Dyno and Custom Tune Results

[driller]

Joey, go to www.wunderground.com and look up the weather stats for the day and location of your dyno. Then find the elevation.

Weather plays a HUGE part in dyno results. When I got my numbers it was 70 degrees in the morning but a disparaging 78% humidity with a barometric pressure of 30.02 at about a 200 foot elevation. That gives a density altitude of about 1100 feet and a dyno correction factor of 0.992.

Dyno correction factor

Some places automatically correct the numbers, most don't. Be sure to ask, you don't want to 'correct' them twice.

So my 252.5 RWHP / 262.8 RWTQ equals 250.48/260.7 corrected numbers using the 0.992 correction factor.

 

[Kurgan_Motorsports]

Actually Bob, Geno (onebadmk8) and I talked about this at length this afternoon. Your tune NEVER came up in our conversation as being the reason for the lack of HP. In fact, Onebadmk8 backed you up on the things you did, agreeing with what you set things at from what I told him. The only opinion he offered contrary to what you have done is that he said he may have gone a bit leaner. but that what you did was perfectly fine.

Guys, there seems to be some misunderstandings in this thread, and its going in the wrong direction unecessarily. Lets take a step back.

there is no doubt that lean is mean... but, in my experience in tuning NA cars, 13.0 is about as lean as I would want to go... I am more then willing to share timing #s etc too.. I have nothing to hide. Thats why i invited you in back while i dynoed your car. I like to have the customer more involved since you are the one who is foot'n the bill for the car on the dyno.. Thats your heart and soul. The last thing i would want if i invested that much money is to have someone take my car where i couldnt see it and say "come back later"..

My only issue is that every time i try to make a suggestion, i get replied with "LOL, HAHAHAH, bla bla bla.." talk about belittleing someone! I think that he feels threatened? I dont know.. Im not here to sell anything. I was just here to thank you and support any questions. I am trying to answer them the best i can, but i am getting alot of $hit. So, my next step is just to STFU and move on i guess. I dont need the drama.

 

[Kurgan_Motorsports]

i was just informed that Joey's exhaust and mufflers were provided to him by ONEBADMK8... i didnt know this.. i was just throwing ideas out..

I still believe that this dyno just reads lower then others... I have FIRSTHAND experience with this. Regardless, #s dont matter.. dyno's are used to show what changes yield positive results and which yield negative results...

 

[Joeychgo]

Joey, go to www.wunderground.com and look up the weather stats for the day and location of your dyno. Then find the elevation.

Weather plays a HUGE part in dyno results. When I got my numbers it was 70 degrees in the morning but a disparaging 78% humidity with a barometric pressure of 30.02 at about a 200 foot elevation. That gives a density altitude of about 1100 feet and a dyno correction factor of 0.992.

Dyno correction factor

Some places automatically correct the numbers, most don't. Be sure to ask, you don't want to 'correct' them twice.

So my 252.5 RWHP / 262.8 RWTQ equals 250.48/260.7 corrected numbers using the 0.992 correction factor.

ok... so my correction factor was 1.028

that makes the corrected HP 259.06 and RWT 261.11

I have nothing to hide. Thats why i invited you in back while i dynoed your car. I like to have the customer more involved since you are the one who is foot'n the bill for the car on the dyno.. Thats your heart and soul. The last thing i would want if i invested that much money is to have someone take my car where i couldnt see it and say "come back later"...

And that is one of the reasons I choose you to do my tune Bob...

 

[driller]

Regardless, #s dont matter.. dyno's are used to show what changes yield positive results and which yield negative results...

Problem is you can't tell that to the guy with 600 HP who can't seem to put it to the ground. All the big HP guys I seem to know complain the track was bad, the weather was bad, this excuse and that excuse and all they want is to brag on their dyno numbers.

I'll take my weasly 250 RWHP Mark VIII anyday - no use to have it if you can't use it.

 

[driller]

ok... so my correction factor was 1.028

that makes the corrected HP 259.06 and RWT 261.11

Not so irritated now?

 

[Joeychgo]

Not so irritated now?

Not as bad anyway lol

 

[JC1994]

Drilled/slotted rotors DO NOT outperform blanks. Period.


I own/operate an SCCA Improved Touring E-class Mustang. This car will repeatedly stop itself from 165-170 mph every lap at Firebird main course (about once every one and a quarter minutes) The brake setup is as follows:

Cobra calipers (yes, the crappy PBR ones)
Very solid brake ducting
Very good (expensive) DOT 4 fluid
Hawk Blacks or SBC race pads


...drumroll...


and Brembo blanks.


The outgassing mentioned in this thread is not a problem with modern brake pads. Drilling/slotting rotors does the following:

1. Decreases the overall mass of the rotor, thereby reducing its ability to absorb/dissipate heat.
2. Increases pad wear by the holes/slots digging into the pad
3. TREMENDOUSLY increases the chance for the rotor to crack
4. Disrupts the natural strength of the casting because there are now additional stress risers.


If any of you spend any time at a road course, you'll notice that even on uber-racecars, blanks outnumber drilled/slotted by probably ten to one. The only people that have drilled/slotted rotors are (especially) the Porsche guys because those holes are actually cast into the rotor.

If anyone of you don't believe me, feel free to view this thread:

http://corner-carvers.com/altimathread.php.html

This is the 'infamous' thread saved for posterity by corner-carvers forums all about this subject. The folks at www.corner-carvers.com are, IMHO, one of the best no BS locations for hardcore tech on the internet.





With that said, I have drilled/slotted rotors on my silver mustang. Why? Because they look cool.

Paul.

yeah right, that's why they put them on motorcycles. cuz they don't work.

 

[Kurgan_Motorsports]

Problem is you can't tell that to the guy with 600 HP who can't seem to put it to the ground. All the big HP guys I seem to know complain the track was bad, the weather was bad, this excuse and that excuse and all they want is to brag on their dyno numbers.

I'll take my weasly 250 RWHP Mark VIII anyday - no use to have it if you can't use it.

oh, i know what your talking about.. My own car makes 1100rwhp and runs 8.20 @ 169... ive been racing for years, so ive learned a few tricks on getting the HP to the ground

 

[Joeychgo]

oh, i know what your talking about.. My own car makes 1100rwhp and runs 8.20 @ 169... ive been racing for years, so ive learned a few tricks on getting the HP to the ground

Many havent learned those tricks. Additionally, the Mark VIII has issues in this regard. Gotta remember, its not a Mustang. The suspension isnt something that you can just swap out or adjust. We are limited as to rim sizes, etc...

But with Drag Radials I am sure the wheels on mine will stick fine. My issues are in the lower rpm and lower end acceration.

 

[MonsterMark]

All I know is the car made almost exactly what I thought it would. I should have just left the post up guessing the 3rd pull number.

Btw Bob, you are welcome here and certainly your comments are welcome. Anytime we get fresh dyno numbers is a good day for all of us.

All I know is I have a lot to learn. Trying every day. You guys keep it light and keep the good info coming.

I'll give you one hint... for at least 2 hp... naw, later.

 

[driller]

Not as bad anyway lol

So that means we're on for a Dyno bet at Carlisle? :gr_devil:

 

[ONEBADMK8]

You really need to lighten up a bit Bob. I mean re-read what I wrote again CLOSELY!

Talk about making a mountain of a grain of sand? Belittleing you?

C'mon man were both on the same side of the fence, either you have a problem with comprehension of a conversation or bad day I have no idea. Ask ANYONE on here that read my response if they felt the way you did about it.

How do you expect me to react about the products and pipes you mentioned to be a possibility for the car being down on power?

Just look how you reacted when you THOUGHT I was making fun of your tune?

Again all I did was post numbers, facts, weather conditions and results. It would be like me posting a quote from a book? Don't shoot the messenger Bud.

Again I had NOTHING to do with the outcome, the dyno run or the car other then assembling it and you WENT off on some bizzarre rant that makes NO sense at all, only you see it this way for some odd reason.

 

[ONEBADMK8]

I guess he is down on power because i dont know wtf Im doing..

Are you happy now? Because i think thats what you are getting to...

good day sir.

You need to calm down a notch.

I was getting to NOTHING of the sort. Thats just your twisted interpretation of simple facts.

 

[ONEBADMK8]

Joey, go to www.wunderground.com and look up the weather stats for the day and location of your dyno. Then find the elevation.

Weather plays a HUGE part in dyno results. When I got my numbers it was 70 degrees in the morning but a disparaging 78% humidity with a barometric pressure of 30.02 at about a 200 foot elevation. That gives a density altitude of about 1100 feet and a dyno correction factor of 0.992.

Dyno correction factor

Some places automatically correct the numbers, most don't. Be sure to ask, you don't want to 'correct' them twice.

So my 252.5 RWHP / 262.8 RWTQ equals 250.48/260.7 corrected numbers using the 0.992 correction factor.

So very true JP. Just like on the street or the track the weather conditions do play a HUGE role.

Thats why myself as well as everyone there was SHOCKED to see the results Walt put down in those $hitty conditions.

It was either me and Ray or me and Chris that were joking he wouldn't even break 250 hp in this crap weather, thats all I was pointing out that in BAD weather his car on a LOW dyno did the same power and torque with NO headers while at Kooks our customer made an EXTRA 29 hp with the addition of JUST headers and true duals.

Im just trying to figure out whats going on THATS ALL? GGGGggggggggggggggggeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

 

[driller]

... while at Kooks our customer made an EXTRA 29 hp with the addition of JUST headers and true duals.

I'm thinking the headers gave me maybe 15-20 HP? I already had the true duals. Since Joey's mods have mirrored mine, it'd be a cool Gen1/Gen2 duel? :F

 

[ONEBADMK8]

I'm thinking the headers gave me maybe 15-20 HP? I already had the true duals. Since Joey's mods have mirrored mine, it'd be a cool Gen1/Gen2 duel? :F

Exactly JP the 29hp makes sense with headers, 2.5 inch, some type of crossover and good mufflers.

I would love to know Walt's corrected numbers from that day. You can get Weather archives from Google as well as elevation information on Carlisle PA but I forget the exact date and year of that time at Carlisle. I think it was 2002? Ray would know.

 

[98LSC32V]

Joey how much was the timing advanced... these cars like 4-6 degrees advance throughout the rpm range. I don't think the gen 2 intake manifold is holding you back, look at the guy who runs 11's with stock gen 2 intake manifold with the vortech and built shortblock. Dyno numbers don't mean much to me, take it to the track and see what MPH you are pulling. MPH is what shows how much power your car puts down... I'll take a MPH dyno over a real dyno any day.

 

[driller]

I would love to know Walt's corrected numbers from that day. You can get Weather archives from Google as well as elevation information on Carlisle PA but I forget the exact date and year of that time at Carlisle.

Got an archive pic of the dyno sheet?

 

[Kurgan_Motorsports]

Joey how much was the timing advanced... these cars like 4-6 degrees advance throughout the rpm range. I don't think the gen 2 intake manifold is holding you back, look at the guy who runs 11's with stock gen 2 intake manifold with the vortech and built shortblock. Dyno numbers don't mean much to me, take it to the track and see what MPH you are pulling. MPH is what shows how much power your car puts down... I'll take a MPH dyno over a real dyno any day.

stock timing table for the BLX3 is 19 total plus the addition of adders such as IMRC, ECT, ACT, and other misc things... typical timing would be about 21-23 total with adders.... Joey's car made the best power with 26 deg total and peak power and 24 at peak torque (cylinder pressure)... no sign of detonation.. hope that helps.

 

[ONEBADMK8]

Got an archive pic of the dyno sheet?

OMG the award for the person who didnt think before he typed goes to................ ME!!!

 

[driller]

OMG the award for the person who didnt think before he typed goes to................ ME!!!

That narrows the day down, but I don't think the clock is right!

Let's presume the AM is actually PM...

Temp 78.1
Baro 29.71
Humidity 27%
Altitude 500 feet

Dyno Correction Factor 1.014

263.64RWHP/263.54RWTQ

 

[Dr. Paul]

yeah right, that's why they put them on motorcycles. cuz they don't work.

Congratulations on such a well-thought-out and comprehensive response. Glad to see you at least read the article. (which is where the comment on motorcycles was made)


Anyway, back to arguing about dyno numbers and correction factors...

Paul.

 

[Dr. Paul]

Joey how much was the timing advanced... these cars like 4-6 degrees advance throughout the rpm range. I don't think the gen 2 intake manifold is holding you back, look at the guy who runs 11's with stock gen 2 intake manifold with the vortech and built shortblock. Dyno numbers don't mean much to me, take it to the track and see what MPH you are pulling. MPH is what shows how much power your car puts down... I'll take a MPH dyno over a real dyno any day.

Intake manifold design matters significantly more in a naturally aspirated combination vs a forced induction one. Inefficiencies are largely overcome by boost pressure.

Paul.

 

[ONEBADMK8]

That narrows the day down, but I don't think the clock is right!

Let's presume the AM is actually PM...

Temp 78.1
Baro 29.71
Humidity 27%
Altitude 500 feet

Dyno Correction Factor 1.014

263.64RWHP/263.54RWTQ

Cool thanks JP.