Bush's Approval Rating Hits New High

[TheDude]

Haha, you're so full of it. I know many MORE people who are NOT religious who are morally corrupt, so put that in your pipe and smoke it. However, Bill Cliinton would definitely fall into YOUR category. You can smoke that [cigar] too.

You ever wonder if there is a direct causality between removing God and prayer from schools and schools being overrun with gangs and guns?

Duh.

Oh yes Torquemada, I'm full of it... I'm certain every Christian you know and have ever known has been the pinnacle of moral decency and every atheist is a degenerate.. Get off your alter.

No, I never wondered that and I see no correlation. They percentage of schools with gangs/guns is very low compared to schools without these problems and the majority of schools do not have prayer. DUH!

And as usual, Clinton somehow comes into this...

 

[TheDude]

You have given us a very great compilation of facts on this issue.

As much as I very much appreciate that history, in my opinion, it is precisely the separation of church and state that makes our Country as great as it is.

I agree with you completely, if we had a government based on any religion we'd have troubles up the wazoo. What I find the most amusing; the holy whack-nuts in here that cry about having more God in the government and more God in our schools only want their version of God in the government and schools. If someone where to try and impose Islam or Buddism into our government/schools they'd be the first to cry foul.

 

[TheDude]

Liberalism included.

That's a religion?

 

[Calabrio]

That's a religion?

It's certainly faith based.

 

[TheDude]

I'm not sure where the quote came from but it looks as though it’s a call to Christians to reject immorality and to vote for government representatives that are willing to promote traditional values. I don't understand why voting for pro-Christian or traditional values candidates is mixing government and religion, certainly as it pertains to the so-called "separation of church and state" doctrine.

That was Adolf Hitler circa 1928(or so)... Take a look throughout history, when religion (any religion) is allowed to play a key role and dictate the workings of a government, bad things happen even when the best intentions are had. Religion to Government is like Oil to Water.

Because voting for a pro-Christian candidate that will impose laws and sanctions based on his own personal religious beliefs would me mixing religion and government. Would you vote for a pro-Islam candidate that would impose his religious views into our government? What if one did get voted in and he tried to pass a law were women had to cover their faces as per his religious beliefs? You'd be pissed as would I.

 

[TheDude]

It's certainly faith based.

Wouldn't it be more of an ideology and philosophy just like conservatism?

 

[fossten]

Wouldn't it be more of an ideology and philosophy just like conservatism?

Liberalism resembles humanism, which in turn reflects atheism, which IS a religious belief system, despite any assertions to the contrary. It requires faith, has a god, a church, a following, and a belief system that replaces all those of Christianity. Abortion is its holy sacrament, and the Supreme Court Justices of the 60s were its high priests. Its goal is to eliminate God from every aspect of American life and replace it with the State.

 

[TheDude]

Liberalism resembles humanism, which in turn reflects atheism, which IS a religious belief system, despite any assertions to the contrary. It requires faith, has a god, a church, a following, and a belief system that replaces all those of Christianity. Abortion is its holy sacrament, and the Supreme Court Justices of the 60s were its high priests. Its goal is to eliminate God from every aspect of American life and replace it with the State.

Atheist have a God? Atheism is in itself the belief of no God or greater power exist. Not all liberals are pro-abortion and pro-choice advocates stand on the 'personal freedoms of the individual' not any sort of religous 'holy sacrament'. I can't comment on your 'goal to eliminate God' since I have no idea were you get that from, unless of course you see the opposition to having any single religion forced down peoples throats as an attempt to eliminate God?

Liberalism just like Conservatism is an ideology/philosophy, except the facts.

 

[TheDude]

President George Washington, September 17th, 1796
"It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible

Patrick Henry
"It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded not by religionists but by Christians, not on religion but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. We shall not fight alone. God presides over the destinies of nations."

Benjamin Franklin Address at the Constitutional Convention Thursday June 28, 1787
"I have lived, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth -- that God Governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid?

President John Adams
"The highest story of the American Revolution is this: it connected in one indissoluble bond the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity."

"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."

President Thomas Jefferson
"The reason that Christianity is the best friend of Government is because Christianity is the only religion that changes the heart."

President John Quincy Adams
"It is no slight testimonial, both to the merit and worth of Christianity, that in all ages since its promulgation the great mass of those who have risen to eminence by their profound wisdom and integrity have recognized and reverenced Jesus of Nazareth as the Son of the living God."

John Jay, 1777 The first Chief Justice of the United States
"Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and the interest, of a Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers."

James Madison
"We have staked the whole future of American civilization not upon the power of government, far from it. We have staked the future of all our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government, upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments."

Shall I continue?
*owned*

Hmmm... Does the Constitution mention Jesus? Does it even mention God, any God? Simple facts that religious wing nuts need to learn, America was not, is not and hopefully will never be governed by religion, any religion.

James Madison, In 1785 he wrote, "What have been [Christianity’s] fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution.”
Sounds like me was a bit of an Atheist or at least a bit disenfranchised by religion.

Thomas Jefferson, In a letter to John Adams in 1823, he wrote: "The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus…will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter."
&
Thomas Jefferson 1814 "The whole history of these books is so defective and doubtful -- evidence that parts have proceeded from an extraordinary man; and that other parts are of the fabric of very inferior minds.”
Is Jefferson mocking Christianity???

George Washington, 1796 "The Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian Religion.”
What could he mean by that?

 

[TheDude]

Congratulations stang99x !!!

May I say that that is the biggest ownage I have seen on this site. Great references. Just a great post and really lays claim to the conservative doctrine of Church AND State.

Bravo.

Biggest ownage if the Constitution ever has or had mentioned God, Jesus and/or Christianity. :N

Simplely put, the forefathers had the insight and intelligence to have a religion neutral government and I think deep down inside you know that.

 

[stang99x]

President George Washington, September 17th, 1796
"It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible

George Washington, 1796 "The Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian Religion.”

I guess what he meant was, that he was the first political flip flopper and thats where Kerry learned his trade

 

[Calabrio]

Biggest ownage if the Constitution ever has or had mentioned God, Jesus and/or Christianity. :N

Simplely put, the forefathers had the insight and intelligence to have a religion neutral government and I think deep down inside you know that.

A secular government, run by a religious, specifically a moral, society.

Both of those two elements are crucial.

 

[Vitas]

Simplely put, the forefathers had the insight and intelligence to have a religion neutral government and I think deep down inside you know that.

"religion neutral government "

Bingo.

In a legal sense. In a moral sense is a separate, included, issue.

 

[rmac694203]

It's funny how so many people go to church once a week and think that makes them moral or good. I have never gone to church my whole life (besides weddings, etc.) and I bet I did less "bad" things than many of my friends who were forced to go to church every week. I think that religion is the biggest waste of time. And if you are religious, good for you. But don't try to tell me that the government, or country, need to be religious, or christian, to be great. I bet politicians wish they could confess away all their wrongdoings like Catholics. What a joke.

 

[TheDude]

It's funny how so many people go to church once a week and think that makes them moral or good. I have never gone to church my whole life (besides weddings, etc.) and I bet I did less "bad" things than many of my friends who were forced to go to church every week. I think that religion is the biggest waste of time. And if you are religious, good for you. But don't try to tell me that the government, or country, need to be religious, or christian, to be great. I bet politicians wish they could confess away all their wrongdoings like Catholics. What a joke.

Dude, you're so going to hell for that...

 

[MAllen82]

It's funny how so many people go to church once a week and think that makes them moral or good. I have never gone to church my whole life (besides weddings, etc.) and I bet I did less "bad" things than many of my friends who were forced to go to church every week. I think that religion is the biggest waste of time. And if you are religious, good for you. But don't try to tell me that the government, or country, need to be religious, or christian, to be great. I bet politicians wish they could confess away all their wrongdoings like Catholics. What a joke.

So religious people need to stop telling you about their faith, but it's ok for you to tell me that my religion is a joke? I really don't get offended by much, but your comment has brought me out a a very long period of silence. I would love for that to be edited out, but if management thinks it's ok to leave that in, then so be it.

Your problem is that you are just like every religious zealot out there. You mistakenly think that you are more enlightened than us. And don't try to deny that, because when you say that something is a joke, you are basically implying that you know better.

And please no one get me wrong, because I don't EVER push my beliefs on anyone. And if you don't believe in my beliefs, that's fine. All I ask out of people is that they be ethical at the very least. But to sit there and think that you are enlightened because you knew a guy who was a Christian(being forced to go to church doesn't make someone a christian by the way) and he was a bad guy.... gimme a break. 95DevilleNS is right, you are going to hell, and you will be right next to all the "religious" who just got it wrong.

 

[decibels5]

It's funny how so many people go to church once a week and think that makes them moral or good. I have never gone to church my whole life (besides weddings, etc.) and I bet I did less "bad" things than many of my friends who were forced to go to church every week. I think that religion is the biggest waste of time. And if you are religious, good for you. But don't try to tell me that the government, or country, need to be religious, or christian, to be great. I bet politicians wish they could confess away all their wrongdoings like Catholics. What a joke.

i agree to a point, but saying religion is a waste of time is purely a poor opinion on your part. no one has the right to make that statement. i do agree with the first statement though. i have come across many people like that. that is why i choose not to go to the church of my choice yet. i will go when i believe i am ready to 100% follow the path. as far as politics and church being mixed, lets just thank our government that they dont believe in the same extreme sh1t as osama, hitler, hussein and all the rest of those crazy bastards.

 

[fossten]

It's funny how so many people go to church once a week and think that makes them moral or good. I have never gone to church my whole life (besides weddings, etc.) and I bet I did less "bad" things than many of my friends who were forced to go to church every week. I think that religion is the biggest waste of time. And if you are religious, good for you. But don't try to tell me that the government, or country, need to be religious, or christian, to be great. I bet politicians wish they could confess away all their wrongdoings like Catholics. What a joke.

Your biggest mistake is comparing yourself to other people. It's what everybody does. God doesn't look at it that way. Problem is, we're all flawed and sinners in God's eyes, so in the end you won't be measured against anything but God's Law. Having already admitted guilt in your last post, you have a destiny - you will fall under judgment just like everyone else.

 

[rmac694203]

By saying it's a waste of time, I meant to me. If you go to church, that's fine, but it's your time is yours to spend. It's the same way I'd say someone who, say, has an odd hobby is wasting their time. I just don't get it. And as far as it being a joke, I was referring more to the way that politicians lie, cheat, etc. The point I am trying to make is that people are saying that without christianity, religion, whatever, our country is doomed. And I totally disagree with that. And I figure I'll catch a bunch of crap, but that's fine.

 

[Mick Jagger]

Separation of church and state, by definition, was intended to keep government out of religion, not to keep religion out of government.

I thought the object was to exempt religion from civil authority because religion was under God's jurisdiction.

 

[fossten]

I see we have a celebrity in our midst.

Haven't you heard that noobs should not necro?

 

[shagdrum]

I thought the object was to exempt religion from civil authority because religion was under God's jurisdiction.

Not so much. The religious clauses were are direct reaction to Britian at the time. The Framers didn't want a "Church of America" that forced people to follow that religion and church and prohibited people from following other religions. There were really going for "freedom of religion", not "freedom from religion" as it has been distorted to mean today.

Pastors, priests, etc. are all still subject to the law. They can't go out and kill someone.

 

[MAC1]

If not for the Iraq War Bush would have a high approval rating. His rating was brought down by democrat complaining which appears to not have help them much in the all important presidential race. If anything, it hurt them because a lot of Americans took note of how democrats sacrificed national security and put our military at greater risk in the name of politics. Republicans aren't that great either but democrats overplayed their hand with war politics and Bush bashing.

 

[Mick Jagger]

I see we have a celebrity in our midst.

Haven't you heard that noobs should not necro?

I'm from Texas, dude. I do as I please.

 

[Mick Jagger]

Not so much. The religious clauses were are direct reaction to Britian at the time.

Read the preamble to the Bill of Rights. It states the reasons for and spirit of the Amendments.

The Framers didn't want a "Church of America" that forced people to follow that religion and church and prohibited people from following other religions.

Dude, the framers totally excluded religion from the cognizance of the federal authorities. Religion, as the word is used in the Constitution means "the duty we owe our Creator and the methods of discharging it." It does not mean "a Church of America."

There were really going for "freedom of religion", not "freedom from religion"

.

Freedom of religion means freedom from human authority over religion and especially civil authority.

as it has been distorted to mean today

Distorted? How? When? By whom?

Pastors, priests, etc. are all still subject to the law. They can't go out and kill someone.

I thought they still had "benefit of clergy."