

[amorgan2017]

I replaced all coils and plugs on my gen 2 and by removing my intake with no issues what so ever. taking everything off. I did however break a bolt on the intake on the right side near the front putting everything back on. I could see right through the bottom of the thread hole and see my finger so i was lucky that there wasnt a "bottom" on the thread ... i went to home depot and matched a bolt and grabbed a nut and havent had any issues what so ever.

if anyone (joegr) has the part number for new bolts for the gen 2 intake would be much appreciated as I know they are all different sizes and would like all new ones.

I searched for new ones and couldn't find them either. I figure I can find one local. This makes me worry even more that another will break when taking them off.

I was out in the snow storm until 3 trying to get this thing done so around 3 hours into the bleeding. Still doesn't want to stay at 90 when I drive down the road, I come back and it sit and it will start to heat up again..never had any heat at anytime before so I must of made progress?

In their bleeding process do you go through all the steps more than once? Like 5 times? Because I've already done that 4 times and a just plan revving it up forever since it builds the heat it seems.

Either way I had to quit because I had school in the morning..(canceled because of the storm now) so I get all day today to get it bled too. :Bang

 

[joegr]

I've never broken an intake bolt, and I never had to use a breaker bar to get one off. They shouldn't be in that tight. I've always done with the engine at about 80 degrees or so. If it's very cold, that might explain it.

I too thought that the bolt was even with or below the surface. Much easier if it is above.

You should only need to bleed once if (1) you follow the fill and bleed instructions exactly, and (2) the cooling system has no air leaks. If (1) is not true, then you may have to do it several times. If (2) is not true, then it's just not going to work. So far, once and done for me each time.

Bolts: -W704916-S309 for the 112.5mm M8 regular bolt ($0.60)
-W709302-S425 for the 112mm M8 + 11mm M6 dual stud (this one is no longer sold)

 

[amorgan2017]

No it's a broken down almost flush a little less so it won't be easy if I have to go the route. It is working so far with about 3 2 mile test drives. The heat of course is not..my question is this in the bleeding procedure throughout the hole thing you only open the heater bleed one time? (After you idle it for 5 minutes)? Seems odd to just do it one time..or does it mean a few times during the 5 minute span?

Also do your vents blow not so much on the right side but more on the driver? The center duct blows a lot on the left side but the right is we less..can it get plugged up?

 

[joegr]

Airflow is pretty even, slightly more in the center than the extremes.
The bleed procedure is pretty clear that you start with it open, close it, reopen it, and close it again.
http://deneau.info/ls/s6x~us~en~file=s6x33004.htm~gen~ref.htm#extract_142
If you still have leaks, it's not going to work correctly.

 

[amorgan2017]

Airflow is pretty even, slightly more in the center than the extremes.
The bleed procedure is pretty clear that you start with it open, close it, reopen it, and close it again.
http://deneau.info/ls/s6x~us~en~file=s6x33004.htm~gen~ref.htm#extract_142
If you still have leaks, it's not going to work correctly.

The center vent is not even one side blows like normal the other hardly at all. Makes me think something is plugged..can the heater core get plugged? Like if someone added a additive.

 

[04_Sport_LS]

Morgan,

Take a deep breath or 2... and take a step back. Collect your thoughts,,, then proceed. Drink a few brews if it helps you calm down, (just don't dive back into the LS if you have too many).

To me... if you get heat when revving the engine,,, either the system isn't full of coolant mix... or the system isn't completely purged of air. I have seen some cooling systems "air lock",,, preventing coolant flow... but the proper bleeding proceedure is supposed to alleviate that. Are both of your climate control heat settings all the way up to 90 degrees??? Another stupid question on my part. Are all of your vent closures all the way open??? You know,,, the rotary dial next to each vent. If so,,, it might be that the airflow difference might be a damper door malfunction you didn't notice until now.

Joe,

Is it possible that his DCCV is malfunctioning too,,, preventing fully bleeding the air out??? Just a thought. Also... are the damper doors adjusted based on temp??? Could the lesser air flow be a result of, (how do I say this properly), one of the heater cores running cold due to lack of coolant flow??? From what I understand,,, the heater cores have temp sensors.

 

[joegr]

Yes, the DCCV could be part of the problem. My understanding is that he hasn't yet replaced all the plastic at the front of the engine. I'd place a bet on that.
There are no air dampers that affect only one side.
There are no air dampers that have anything to do with temperature.
All the steps on the fiil and bleed are required, and this does include the temperature settings on the DATC.
I've never heard of the airflow getting clogged. Sometimes a temperature difference can make someone think there is more or less airflow than there really is.

Does the cooling system pressurize?

 

[amorgan2017]

Yes, the DCCV could be part of the problem. My understanding is that he hasn't yet replaced all the plastic at the front of the engine. I'd place a bet on that.
There are no air dampers that affect only one side.
There are no air dampers that have anything to do with temperature.
All the steps on the fiil and bleed are required, and this does include the temperature settings on the DATC.
I've never heard of the airflow getting clogged. Sometimes a temperature difference can make someone think there is more or less airflow than there really is.

Does the cooling system pressurize?

Ok and yes not all the plastic is replaced. I did replace the front piece where the cap mounts and the seal behind it. Everything else I was going to do with intake off which didn't happen. I will replace them if I must. Trying to avoid it at the moment.

I will gain tomorrow follow the steps exactly one more time and see if it will work.

If by pressurize you mean when I open the degas cap the coolant level rises? It does yes. No boiling are fans kicking on anymore. I think it must have a lot of air or something.

 

[amorgan2017]

Morgan,

Take a deep breath or 2... and take a step back. Collect your thoughts,,, then proceed. Drink a few brews if it helps you calm down, (just don't dive back into the LS if you have too many).

To me... if you get heat when revving the engine,,, either the system isn't full of coolant mix... or the system isn't completely purged of air. I have seen some cooling systems "air lock",,, preventing coolant flow... but the proper bleeding proceedure is supposed to alleviate that. Are both of your climate control heat settings all the way up to 90 degrees??? Another sstupid question on my part. Are all of your vent closures all the way open??? You know,,, the rotary dial next to each vent. If so,,, it might be that the airflow difference might be a damper door malfunction you didn't notice until now.

Joe,

Is it possible that his DCCV is malfunctioning too,,, preventing fully bleeding the air out??? Just a thought. Also... are the damper doors adjusted based on temp??? Could the lesser air flow be a result of, (how do I say this properly), one of the heater cores running cold due to lack of coolant flow??? From what I understand,,, the heater cores have temp sensors.

Thanks for the response I'm glad you pointed out the simple things because I never noticed the dial (opens vent) on my driver side until I had the car for 2 months. But no that's not it they're all open and both sides are at 90 degrees.

I am thinking it must have air too because if I rev it long enough I can get it to 90-95 degrees like normal. But after driving a mile it goes back down slowly.

And I can't drink legally I'm only 17 haha. Maybe that explains my ignorance lol.

 

[04_Sport_LS]

Quote Morgan:

"And I can't drink legally I'm only 17 haha. Maybe that explains my ignorance lol. "

That's ok... save your dendrites. You'll need them when you're older. Wish I still had more of mine.

Yeah... from what you are describing,,, you either already/still have air in the system... or are still sucking it in, (like Joe said).

At the same time though, (and I could very well be wrong)... it almost seems to me like coolant isn't getting where it should. Just for $hits and giggles... try lightly rapping on the DCCV solenoids,,, or cycling your DATC, (temp controls), from 60-90 a few times and see what happens.

 

[amorgan2017]

Quote Morgan:

"And I can't drink legally I'm only 17 haha. Maybe that explains my ignorance lol. "

That's ok... save your dendrites. You'll need them when you're older. Wish I still had more of mine.

Yeah... from what you are describing,,, you either already/still have air in the system... or are still sucking it in, (like Joe said).

At the same time though, (and I could very well be wrong)... it almost seems to me like coolant isn't getting where it should. Just for $hits and giggles... try lightly rapping on the DCCV solenoids,,, or cycling your DATC, (temp controls), from 60-90 a few times and see what happens.

Yeah I'll try that out I never played with it. Just tap the solenoid switch with a wrench or something? Then see if it pushes air on both sides of the center vent or is it to see if my heat will start working?

 

[joegr]

Ok and yes not all the plastic is replaced... Everything else I was going to do with intake off which didn't happen. I will replace them if I must. Trying to avoid it at the moment...

How is this not a contradiction? All of the plastic includes the pipe below the thermostat housing and crossover.

...If by pressurize you mean when I open the degas cap the coolant level rises? It does yes. No boiling are fans kicking on anymore. I think it must have a lot of air or something.

No, pressurize means pressurize. When the engine if cold, squeeze the upper radiator hose. Note how easy it is to do. Now warm the engine up fully. It should be pretty much impossible to squeeze in the upper radiator hose now, if the system pressurized.

Yeah I'll try that out I never played with it. Just tap the solenoid switch with a wrench or something? Then see if it pushes air on both sides of the center vent or is it to see if my heat will start working?

The DCCV has nothing at all to do with airflow. It controls coolant flow with control temperature.

Just a note for all of you that keep saying to "cycle" the DCCV by changing the temperature from hot to cold and back. The DCCV cycles quite a bit if you aren't always at full heat. When you turn the key off, the the DCCV is unpowered, so it goes to the full heat position on both sides. Of course, where I am full heat is almost never needed, and never needed for an entire trip. This may be different where you are.

 

[MysticMac]

Thanks Joegr. What would you suggest I use for the bolt that is no longer in prodcuction? Just go and try and match one up at my local hardware?

 

[joegr]

Thanks Joegr. What would you suggest I use for the bolt that is no longer in prodcuction? Just go and try and match one up at my local hardware?

It's the double stud that's out of production. There are two on each side which the brackets that hold the appearance cover bolt to. I'd just use the regular bolt instead. Assuming that you are only missing one or two of the stud bolts, the remaining stud bolt on each side should be enough to hold the bracket on that side.