Drooool

you don't need a custom tune or any tune for headers. The computer recognizes and adjusts to any fuel/air change as long as you have the o2 sensors connected. If you needed a tune for headers than why not need one for changing cai or exhaust as this changes air/fuel also maybe not as much as headers but enough to drastically change the car from stock. The only thing that can destroy engine is if you run open headers or manifolds or no mufflers.
You would eventually destroy the valves...happens to people who do this on any small block engine. After inspecting the car i'm willing to bet any headers from the newer mustangs might fit especially after hearing that the frame of our cars were based on the 2005 to present mustangs. Different engines but i'm sure they might work. Anyhoo just my 2 cents.
 
Right - headers will have a potential gain of 8-15 hp - and move the torque curve a little. The PCM has enough logic to adjust for that small amount...

I agree the lack of backpressure causes long-term damange, and the exhaust side cannot disspate enough heat...

Just as an FYI - the 2005+ Mustang - they attempted to re-use the DEW98 chassis (Lincoln LS) but could not get the cost model down to where they needed it for the Mustang price point, and therefore only the floorpan design ever made it into the Mustang. The 3.9L heads are infact use much small port spacing and the mod motor bolt-ons will not fit... yeah for us,..
 
HRLNKN said:
Figured I'd add my $.02. Stainlessworks headers on a Thunderbird. There ya go.:cool:
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Sure looks like those will scrape even the lowest speed bumps! Forget about steep driveways!
 
Yeah, probably. Looks like they might have the elbows right AT the scraping point. Although, this is a pic that I got last year, so maybe they've perfected their layout somewhat. And the LS doesn't have that cross-brace in the way, either. I just figured that someone might like to see what they look like since they don't have any pics on their website. (Always thought that was kinda weird tho.)
 
Mechanicboy said:
Headers can mess with the A/F ratio. This varies from engine to engine and header to header but I'd rather be safe and enjoy the benefits of the tune with headers. I've header of a few people that had to pull a little timing to prevent pinging, they still said it was worth it for the power gain of the headers
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headers dont do anything, its the o2 sensors that need to be working
 
Quik LS said:
Right - headers will have a potential gain of 8-15 hp - and move the torque curve a little. The PCM has enough logic to adjust for that small amount...

I agree the lack of backpressure causes long-term damange, and the exhaust side cannot disspate enough heat...

Just as an FYI - the 2005+ Mustang - they attempted to re-use the DEW98 chassis (Lincoln LS) but could not get the cost model down to where they needed it for the Mustang price point, and therefore only the floorpan design ever made it into the Mustang. The 3.9L heads are infact use much small port spacing and the mod motor bolt-ons will not fit... yeah for us,..
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1.The problems is that the computers logic is the add fuel and pull timing. Many people agree that tuning is a great performance Mod for the LS so the person getting the headers should later dyno tune it and report back. I bet there's a lot to be had from tuning with the headers.

2. Yea, burned valves :mad:

3. The funny part is that it ended up costing ford $100 more per car to use a live axle then it would have been to keep the independent rear suspension.
 
Mechanicboy said:
I bet there's a lot to be had from tuning with the headers.
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do you have experience here?

The mustang crowd is getting dynoed, then tuned, then dynoed, then add headers, then dynoed, then tuned, then dynoed....

they are only seeing 5-8hp with shorties ans 8-13hp with longs
 
Quik LS said:
they are only seeing 5-8hp with shorties ans 8-13hp with longs
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I beg to differ. My friends S197 picked up 22 peak rwhp and around the same for torque IIRC. As far as across the entire RPM range I believe your statement would be more correct. His mods are the JLT CAI, AR LT's, OR X-pipe and Borla Stinger axle backs with a tune. The headers and X-pipe were done together with a before and after dyno, same place, same month, temp might have been substantially different tho, Ill have to ask him.
 
Quik LS said:
do you have experience here?

The mustang crowd is getting dynoed, then tuned, then dynoed, then add headers, then dynoed, then tuned, then dynoed....

they are only seeing 5-8hp with shorties ans 8-13hp with longs
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Were those box tunes, or dyno tunes? Like I said, every header and car is different so box tunes won't be that great.
 
Mechanicboy said:
Were those box tunes, or dyno tunes? Like I said, every header and car is different so box tunes won't be that great.
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EXACTLY! Thats why I havent gone with tunes from ILLS or Torrie, way too many variables, thats why NYC's LS got slower from one of their tunes, not dogging them or anything but canned tunes are pretty much garbage.
 
Missing Linc' said:
EXACTLY! Thats why I havent gone with tunes from ILLS or Torrie, way too many variables, thats why NYC's LS got slower from one of their tunes, not dogging them or anything but canned tunes are pretty much garbage.
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NYC's srt8 is a great example of what great tuning can do, especially when combined with other mods. He doesn't have headers tho but the same principals apply that tuning should be done on the dyno and for that specific vehicle and mods.
 
Missing Linc' said:
EXACTLY! Thats why I havent gone with tunes from ILLS or Torrie, way too many variables, thats why NYC's LS got slower from one of their tunes, not dogging them or anything but canned tunes are pretty much garbage.
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I beg to differ. TYPICALLY id agree, but I'll put my ILLS tune against your tune any day!
 
Missing Linc' said:
I beg to differ. My friends S197 picked up 22 peak rwhp and around the same for torque IIRC. As far as across the entire RPM range I believe your statement would be more correct. His mods are the JLT CAI, AR LT's, OR X-pipe and Borla Stinger axle backs with a tune. The headers and X-pipe were done together with a before and after dyno, same place, same month, temp might have been substantially different tho, Ill have to ask him.
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Usually when you see numbers like that it's a combination of headers, x-pipe, cat delete, re-worked exhaust piping, mufflers, ...etc - since a lot of the time you have to re-work the entire exhaust to fit the headers...
 
Quik LS said:
Do you have actual experience with headers?
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I have first hand experience with carbureted engines. I have second hand knowledge with efi engine.

SPSully said:
I beg to differ. TYPICALLY id agree, but I'll put my ILLS tune against your tune any day!
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I believe his tune to be stock, so you're probably right.

BUT, when I get to dyno tuning I'll take that bet. I'll buy ILLS tune then dyno tune and post the results. If the dyno tune puts out more power then you'll pay me back double the costs of ILLS tunes and if I loss then I'll pay you the cost of ILLS tunes.

Deal?
 
Mechanicboy said:
I have first hand experience with carbureted engines. I have second hand knowledge with efi engine.
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so when you say "tuning is a MUST" and "there is a lot to be had from headers"... where are these statements coming from?

What is a lot in your mind?
 
Mechanicboy said:
I have first hand experience with carbureted engines. I have second hand knowledge with efi engine.



I believe his tune to be stock, so you're probably right.

BUT, when I get to dyno tuning I'll take that bet. I'll buy ILLS tune then dyno tune and post the results. If the dyno tune puts out more power then you'll pay me back double the costs of ILLS tunes and if I loss then I'll pay you the cost of ILLS tunes.

Deal?
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lets give it a more fair fight..... put my tune or 02lse...........'s tune from ills against a custom tune on our cars. The unseen half of the ILLS tunes is how they are somewhat tailored to the cars. I do custom tuning (on gm's not fords) and I would be hard pressed to get the tranny tune as good as ILLS's and his AFR's on my car are table flat. Yes there is a lot to be said for custom tuning, but with canned tunes as rock solid as his, the need for them on these cars with next to no aftermarket is just not there. Guys like Quik with custom work have a need for it. But for 50 bucks vs 450 first hour plus how ever much each additional hour, ILLS's tune cant be beat.
 
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