cruel and unusual

There is sometimes more than meets the eye...


Bone scan

A bone scan performed one year after her 1990 injury showed, according to the radiologist who evaluated it, that Mrs. Schiavo had suffered prior traumatic injuries to multiple ribs (on both sides), to both sacroiliac joints, both knees, both ankles, several thoracic vertebrae, and to her right thigh, in addition to a minor compression fracture of the L1 vertebra. Mrs. Schiavo's family did not know of the existence of this scan until November 2002, 12 years after her brain damage and entry into an incapacitated state. Forensic pathologist Dr. Michael Baden, provided with the scan but not with her history, suggested that physical trauma, specifically a head injury, probably caused Mrs. Schiavo's collapse, though in a later interview, after learning her history, he agreed that the bulimia/hypokalemia explanation was also possible. The trauma is consistent with her cardiac arrest, fall, CPR attempts and eventual resuscitation. Upon becoming aware of the bone scan report possibly suggesting previous abuse, the Schindlers petitioned the Pinellas-Pasco Circuit Court for a full evidentiary hearing to evaluate the new evidence. On November 22, 2002, probate judge George Greer denied the motion, stating that the issue of trauma 12 years earlier was irrelevant to the current case.

Now, if you thought that your daughter had potentially been beaten into a coma, or however you would like to look at it, you might be able to understand why they have fought so vigorously over the last several years. To find out about the scan 12 years later seems a bit odd, doesn't it? Maybe, just maybe, Mr. Schaivo has had something to hide. I'm not saying he has, just speculating for pure enjoyment and harrassment sake, but it is something to ponder.
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barry2952 said:
Another thing that people don't understand about her husband is that he made sure she had the best care from day 1.

I am sure he is a great guy, and from all indications he is, but in the interest of continuing to agitate (this thread is starting to be fun), maybe he has had a guilty conscience from day 1.
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Not saying he does, but wouldn't that be an interesting little twist.

Again, I just like to look at all sides of an issue.

Personally, the plug should have been pulled over a decade ago. That's what I would have done. I my case, I know for a fact (in writing) my wife doesn't want to hang around. The second her organs can be harvested, she wants them gone so they can do good for someone else. Same for me. I just pitty the poor guy that gets my liver.
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Another load of crap. If you look at my x-rays you would swear you were looking at an abused person. Did she mountain bike or ski or play sports? They could have been injuries suffered from falling down drunk. You ever do that?

You're reaching for straws just like a true Bushie. Or is that Bushy?
 
Like my wife has said. The time to pull the plug would have been 6 months after the incident, not 8 YEARS later. Her parents have accepted her for how she is and they love and care for her daily, if allowed. Why doesn't Mr. Schaivo take the 1 mil, 5 mil, 10 mil or whatever he has been offered and give that money to her parents and let them take of her.

Unless you can read her mind (if there is one), who really knows what she wants. All I know is that it is wrong to cut of the parents at this stage. Mr. Schaivo is the a s s hole for putting her parents thru this.

Barry, I see you referred to my comments as 'reaching at straws' but I get the distinct feeling that if this were a murder case, and then the 'bone scan' info popped up, you may not be able to determine without the benefit of the doubt that maybe some abuse DID occur. Maybe he demanded his wife to be a skinny as a rail an caused her condition. I personally know guys like that. This could what we are dealing with. Humm.

I got a definition for ya Johhny...

Moron: Not knowing what you don't know.
 
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But it's not a murder case so it's irrelevant information.
 
barry2952 said:
But it's not a murder case so it's irrelevant information.
I know it's not a murder case but the injuries occured at or around the time of the brain injury. That in itself should lead to suspicion. I wonder if it was ever looked into as a potential abuse case. Just wondering aloud.
 
I thought I'd never see the day in my life when Jesse Jackson and MonsterMark would be on the same team. Did time stand still or what?

Jesse Jackson: "I feel so passionate about this injustice being done, how unnecessary it is to deny her a feeding tube, water, not even ice to be used for her parched lips," he said. "This is a moral issue and it transcends politics and family disputes."

What da ya think Barry? The 'ol Jesse Jackson to the rescue. The libs must be going insane!:Bang
 
barry2952 said:
But it's not a murder case so it's irrelevant information.

No it's not, but ther are some oddities about this that raise interesting lines of speculation. Such as the contention that Terri had decided to leave her husband, who was considered to be a control freak, and went home to take care of business then was found incapacitated. If she had been killed outright, murder investigation, put into the hospital, poor suffering husband.

And if Terri truly wished to avoid life prolonging efforts why does this only come out fifteen years later? Who did she communicate this to? When?, How?

And if the courts say she should die they could at least give her as good of a send off as a child rapist or a terminally ill pet. Shame on these judges, I treat my dogs better than this.
 
barry2952 said:
Dont you feel like an a$$hole now?
No, not really.

I'll stand by my contention that this guy may not be who he seems. That's all.



And The Truth Shall Set You Free! (Jim Carrey)
 
mach8 said:
And if Terri truly wished to avoid life prolonging efforts why does this only come out fifteen years later? Who did she communicate this to? When?, How?

Read up....... (link courtesy of KBob)

http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/infopage.html

There is a link to the court document where it was determined what Terri's wishes were.

MonsterMark said:
Mrs. Schiavo's family did not know of the existence of this scan until November 2002, 12 years after her brain damage and entry into an incapacitated state.

The Shindlers were fighting this long before this date. In fact, the event that sparked the falling-out between Michael Schiavo and the Shindlers was when Mr. Schiavo refused to give them money from the malpractice settlement, which they were NOT entitled to. This makes the motives of the Shindlers much more suspicious than any supposed "abuse" theory that was initially based on incomplete information (as stated in the remainder of your quote above). It's unfortunate that the Shindlers, the media and the public continue to ignore the facts.

Poetic Justice: Allowing these self-rightous, right-wing radicals to give Terri water or ice, watch her drown to death because she can't swallow, then watch them get jailed and sued up the A S S for wrongfull death.
 
I speculate that you beat your wife Bryan. I have as much proof as you do about their relationship.
 
I see it like this.

Nobody here, nor the general public, knows the true story as far as her real condition.

With that being the case I dont think we can meaningfully debate whether its murder or not, just or unjust. We just dont know her real condition.

I have been through similar situations twice in the last year. On both occasions I had to make the decision on whether to discontinue supportive measures and treatment. I can tell you it isnt an easy decision to make, and one that weighs heavily on the one making it.

From a legal and governmental perspective - I am quite dismayed that this has become such a political issue. I personally am quite dissappointed that GW has involved himself to such a large extent in this issue. Millions of our tax dollars have been spent by our government on this situation. And congress is no better. Trying to subpeona her just so she has too be supported to appear is completely wrong. I am amazed and ashamed at their attempt to sidestep the courts, who all the way up the road have ruled in the husband's favor.

Legally, the husband is the next of kin, and the one to make the decision. End of story as far as I am concerned. He has the support of her Doctors. WHo the hell are we to second guess?
 
barry2952 said:
I speculate that you beat your wife Bryan. I have as much proof as you do about their relationship.
Well, if she wound up in the hospital looking as if she had been thrown down the stairs, you might be correct in wanting to speculate.

I am just being the devil's advocate here. (If you can believe that). Was all the money really spent as suggested or did the Schindlers have a reason to suspect he might be siphoning off some of the funds. Like you said, I don't know, I wasn't there. I guess you can call that 'speculating'.
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MonsterMark said:
'speculating'.
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More like fabricating. The $700,000 was put in trust and was handled by an outside concern. What he did with his money is irrelevent.

Instead of playing devil's advocate how about spending the time doing some real research into this story so you can comment intelligently.

I still think you should feel like an a$$hole for making unfounded allegations. I can just imagine how Bryan would react if accused of abusing his wife.

Hey Bryan,

Are you still beating your wife?
 
barry2952 said:
Are you still beating your wife?
Only with my rhythm stick and as often as I can.
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And I certainly am not the one to make unfounded allegations. The Schindler family has been looking into the 'bone scan' issue since they found out about it 12 years after the fact. Of course, Michael is so upstanding in your mind it is easy to see how it could slip his mind that the bone scan revealed that she looked like she was hit by a train. No need to tell the parents that though.

Maybe you could check into whether those type of injuries could have been created by a simple fall. Enquiring minds want to know.

82% of people surveyed still don't feel they have all the facts. I'm just following the scent.
 
the bone scan revealed that she looked like she was hit by a train.

Nice analogy brian

I fell off my four wheeler and it looked kinda the same. Or should i say my woman beat me off my four wheeler until i was in a coma.

You should suspect the schindlers for ouside interest just as you suspect her husband. Im not saying i love in laws, but as you said get the story from both sides. The Schindlers have been proven to be money hungry, and as far as i can tell mr. schiavo has not. Go easy on the husband brian, boys got to stick together.
 
I'm actually on the side of the husband, but what fun would that be. This would be a 3 post thread. Somebody has to make these things interesting. Shiiiish. Don't tell Barry.
 
Looks like the Schindlers are already cashing in on their daughter's death by selling the list of names and e mail addresses of contributors. What scumbags.

Scumbags
 
I'm not sure which of the Schiavo threads to post this in, so I'll just put it in the one that has the most replies and hits.

I'm posting just to make a point. The point being what I originally got into this debate for in the first place, that supporting Terri's family's side of the argument is/was not hypocritical.

I watched the story of Terri Schiavo on the show Biography that's on the A&E channel last night or Sunday night. The reasons the politicians got involved in the first place was because of a massive public outcry as a result of a video of Terri Schiavo in her supposed "vegetative" state that was shown on TV (I think a local news station). The video showed a woman who was conscious and seemed to be aware of her surroundings. These politicians did what the public expected them to do, and that was to investigate. I'm not saying that it was right or wrong to let Terri die. But if you watched that show, or have seen videos of Terri Schiavo, without the influence of professional medical opinion, you would not think her to be a "vegetable". And the facts are this, no one knows for sure if Terri Schiavo had any conscious thought. The experts that said she didn't feel any pain or consciousness were simply stating their educated OPINION.

They were probably right, but we don't know for sure. That's why there was a big uproar, and that's why I believe it was right to investigate this case to the fullest extent, all the way to the Supreme Court.

I've read here and elsewhere that people that profess to care about Terri were just hypocrits because they couldn't even take care of their house plants, etc. With that same logic, I should not care one bit for those that were killed on 9/11/01 or in the OKC bombing because I didn't know any of them. Nor should that little girl that fell into that mine shaft years ago have received the outpouring of sympathy and superhuman efforts to save her life because hardly anybody knew her or were capable of caring for her if she became severely handicapped.

No, the reason why people cared about this case is because they care about protecting innocent people. They weren't medical experts that could coldly diagnose Terri Schiavo's condition and deem her hopeless. They aren't "opportunists" or "hypocrits", they are human beings that care for other human beings. They saw a woman who was not in a coma and who was unable to defend herself. The courts decided what they believe Terri Schiavo would have wanted. And they are probably right. But don't hate those that had hope for her. Don't ridicule those that believed her life spark was still there, because it can't be disproven.

God bless Terri Schiavo and those that loved her.
 
I agree with almost everything you said but I have to ask if you will be convinced of her condition, one way or the other, based on the outcome of the autopsy?

Shouldn't science rule in this case?
 

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