Easy way to 400 RW HP?

[Bluesman73]

Hello, everyone. Just wanted to let everyone know my '93 MarkVIII is doing great since I picked it up in January. I have some modifications in store for it along with a new paint job, but other than that, everything is fantastic.

My question to everyone is this:

Besides installing a turbo, a supercharger, or nitrous, is it possible to achieve 400 RW HP with these 4.6's? I would like something that is reliable and bullet-proof. I'm not super interested at what it can do at the drag strip, moreover what it can do in the real world. These cars are sleepers unless you are in the know and I would like to keep mine that way. The only give-away to what I have under the hood would be the exhaust from LMS (along with some other goodies from them).

So, if anyone has some ideas or suggestions, my ears are open.

Thank you all,

Bluesman

 

[JC1994]

a n/a 400 rwhp Mark Is what everyone want's. I went with NoS it was alot cheaper and will be more reliable in the long run over a high compression big cam n/a engine, plus the NoS is only on when you want it unlike turbo or supercharger.

 

[MrWilson]

200 shot...you can do what you want, but it will cost mad money.

 

[Joeychgo]

Thats about 500 to the crank.

It can be done, but would cost a fortune. Your talking about a custom built engine with high flow ported heads, ported intake, new cams, headers, exhase, etc, etc. You'll spend $20k before your done, and thats just on the mechanicals.

Even then you might not make it, but you'll be close. Trouble is, nobody has done it that I know of. (not NA)

I've looked into doing this myself. Ive considered all the things mentioned and more. You need about the HP your talking to get into the 11s.

But, a 200 shot of Nitro isnt the answer either. You'll likely wreck your engine. IF you want to venture down this path, the first step, si building up the lower half of your engine. I talked with DSS racing about doing this, and for about $4k they'll rebuild your lower half, adding about 40hp, and your engine should be good to about 800 HP. Thats pretty much the first step regardless of what you do.

Personally, I suspect that with standard mods such as headers, LMS exhaust, high stall torque converter, gears, performance chip - along with the lower half rebuild, ported cobra intake and some ported and polished heads with the right cams, I think you can get close if not there. But your talking $15k in just parts.

I may get there someday. Just need to sell a few more gold memberships...

 

[MrWilson]

i was readin in MM/FF...they had an article on early 4v 4.6 mods. they did headers, and cams (of course this was with the cobra intake, and the slightly better cobra heads) and they were at 360 crank hp. (the article was in this months mag...Remember the Titans, Part 1
How about some modifications for those early 4-valve 4.6s? We got 'em.)

if that turns out to be true, id just get a forged bottom end, some cams, a cobra intake, exhaust, 200 shot, a tune, and call it a day. youll beat up on 04 cobras all day long.

Personally, I suspect that with standard mods such as headers, LMS exhaust, high stall torque converter, gears, performance chip - along with the lower half rebuild, ported cobra intake and some ported and polished heads with the right cams, I think you can get close if not there. But your talking $15k in just parts.

what kind of con artist are you going to that its gonna cost you 15k for that little stuff?

 

[MrWilson]

But, a 200 shot of Nitro isnt the answer either. You'll likely wreck your engine. IF you want to venture down this path, the first step, si building up the lower half of your engine. I talked with DSS racing about doing this, and for about $4k they'll rebuild your lower half, adding about 40hp, and your engine should be good to about 800 HP. Thats pretty much the first step regardless of what you do.

uh 200 shot IS the answer, but you do need a built bottom...and if your gettin 40hp out of it, they are prolly runnin flatter pistons, so you wont be goin anywhere near 800 hp with that...if you want power, your gonna lose it first, cuz youll be dishing the pistons, so you can run a blower. but if you want n/a...its realy not worth it sometimes. unless you just have a bug up your butt to do one like that

 

[Jibit]

ok, anything is possible. I don't think you'll be able to get a 4.6 up to 400 at the wheels and still have it streetable if its N/A. That all depends on what you consider streetable. It'll have to have some pretty wild cams in it. As far as the nitrous, its always a crap shoot. I've seen people run 150 shots on an engine with over 100K with no problems. I've seen engines blow with 75 shots. It'll never be a reliable car, or at least not as reliable as a stock car. Just expect to be replacing things sooner than later.

 

[driller]

Hmmm... lets see, do the math.

400 - 252 = 148

I'm sorry, I can't see 150 HP to be had naturally aspirated. :shifty:

 

[MrWilson]

Hmmm... lets see, do the math.

400 - 252 = 148

I'm sorry, I can't see 150 HP to be had naturally aspirated. :shifty:

crank hp...so its more like 115. which is somewhat doable if your talkin 400 crank.

nitrous isnt a problem as long as its done properly. why would pro racers use nitrous if its unreliable? they just know its done right. if you have hank and his retarded son down at bargan basement mechanics do it for ya, yea your gonna blow.

 

[NYC LS8]

..why would pro racers use nitrous if its unreliable? they just know its done right. if you have hank and his retarded son down at bargan basement mechanics do it for ya, yea your gonna blow.

Because they yank, inspect and rebuild those motors a helluva lot more than the average Joe does.

 

[Dr. Paul]

Nitrous is far from unreliable.


It's only unreliable and dangerous to morons who don't pay attention to what they're doing, or try to push their motors beyond their mechanical limits. (e.g. powerdered metal rods)

Paul.

 

[driller]

crank hp...so its more like 115. which is somewhat doable if your talkin 400 crank.

Excuse me?

This is from the first post:

"My question to everyone is this:

Besides installing a turbo, a supercharger, or nitrous, is it possible to achieve 400 RW HP with these 4.6's?"

So,

HE IS NOT TALKING NITROUS NOR CRANK HP!! :soapbox:

 

[Doc]

Whats a good supercharger go for nowadays?

 

[67Continental]

for our car, you are looking at 3-5000 installed for a vortech.

 

[Jibit]

Hmmm... lets see, do the math.

400 - 252 = 148

I'm sorry, I can't see 150 HP to be had naturally aspirated. :shifty:

take a 4.6, stroke it to a 5.1, port and polish the heads, exhaust, cams, larger injectors with rails and pump, properly tuned, what do think? definitely not streetable but I bet the hp would be there or damn close.

 

[Kbob]

Not to mention that 400 rwhp is gonna put strain on the whole drivetrain. Lotsa mullah no matter how you look at it.

 

[Joeychgo]

nitrous isnt a problem as long as its done properly. why would pro racers use nitrous if its unreliable? they just know its done right. if you have hank and his retarded son down at bargan basement mechanics do it for ya, yea your gonna blow.

Because racers dont drive their cars every day, and their engines are built to withstand the extra power.

Not to mention that 400 rwhp is gonna put strain on the whole drivetrain. Lotsa mullah no matter how you look at it.

also true. Add $1500 - $2k for a built transmission.

 

[rocket5979]

400rwhp has been done on a N/A 4 valve 4.6 modular based engine before. It is not too common because there are MANY cheaper and better ways (relative term) to get to 400rwhp with a DOHC 4v 4.6 engine.

Like Joey said, you can reach that power goal in completly N/A form, but it will cost A LOT of money! With the amount of money it would take to put a N/A 4v engine into the 400rwhp range, you could have had a 4v or even 2v engine into the 600+rwhp range and still be relatively streetable with a blower. Staying N/A is cool sounding but not very cost affective.

5.3 liter forged big bore stroker SB
Totally reworked heads w/ VERY aggressive cams and new springs retainer & the works
Sullivan, Fox Lake, or other 4v highflow intake
36 lb/hr injectors (42's if you want a little room to grow)
Dual 255lph Walbro fuel pumps
Aeromotive fuel rails while your at it
MSD (or other brand) ignition
Reflashed computer or chip
L Maf
Headers
Full dual 2.5" exhaust
Fenderwell CAI
Electric fan
Meziere electric water pump
Refreshed 4R70W tranny w/ shift kit & aux tranny cooler (at least)
If running sticky rear tires then be prepared to address possible issues with drivetrain
The list goes on...

Bottom line, to hit 400rwhp from a N/A 4v 4.6 based modular engine it will take a lot of money and turn your vehicle into a very unstreetable wannabe racecar. Not my idea of fun for a DD.






With a mildly built bottom end, supporting fuel mods, the normal 4v bolt ons/mods, 4R70W tranny w/ shift kit blahblahblah, and nitrous you could hit 400rwhp (and a sh1tload of torque!!!) easily. It would be the cheapest (short term) way to accomplish your goal. If setup and tuned correctly, nitrous can be pretty safe as long as it doesn't fall into the hands of a moron.


In answer to your original question. There is NO easy way to 400rwhp in a 4v 4.6 while still remaining N/A.

 

[rocket5979]

also true. Add $1500 - $2k for a built transmission.

There have been quite a few people who have hit 400rwhp and above with just a shiftkit and aux tranny cooler in their 4R70W tranny. Of course this is assuming that the tranny is in good working condition and hasn't been beat to p1ss already.

 

[Joeychgo]

what kind of con artist are you going to that its gonna cost you 15k for that little stuff?

Con Artist? LOL Price these things my friend. Your talking $2000-$2500 for the exhaust (headers, cats, x pipes, mufflers, piping) $4000-$5000 for the built stroker engine, $2000 or so for the heads, Another $1000 for the ported intake. Thats 10k right there. Now start adding all the other things like a custom tune and chip, fuel system to feed the engine, etc. You'll be at $15k before long.

And all that is without labor and assuming you do the install yourself.

 

[Joeychgo]

There have been quite a few people who have hit 400rwhp and above with just a shiftkit and aux tranny cooler in their 4R70W tranny. Of course this is assuming that the tranny is in good working condition and hasn't been beat to p1ss already.

Im making the assumption that since he has a 93 mark viii, that the tranny wont stand the beating. It at least wont stand it for too long. Keep in mind, the added HP is going to wear alot of stock parts faster then normal.

 

[rocket5979]

Im making the assumption that since he has a 93 mark viii, that the tranny wont stand the beating. It at least wont stand it for too long. Keep in mind, the added HP is going to wear alot of stock parts faster then normal.

If his tranny is old and tired then it would be no big problem to get a 4R70W tranny from a newer Mustang GT (04-). Heck if he was needing to do a swap then why not just swap to the 4R75W tranny out of the 4v auto Mach 1's? It is a tad stronger than the 4R70W and still takes VERY nicely to a shift kit! It may not seem like much, and in fact they aren't. But shift kits accomplish quite a bit for their size (if you could even call it that). Just key modifications to the valve body plate and replacing some particular valves and springs in it. I have seen home built 4R's stand up to one heck of a lot of abuse with the kit and extra tranny cooler. A LOT less wear and chance of rpm flare in the tranny.

Getting a fully built 4R70W tranny for only 400rwhp is overkill, especially for a car that will most likely not race a lot; or put a lot of shock on the tranny like what a transbrake would do.

 

[Jibit]

And all that is without labor and assuming you do the install yourself.

if you could do the job yourself, I bet you could do it for 5K! Problem is how many people do you know with enough knowledge about the 4.6L, and are backyard mechanics?

 

[MarkVIII93]

Its possible if you want to spend a bajillion dollars.

 

[Jibit]

look up Sean Hyland Motorsports and you'll find motors built NA with that power