Easy way to 400 RW HP?

Sean Hyland pioneered the 5 litre version of the modular 4 valve engine in 1998 for road racing, and this engine is the latest iteration of that concept. Utilizing an aluminum block, thin wall cast iron sleeves are installed, increasing the bore to 3.70 inches (94mm). Forged pistons of 10.5-1 compression and forged steel connecting rods are added to the forged steel crankshaft. FR500 cylinder heads are ported, fitted with oversize stainless valves and high lift billet steel camshafts. A magnesium FR500 intake manifold with variable length intake runners sits on top of this engine, completing the stunning visual presentation.

$13,995.00*
 
rocket5979 said:
Getting a fully built 4R70W tranny for only 400rwhp is overkill, especially for a car that will most likely not race a lot; or put a lot of shock on the tranny like what a transbrake would do.
Click to expand...


True - BUT - whats the chances a poweradder wont be added on later on?

You know how this works. You want x - get it, then you want y too.

I would go built for 2 reasons. It gives you plenty of room for growth later on, and its bulletproof so you wont be replacing the tranny again for a very long time. Blow that stock tranny once and your gonna be at the same cost. Why risk it to save $700?

Jibit said:
if you could do the job yourself, I bet you could do it for 5K! Problem is how many people do you know with enough knowledge about the 4.6L, and are backyard mechanics?
Click to expand...

And have all the appropriate tools, and have the time to dedicate.
 
Jibit said:
look up Sean Hyland Motorsports and you'll find motors built NA with that power
Click to expand...



I don't see that. I DO see a 450 horsepower N/A SHM engine but that will be whittled down to about 360 rwhp by the time it hits the wheels. It does cost $14k too!!!

The only SHM engine I see there that makes enough power to put 400 to the ground has a Kenne Bell on it.

Those engines don't incluse A LOT of other supporting mods like MAS, exhaust, headers, tranny mod, CAI, elec fan, dual fuel pumps, ignition, chip, and so on even with that engine. NOT very cheap at all. :D
 
rocket5979 said:
I don't see that. I DO see a 450 horsepower N/A SHM engine but that will be whittled down to about 360 rwhp by the time it hits the wheels. It does cost $14k too!!!

The only SHM engine I see there that makes enough power to put 400 to the ground has a Kenne Bell on it.

Those engines don't incluse A LOT of other supporting mods like MAS, exhaust, headers, tranny mod, CAI, elec fan, dual fuel pumps, ignition, chip, and so on even with that engine. NOT very cheap at all. :D
Click to expand...


Exactly. This is not an easy nor inexpensive task, and harder even when you want it reasonably streetable. Once more, you could do everything and still fall short of the 400RWP - then what?
 
well, if you had a mechanic that did engines with a machine shop, or you where the mechanic, it could be done at a reasonable price.
 
Joeychgo said:
True - BUT - whats the chances a poweradder wont be added on later on?

You know how this works. You want x - get it, then you want y too.
Click to expand...


With the way that engine would have to be built he would NOT want to run a poweradder! With the way this engine would need to be built it would totally negate being able to use a power adder to much affectiveness, or safety later on.


Joeychgo said:
Why risk it to save $700?
Click to expand...


The 4R70W trannies can take QUITE a bit in stock form. With the shift kit and extra cooler they have withstood some pretty high numbers. Finding a good condition used 4R from a GT isn't very hard. Overall between going with a fully built 4R70W tranny ($2,500-2,800) and the GT fresh trans swap w/ the other things I mentioned there will be a HUGE price difference between the two, and the shift kitted 4R70W tranny would not be failing anytime soon.
 
Jibit said:
well, if you had a mechanic that did engines with a machine shop, or you where the mechanic, it could be done at a reasonable price.
Click to expand...


LOl - whats reasonable? $5k?
 
Jibit said:
well, if you had a mechanic that did engines with a machine shop, or you where the mechanic, it could be done at a reasonable price.
Click to expand...



Even doing your own work and machining it would cost a pretty decent amount! The figures stated before didn't even include installation, which would be more than $1k+ not including the engine build.

Heck, bare parts alone to get started would be $10k+ easy.
 
you guys are assuming that everything is being done brand new too. The beginning of this thread had nothing to do with cost, it was if it could be done. As for supporting hardware, that will have to be done with anything you do. Its just a matter of time.
 
Jibit said:
you guys are assuming that everything is being done brand new too. The beginning of this thread had nothing to do with cost, it was if it could be done. As for supporting hardware, that will have to be done with anything you do. Its just a matter of time.
Click to expand...



Like I said before, it can and has been done. I am not challenging that in the least. All I am saying is that it WILL be costly! With even used parts buying them from people off the Mustang forums things will still get expensive.
 
Well, guys. Thank you for all of your input and suggestions. Cost is a consideration when doing anything, especially if it isn't worth the gain. But a couple of you did hit it on the nosey when I was asking if it could be done. I understand about upgrading the rest of the drivetrain in the process.

So, since it is obviously clear that obtaining 400 RW HP is a rather lofty goal, what is a more realistic HP goal without spending the money on a custom engine? I am still speaking about a naturally aspirated engine: one that is good for cruising and road trips, too.

Thanks again, everyone.

Bluesman.
 
basicly theres no EASY way to 400 rwhp. but its do-able. Your best bet for #'s easy, is honest to God, nitrous.
 
Bluesman73 said:
So, since it is obviously clear that obtaining 400 RW HP is a rather lofty goal, what is a more realistic HP goal without spending the money on a custom engine? I am still speaking about a naturally aspirated engine: one that is good for cruising and road trips, too.
Click to expand...

Depends onyour budget. It isnt all about HP. SOme of it is how that power gets transferred to the ground.

Think about things like gears, headers, exhaust, torque converyer, cold air intake, custom chip/tune, - stuff like that.
 
Joeychgo said:
Depends onyour budget. It isnt all about HP. SOme of it is how that power gets transferred to the ground.

Think about things like gears, headers, exhaust, torque converyer, cold air intake, custom chip/tune, - stuff like that.
Click to expand...

that is true, but the question at hand is...is it easy to make 400rwhp naturally...the answer is no.
 
How difficult is it to drop the supercharged 5.4 in the Mark?
I forgot, did it not fit due to the height?
 
Calabrio said:
How difficult is it to drop the supercharged 5.4 in the Mark?
I forgot, did it not fit due to the height?
Click to expand...

from what i remember its too tall. but a cobra r hood would solve that.
 
joeychgo said:
Think about things like gears, headers, exhaust, torque converyer, cold air intake, custom chip/tune, - stuff like that.
Click to expand...

I have definately considered all of these things. I don't know if I really want to swap gears or the torque converter, but I will do everything else. My first mods will be the exhaust, chip, cold air intake, modified intake tube, throttle body, and all of the tranny updates including the J-Mod.

So if one was to do all of the above, around what final HP are we looking at? All of the components listed about would more than likely come from LMS.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I will put my .02 in here.


The naturally aspirated 400 rwhp number is thrown around alot these days. It seems this is the magic number to have. I've seen plenty of guys with their pushrod smallblocks tell me this and that about how they're going to make 400 rwhp. The reality is, making that kind of power in a nice, streetable combination is significantly more difficult that you might think.

Trying to balance streetability with the aggressive cam profiles, relatively high compression, RPM necessary to hit the magic mark is quite a task. I actually polled a bunch of the nastier Mustang guys sometime late last year to see if anyone had actually hit the mark - because this is also one of my goals.

It turns out, that of all the folks I know with fast cars here in Phoenix, I came up with a disappointing two people who produced the magic number. One was with a pretty nasty race 347, solid roller cam, 7600 rpms, racegas only, unlicensed trailer queen that runs 10.30s @ 128-129 pretty consistently. Another was an 11:1 CR solid roller 347 with big heads, and another really nasty cam. Neither cars are what fit my definition of "streetable" - although everyone's definition is different.

I myself am trying to hit the magic number with a monster 422 cubic inch motor with huge heads/intake, mild 8.8:1 compression, and a pretty mild cam (.576/.569, 234/236 @ .050, 114 LSA) If you want my prediction, I won't hit the magic number either. Granted, it will probably thump out in excess of 450 ft lbs of torque without too much trouble, but hitting that 400 rwhp is probably unlikely.



What's the point of this huge long rant?

I think that the 400 rwhp number is a lofty, but often totally unnecessary goal. A car that has only maybe 350 rwhp, but a real nice long, flat torque curve is going to be absolute blast to drive, and will annhilate 99.9% of what you're going to encounter on the street - from Mustangs to Camaro, and vettes and maybe even the occasional Viper since he will probably spin the tires into next week. People aspire to "make the number", but I think people should spend more time focusing on making the car fun to drive (i.e. broad torque) than trying to build a peaky, screamer motor that will hit the number. In the end, you'll end up having more fun.

My .02

Paul.
 
Dr. Paul said:
I will put my .02 in here.


The naturally aspirated 400 rwhp number is thrown around alot these days. It seems this is the magic number to have. I've seen plenty of guys with their pushrod smallblocks tell me this and that about how they're going to make 400 rwhp. The reality is, making that kind of power in a nice, streetable combination is significantly more difficult that you might think.

Trying to balance streetability with the aggressive cam profiles, relatively high compression, RPM necessary to hit the magic mark is quite a task. I actually polled a bunch of the nastier Mustang guys sometime late last year to see if anyone had actually hit the mark - because this is also one of my goals.

It turns out, that of all the folks I know with fast cars here in Phoenix, I came up with a disappointing two people who produced the magic number. One was with a pretty nasty race 347, solid roller cam, 7600 rpms, racegas only, unlicensed trailer queen that runs 10.30s @ 128-129 pretty consistently. Another was an 11:1 CR solid roller 347 with big heads, and another really nasty cam. Neither cars are what fit my definition of "streetable" - although everyone's definition is different.

I myself am trying to hit the magic number with a monster 422 cubic inch motor with huge heads/intake, mild 8.8:1 compression, and a pretty mild cam (.576/.569, 234/236 @ .050, 114 LSA) If you want my prediction, I won't hit the magic number either. Granted, it will probably thump out in excess of 450 ft lbs of torque without too much trouble, but hitting that 400 rwhp is probably unlikely.



What's the point of this huge long rant?

I think that the 400 rwhp number is a lofty, but often totally unnecessary goal. A car that has only maybe 350 rwhp, but a real nice long, flat torque curve is going to be absolute blast to drive, and will annhilate 99.9% of what you're going to encounter on the street - from Mustangs to Camaro, and vettes and maybe even the occasional Viper since he will probably spin the tires into next week. People aspire to "make the number", but I think people should spend more time focusing on making the car fun to drive (i.e. broad torque) than trying to build a peaky, screamer motor that will hit the number. In the end, you'll end up having more fun.

My .02

Paul.
Click to expand...

here here.

i thought you were going to go into another pushrod>OHC rant again :p
 
Dr. Paul said:
I will put my .02 in here.


The naturally aspirated 400 rwhp number is thrown around alot these days. It seems this is the magic number to have. I've seen plenty of guys with their pushrod smallblocks tell me this and that about how they're going to make 400 rwhp. The reality is, making that kind of power in a nice, streetable combination is significantly more difficult that you might think.

Trying to balance streetability with the aggressive cam profiles, relatively high compression, RPM necessary to hit the magic mark is quite a task. I actually polled a bunch of the nastier Mustang guys sometime late last year to see if anyone had actually hit the mark - because this is also one of my goals.

It turns out, that of all the folks I know with fast cars here in Phoenix, I came up with a disappointing two people who produced the magic number. One was with a pretty nasty race 347, solid roller cam, 7600 rpms, racegas only, unlicensed trailer queen that runs 10.30s @ 128-129 pretty consistently. Another was an 11:1 CR solid roller 347 with big heads, and another really nasty cam. Neither cars are what fit my definition of "streetable" - although everyone's definition is different.

I myself am trying to hit the magic number with a monster 422 cubic inch motor with huge heads/intake, mild 8.8:1 compression, and a pretty mild cam (.576/.569, 234/236 @ .050, 114 LSA) If you want my prediction, I won't hit the magic number either. Granted, it will probably thump out in excess of 450 ft lbs of torque without too much trouble, but hitting that 400 rwhp is probably unlikely.



What's the point of this huge long rant?

I think that the 400 rwhp number is a lofty, but often totally unnecessary goal. A car that has only maybe 350 rwhp, but a real nice long, flat torque curve is going to be absolute blast to drive, and will annhilate 99.9% of what you're going to encounter on the street - from Mustangs to Camaro, and vettes and maybe even the occasional Viper since he will probably spin the tires into next week. People aspire to "make the number", but I think people should spend more time focusing on making the car fun to drive (i.e. broad torque) than trying to build a peaky, screamer motor that will hit the number. In the end, you'll end up having more fun.

My .02

Paul.
Click to expand...



Well said.
 
I completely agree with Dr. Paul. Torque is what gets you there, HP keeps you going. I have a '73 Bonneville that weighs 4600 lbs, but with the 400 Pontiac being a torque master, it will beat a lot of stuff out there. Especially if you load the chassis properly.

Torque is king, especially when it nails you to the seat!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Members online

No members online now.
Total: 244 (members: 0, guests: 244)
Back
Top