Codes P0430 & P0304. Any help resolving these would be greatly appreciated.

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ErnieG22

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Hi, '02 LSE V8...I fixed my overheating issue, but now I'm pulling codes P0430 & P0304. Regarding the misfire code, is it likely a coil? Or bad spark plug? Or both?

Regarding P0430, is it likely the O2 sensor on bank 2?

Also, my car didn't start last night after watching a movie. I went back to jump it and it fired up right away. I had the battery, alternator and starter checked today and they all tested good. Any idea why it wouldn't start? I went thru some deeep water the night prior after a heavy downpour of rain, not sure if that has anything to do with it not starting. But it fired up today no problem.

Thank you for your time.
 
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ErnieG22 said:
View attachment 828569146 View attachment 828569147 Hi, fixed my overheating issue, but now I'm pulling codes P0430 & P0304. Regarding the misfire code, is it likely a coil? Or bad spark plug? Or both?

Regarding P0430, is it likely the O2 sensor on bank 2?

Also, my car didn't start last night after watching a movie. I went back to jump it and it fired up right away. I had the battery, alternator and starter checked today and they all tested good. Any idea why it wouldn't start? I went thru some deeep water the night prior after a heavy downpour of rain, not sure if that has anything to do with it not starting. But it fired up today no problem.

Thank you for your time.
Click to expand...
Some of the more senior members will chime in I'm sure and give you conformation on what I think happens when you have a Coil over plug and spark plug misfire but I think I heard one of the engineers on here say that if you have a misfire on a plug you will also more than likely get a code for a catylistic bank code also due to them having some kind of relation....like I said I'm sure if My memory doesn't serve me right with this response I'll be corrected...Pretty sure when I had a misfire on cylinder 4 I also had that same code for bank 2 also...Most will tell you to replace all eight COP's and spark plugs but if you choose not to by all means make sure to change both the cylinder 4 COP and plug together...all my best
 
AmsterDutch said:
Some of the more senior members will chime in I'm sure and give you conformation on what I think happens when you have a Coil over plug and spark plug misfire but I think I heard one of the engineers on here say that if you have a misfire on a plug you will also more than likely get a code for a catylistic bank code also due to them having some kind of relation....like I said I'm sure if My memory doesn't serve me right with this response I'll be corrected...Pretty sure when I had a misfire on cylinder 4 I also had that same code for bank 2 also...Most will tell you to replace all eight COP's and spark plugs but if you choose not to by all means make sure to change both the cylinder 4 COP and plug together...all my best
Click to expand...
Did you use motorcraft coils? Or an aftermarket coil? I was thinking about NGK...they're $14 cheaper per coil.
 
When you are having a problem, such as misfire, replace the coil and the spark plug at the same time. Make sure the gap is set to 1.0mm exactly.
It could be an 02 sensor, but I think think that it will be. It's more likely that the code is correct and that cat is shot due to running too long (doesn't take long) with misfires. Motorcraft only, on the coils.
 
Misfiring has been going on too long and is ruining the catalytic converter.
He could attempt to replace the downstream O2 sensor but that's same as shooting the messenger. It's only doing it's job and reporting that the CAT is below efficiency threshold.

Myself, I wouldn't focus on the downstream error just yet but rather complete the following steps first.

1) Replace all Coils with OEM Ford brand.
2) Replace all plugs with NGK Iridiums. (verify proper gap)
3) Replace fuel filter inside drivers wheel well.
4) Replace Air breather element. (filter)
5) Clean Mass Air Flow sensor.

6) Full bottle of STP fuel injector cleaner in full fresh hi octance tank of fuel.

7) Reset and clear DTC codes using OBDII tool.

Fix the misfire first, see if the Catalyst DTC returns.


In a quick tinny nutshell ... you coils are old and tired, weak and misfiring, it's refered to as "Marginal Failing Coils", while it misfires, it dumps raw fuel into the CAT's. This is not good!

If indeed a V8 (was not mentioned), and I'm only presuming so due to cylinder 4 misfire code, you need to be aware that Marginal failing coils, specifically #4 which is closest to the PCM, will and can destroy your PCM from RFI. It can and will also throw it into ETC fail safe limp home mode (GEN 2). At such time it will store false Throttle Body and Position sensor DTC's (codes). It has nothing to do with anything Throttle Body related (GEN 2). It's the PCM puking on itself because it's getting a jolt through it's circuitry from RFI (Radio Frequency Interference). The PCM is not shielded enough and coil 4 is close to the point when it misfires badly, it sends current distortion to the nearby PCM.

Before PCM and/or CAT's are destroyed, you need to RE&Re all coils and plugs immediately.
There is no way around this and it needs to be done properly not some half fast job with only replacing one or two coils with a few fresh plugs. The whole thing needs a refresh for success. You can try aftermarket cheaper coils if you want but I wouldn't recommend it.

Also do take the time to investigate why coil 4 is misfiring. The Lincoln LS is well known for issues related to coil shorting from either rain water, washer fluid or oil getting down into the plug wells.


SEARCH is your friend, I've documented troubleshooting this issue and posted RE&RE articles all throughout this forum. I can dig them up for you if you are having troubles with the search function of this forum.


Need to state year and engine when asking for assistance going forth.


GLWR

.
 
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joegr said:
When you are having a problem, such as misfire, replace the coil and the spark plug at the same time. Make sure the gap is set to 1.0mm exactly.
It could be an 02 sensor, but I think think that it will be. It's more likely that the code is correct and that cat is shot due to running too long (doesn't take long) with misfires. Motorcraft only, on the coils.
Click to expand...
Thank you, Joegr!
 
RigsLS said:
Misfiring has been going on too long and is ruining the catalytic converter.
He could attempt to replace the downstream O2 sensor but that's same as shooting the messenger. It's only doing it's job and reporting that the CAT is below efficiency threshold.

Myself, I wouldn't focus on the downstream error just yet but rather complete the following steps first.

1) Replace all Coils with OEM Ford brand.
2) Replace all plugs with NGK Iridiums. (verify proper gap)
3) Replace fuel filter inside drivers wheel well.
4) Replace Air breather element. (filter)
5) Clean Mass Air Flow sensor.

6) Full bottle of STP fuel injector cleaner in full fresh hi octance tank of fuel.

7) Reset and clear DTC codes using OBDII tool.

Fix the misfire first, see if the Catalyst DTC returns.


In a quick tinny nutshell ... you coils are old and tired, weak and misfiring, it's refered to as "Marginal Failing Coils", while it misfires, it dumps raw fuel into the CAT's. This is not good!

If indeed a V8 (was not mentioned), and I'm only presuming so due to cylinder 4 misfire code, you need to be aware that Marginal failing coils, specifically #4 which is closest to the PCM, will and can destroy your PCM from RFI. It can and will also throw it into ETC fail safe limp home mode (GEN 2). At such time it will store false Throttle Body and Position sensor DTC's (codes). It has nothing to do with anything Throttle Body related (GEN 2). It's the PCM puking on itself because it's getting a jolt through it's circuitry from RFI (Radio Frequency Interference). The PCM is not shielded enough and coil 4 is close to the point when it misfires badly, it sends current distortion to the nearby PCM.

Before PCM and/or CAT's are destroyed, you need to RE&Re all coils and plugs immediately.
There is no way around this and it needs to be done properly not some half fast job with only replacing one or two coils with a few fresh plugs. The whole thing needs a refresh for success. You can try aftermarket cheaper coils if you want but I wouldn't recommend it.

Also do take the time to investigate why coil 4 is misfiring. The Lincoln LS is well known for issues related to coil shorting from either rain water, washer fluid or oil getting down into the plug wells.


SEARCH is you're friend, I've documented troubleshooting this issue and posted RE&RE articles all throughout this forum. I can dig them up for you if you are having troubles with the search function of this forum.


Need to state year and engine when asking for assistance going forth.


GLWR

.
Click to expand...
02'LSE V8. Thank you for your time and detailed information.
 
02 = 1st GEN, you not need worry about ETC failsafe mode then (2nd GEN only).

00-02 = 1st GEN LS = Throttle by Wire (mechanical).
03-06 = 2nd GEN LS = Electronic Throttle Control

Still same distorting concept, #4 closest to not shielded enough PCM.
Other failing coils can irritate the PCM also but #4 is closest and will send biggest jolt.
 
Do take a look at this here article,

Re&Re - Wiper Arm Shaft Cowl Seal


You have to be certain, rain water or washer fluid is not getting down past your coil covers into the plug wells past the coil boots.

Also, when you remove the coils, do not just simply pull the spark plug out without looking down into the plug well and look for oil.

Water, washer fluid or oil can find it's way down past the boot and puddle at the bottom, you pull the plug out with all that in there and guess what happens!

If you find oil down around the plug you'll need to do a Valve Cover gasket repair, which is relative easy on the 1st GEN compared to the 2nd GEN.

It's not so much the outside gaskets that leak but more so the inner plug well rubber O-ring gaskets that leak oil directly into the plug wells causing shorting of the coils.

Boots crack and coils just get old and tired. Aftermarket replacement coils tend to fail more often and quicker.

There are some members that have had good success with cheaper aftermarket coils but I can not from any personal experience recommend such.

The OEM DG529 coils for the V8 are indeed a little pricey per unit but they simply work and will last for at least 10yr/100K mi.

.
 
RigsLS said:
Do take a look at this here article,

Re&Re - Wiper Arm Shaft Cowl Seal


You have to be certain, rain water or washer fluid is not getting down past your coil covers into the plug wells past the coil boots.

Also, when you remove the coils, do not just simply pull the spark plug out without looking down into the plug well and look for oil.

Water, washer fluid or oil can find it's way down past the boot and puddle at the bottom, you pull the plug out with all that in there and guess what happens!

If you find oil down around the plug you'll need to do a Valve Cover gasket repair, which is relative easy on the 1st GEN compared to the 2nd GEN.

It's not so much the outside gaskets that leak but more so the inner plug well rubber O-ring gaskets that leak oil directly into the plug wells causing shorting of the coils.

Boots crack and coils just get old and tired. Aftermarket replacement coils tend to fail more often and quicker.

There are some members that have had good success with cheaper aftermarket coils but I can not from any personal experience recommend such.

The OEM DG529 coils for the V8 are indeed a little pricey per unit but they simply work and will last for at least 10yr/100K mi.

.
Click to expand...
Will do. Thanks, RigsLS!
 
To check the back few cylinders for gunk down the well, you can use a small mirror and a flashlight. Once the coils are off, it will be easy to look down into the wells on the few front cylinders but the few at the back not so much. Flashlight on a small mirror angled just correctly will let you see down into the well around the plug.

If it is extreme and there is contaminates down there, pulling the plug out would allow all that crap to run right down into the cylinder and then your next new set of coils and plugs +exhaust cam would have to chew through that out into the CAT's and out the tail pipe.

Try and avoid such.

If any cleanup needed, w/ screw driver, poking some paper-toweling down and around until soaked up.


Probably not the issue, coils just old and need replacing along with fresh plugs but the point is to not just pull spark plugs out blindly without knowing what surrounds the bottom.

Preference is to keep the top of piston and chambers clean.
 
RigsLS said:
To check the back few cylinders for gunk down the well, you can use a small mirror and a flashlight. Once the coils are off, it will be easy to look down into the wells on the few front cylinders but the few at the back not so much. Flashlight on a small mirror angled just correctly will let you see down into the well around the plug.

If it is extreme and there is contaminates down there, pulling the plug out would allow all that crap to run right down into the cylinder and then your next new set of coils and plugs +exhaust cam would have to chew through that out into the CAT's and out the tail pipe.

Try and avoid such.

If any cleanup needed, w/ screw driver, poking some paper-toweling down and around until soaked up.


Probably not the issue, coils just old and need replacing along with fresh plugs but the point is to not just pull spark plugs out blindly without knowing what surrounds the bottom.

Preference is to keep the top of piston and chambers clean.
Click to expand...
Awesome advice and instructions. Do I need to purchase new boots or do they come with the new coils?
 
OEM comes with them.

Have seen some aftermarket brand sell just the coils, no boots. Many sold as whole units.

DISCLAIMER: I'm not advocating anything else other then OEM DG529 coils.
 
RigsLS said:
OEM comes with them.

Have seen some aftermarket brand sell just the coils, no boots. Many sold as whole units.

DISCLAIMER: I'm not advocating anything else other then OEM DG529 coils.
Click to expand...

OEM used to come with them! Now they are being sold separately by Ford. If you get old stock, the boots will be there. If you get new, you'll have to order the boots separately. They did reduce the coil price slightly to reflect this.
 
Interesting as majority of times boots are reusable which results in only having to buy the coil itself.

Was not aware, obviously as of recent this change.

+1
 
Forgot to mention,
pick up a small tube of Di-Electric grease. When you are ready to install the new coils, take a dime size of this Di-Electric grease on your fingertip and shove it down the end of the boot. The end which you'd push down the well first, the part that seals the spark plug. This will act as a plug-to-boot sealant and keep dust/dirt/contaminates out. Ensures a nice clean contact for the top of the spark plug to the spring of the coil. Good clean solid connection from Coil to Plug.

Another thing, at the very back of the coil covers, you'll notice the main harness for the coils going in. When you redo this all, you'd want to add a little black silicone gasket maker at that bridge so as to seal it all up and protect it from anything water related to get back in there. OEM factory from the assembly plant had done so as well. You'd just need to redo it a bit.

You can see the white/beige inline gasket when you flip the coil covers upside down. At the back towards the firewall, you'd note where the Main Coil harness comes in. We'd want ensure we're all sealed up when the covers go back on.

Do not crank the shit out of the coil cover bolts. Hand tight then a quarter turn to the right. These are not something that can even stand over-torquing, it will pull the downfastened nut loose and rotate it. Then you have to deal with that and it's not needed. Just gently tighten the coil cover hardware. It's only a plastic cover with an inlay gasket that just needs to keep the coils dry and clean. Easy does it.


- Spark plugs
Joe already mentioned this.

Yes - they tend to come pre-gapped when you buy them but don't always trust this concept.
You'd have to be about as dumb as a rock if you just blindly installed plugs without taking a few extra minutes, using feeler gauges and verifying the gap. You'll find, they are out slightly and could always use an adjustment to get them all the same.

plug.png



Myself I'd even tighten them up just a touch past recommended spec.
It calls for 1.0mm gapping. I'd go 0.975-.980mm (a bunny pubic hair or two less)

As the plug ages the gap from the ground to centre electrodes wears down and widens the gap.
Keeping the gap tight ensures a good solid park as it wears out over the years.


- Coil connector wiring clips
GENTLE with these things, they've become brittle somewhat while encased inside a cover with all that excessive engine heat cycling over the years. Be sure to handle them gently or they will break instantly. A little Di-Electric grease inside the connector wouldn't hurt either. Ensure you hear/feel the click when you put each one back onto the coils. GENTLE !!!




.
 
RigsLS said:
Forgot to mention,
pick up a small tube of Di-Electric grease. When you are ready to install the new coils, take a dime size of this Di-Electric grease on your fingertip and shove it down the end of the boot. The end which you'd push down the well first, the part that seals the spark plug. This will act as a plug-to-boot sealant and keep dust/dirt/contaminates out. Ensures a nice clean contact for the top of the spark plug to the spring of the coil. Good clean solid connection from Coil to Plug.

Another thing, at the very back of the coil covers, you'll notice the main harness for the coils going in. When you redo this all, you'd want to add a little black silicone gasket maker at that bridge so as to seal it all up and protect it from anything water related to get back in there. OEM factory from the assembly plant had done so as well. You'd just need to redo it a bit.

You can see the white/beige inline gasket when you flip the coil covers upside down. At the back towards the firewall, you'd note where the Main Coil harness comes in. We'd want ensure we're all sealed up when the covers go back on.

Do not crank the shit out of the coil cover bolts. Hand tight then a quarter turn to the right. These are not something that can even stand over-torquing, it will pull the downfastened nut loose and rotate it. Then you have to deal with that and it's not needed. Just gently tighten the coil cover hardware. It's only a plastic cover with an inlay gasket that just needs to keep the coils dry and clean. Easy does it.


- Spark plugs
Joe already mentioned this.

Yes - they tend to come pre-gapped when you buy them but don't always trust this concept.
You'd have to be about as dumb as a rock if you just blindly installed plugs without taking a few extra minutes, using feeler gauges and verifying the gap. You'll find, they are out slightly and could always use an adjustment to get them all the same.

View attachment 828569160


Myself I'd even tighten them up just a touch past recommended spec.
It calls for 1.0mm gapping. I'd go 0.975-.980mm (a bunny pubic hair or two less)

As the plug ages the gap from the ground to centre electrodes wears down and widens the gap.
Keeping the gap tight ensures a good solid park as it wears out over the years.


- Coil connector wiring clips
GENTLE with these things, they've become brittle somewhat while encased inside a cover with all that excessive engine heat cycling over the years. Be sure to handle them gently or they will break instantly. A little Di-Electric grease inside the connector wouldn't hurt either. Ensure you hear/feel the click when you put each one back onto the coils. GENTLE !!!




.
Click to expand...
Very informative! Thanks again, RigsLS
 
I just tried to start my car to head out to the gym and it's not starting. Same thing occurred a few days ago on Saturday night a day after driving through some deep rain water. But, it's been starting fine since then. As I stated previously, I had the battery, alternator and starter tested on Sunday and they tested good. Any ideas what could be the issue? Thank you.
 
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The car doesn't make any sound when turning key. Dash lights come on and then go blank. Codes have not returned since I reset them Saturday evening. I checked the oil and I don't see any water. I checked the air filter and no water. I did however notice a liquid seeping from the seam of a plastic housing next to the air filter.
 
Turn your headlights on. Do they dim when you attempt to start it? What is the PATS light (red light, center, top of the dash) doing when you attempt to start it?
 
joegr said:
Turn your headlights on. Do they dim when you attempt to start it? What is the PATS light (red light, center, top of the dash) doing when you attempt to start it?
Click to expand...
I can't tell if they actually dim when starting, but they are dimmer than usual when on. As soon as I turn the key the entire instrument cluster goes blank, so nothing happens with the PATS light.
 
ErnieG22 said:
I can't tell if they actually dim when starting, but they are dimmer than usual when on. As soon as I turn the key the entire instrument cluster goes blank, so nothing happens with the PATS light.
Click to expand...
Update: I attempted to start the car again just to see and sure enough it started. Let sit for a few minutes and then it wouldn't start.
 
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