kevinspann
Active LVC Member
I'm going to be doing this soon too - I bought the same tool kit, but found it on Amazon for $90 shipped to my door. Should be here this week, then I'll start tear down and order the cam gears, 4 new bolts, and gaskets.
Engine rattles on startup
- Thread starter Telco
- Start date
I'm going to be doing this soon too - I bought the same tool kit, but found it on Amazon for $90 shipped to my door. Should be here this week, then I'll start tear down and order the cam gears, 4 new bolts, and gaskets.
04_Sport_LS
Dedicated LVC Member
RCode,
I called my dealer buddy... and 2w9z6256aa is still the current part number for the LS cam phaser. He also told me that the phaser bolts are "one time use only",,, and need to be replaced when changing the phasers. The bolt part number is 2w9z6a340aa Tasca's prices are about the same as what my buddy quotes me... so the bolts should be a bit over $5 apiece. Cheap insurance!!! As a suggestion,,, you may want to replace the VVT solenoids "as long as you're in there".
I called my dealer buddy... and 2w9z6256aa is still the current part number for the LS cam phaser. He also told me that the phaser bolts are "one time use only",,, and need to be replaced when changing the phasers. The bolt part number is 2w9z6a340aa Tasca's prices are about the same as what my buddy quotes me... so the bolts should be a bit over $5 apiece. Cheap insurance!!! As a suggestion,,, you may want to replace the VVT solenoids "as long as you're in there".
04_Sport_LS
Dedicated LVC Member
RCode,
Forgot to mention that there is another OTC tool that locks the flywheel to the block... so the crank doesn't turn either. Hope all is going well with your phaser/chain replacement.
Forgot to mention that there is another OTC tool that locks the flywheel to the block... so the crank doesn't turn either. Hope all is going well with your phaser/chain replacement.
04_Sport_LS
Dedicated LVC Member
RCode,
Updates??? How's the LS project going???
Updates??? How's the LS project going???
kevinspann
Active LVC Member
A long overdue update from me - I replaced just the cam phasers and the start up rattle is gone. The chains and tensioners all were in good shape. I disassembled the old cam gears and found some minor wear at the locking pin inside the gear, but not enough to cause a problem IMO.
I also noted that before removing the chains, the flats on the cams on the passenger bank of the engine were not quite lined up like they should have been. Whether it was that gear not locking, coincidence, or the gear had slipped just a little, I don't know. The work wasn't especially hard, it just required tearing down the front of the engine all the way. I was able to remove the front cover without removing the power steering pump and AC compressor (just unbolted and moved them enough to work around) which was probably the worst part of the job besides making sure I had the slack properly removed from the chains before tightening the cam gear bolts.
I also noted that before removing the chains, the flats on the cams on the passenger bank of the engine were not quite lined up like they should have been. Whether it was that gear not locking, coincidence, or the gear had slipped just a little, I don't know. The work wasn't especially hard, it just required tearing down the front of the engine all the way. I was able to remove the front cover without removing the power steering pump and AC compressor (just unbolted and moved them enough to work around) which was probably the worst part of the job besides making sure I had the slack properly removed from the chains before tightening the cam gear bolts.
04_Sport_LS
Dedicated LVC Member
Kevin,
Thanks for the update. I was hoping RCode would have chimed in by now. Hopefully everything is ok with him. If the flats on the cams weren't lined up... that could possibly be because the cam chain slipped a tooth due to a weak tensioner. You might want to keep an eye, (ear), on things for a while. Maybe pull the v/c on that side after 1000 miles or so, and see if the flats are still lined up.
Thanks for the update. I was hoping RCode would have chimed in by now. Hopefully everything is ok with him. If the flats on the cams weren't lined up... that could possibly be because the cam chain slipped a tooth due to a weak tensioner. You might want to keep an eye, (ear), on things for a while. Maybe pull the v/c on that side after 1000 miles or so, and see if the flats are still lined up.
Success!!!
All good here and thank you. I just couldn't tear into it until I got a gap in the schedule. Finally did in mid June and had it all torn down just to realize it was going to take longer than I guessed. As noted it is not difficult just a lot of stuff and tedious as could possibly be. Just got it together tonight and it starts without the rattle and runs awesome. The flats on the cams ere perfectly aligned pre and post. The real issue was that I needed four of the bolts as the cam phasers and the cam gears all need them. The first two I got were on back order through Tasca for a month. That is cleared up though, they are now readily available as the second two were secured in a day through the local dealer.
Next up? Tear the dash out to get to the a/c expansion valve....aaaagh!!!
Thanks to you all, took forever to diagnose the horrible startup rattle but now we know for certain. Thanks a million.
All good here and thank you. I just couldn't tear into it until I got a gap in the schedule. Finally did in mid June and had it all torn down just to realize it was going to take longer than I guessed. As noted it is not difficult just a lot of stuff and tedious as could possibly be. Just got it together tonight and it starts without the rattle and runs awesome. The flats on the cams ere perfectly aligned pre and post. The real issue was that I needed four of the bolts as the cam phasers and the cam gears all need them. The first two I got were on back order through Tasca for a month. That is cleared up though, they are now readily available as the second two were secured in a day through the local dealer.
Next up? Tear the dash out to get to the a/c expansion valve....aaaagh!!!
Thanks to you all, took forever to diagnose the horrible startup rattle but now we know for certain. Thanks a million.
amorgan2017
Active LVC Member
Curious if a grinding noise could be cause by the fans? I have an 05 LS that sometimes on a cold start makes a nasty grinding sound for a second. I swear it's only if I had the fan on from the previous day. Idk if it's something to worry about or not fans are working perfect..no noises under a full load, head scratcher I guess.
joegr
Dedicated LVC Member
Are you sure this is an LS? Did you add a fan or two?
amorgan2017
Active LVC Member
Oh my bad I mean when the A/C is on. I wondered if it could be the clutch grinding. It was 6 am when I wrote that. You're right though I don't think it's a big deal.
joegr
Dedicated LVC Member
I have definitely heard the some AC clutches on the LSes make grinding noises when the AC clutch is disengaged. (It will be disengaged for seconds when the engine is started.) You might try the compressor switch on the DATC to verify this. I think it would be easier to hear at cold startup since the engine fan won't be running yet. Adjusting the air gap on the AC clutch should resolve this. One of mine (forget which one) does this just enough to notice if all else is quiet. I don't think that it is a problem that needs to be corrected.
amorgan2017
Active LVC Member
Ok thanks joe, I just wasn't sure exactly what it could be. If I get a chance I'll record it. It happens about 3 seconds into starting up. Now that I thought about it I never noticed until summer. At first it was occasionally..now it's every time on a cold start if I have the a/c on. It's actually pretty loud, enough to make people turn and look haha.
If it's only with the A/C on then it's not the cam phaser startup rattle. This was d protracted diagnosis. If 04SportLS hadn't found the Jag forum posts we might still be going in circles. This is a long thread, so read it carefully and you will be able to determine whether your startup rattle is cam phasers or not.
To make this solution easier to find, we should consider a 'cam phaser startup rattle' thread with the Jag links prominent and posts by those of use who've had the fix completed or done it ourselves. I went through a **** load of diagnostic work and guessing. Glad that's over
Dennis
New LVC Member
I used a commercially available oil additive from an auto supply store -- NO RATTLES since.
joegr
Dedicated LVC Member
Could you please post specifically which one it was that you used? Was it a one time use, or do you add it every time you change the oil? How long ago (time and miles) did you do this?
04_Sport_LS
Dedicated LVC Member
Joe,
When I was digging around on the Jag forums trying to diagnose the cam phaser issue... there was a guy on there that said he replaced 1 quart of oil with ATF for the last 500 miles before an oil change.... and that it worked.
My guess would be that the extra detergent in the ATF flushed out the orifice where the lock pin rides.
The poster in the Jag forum didn't say what type of driving he did... so I tried it once or twice with 1/2 quart of ATF for the last 250 miles ,,, since I do mostly high speed highway driving.
I can't say I noticed a difference,,, but then again I've never really had the startup rattle. Might be because since I've owned my LS at 75K.. it's had a steady diet of synthetic oil.
When I was digging around on the Jag forums trying to diagnose the cam phaser issue... there was a guy on there that said he replaced 1 quart of oil with ATF for the last 500 miles before an oil change.... and that it worked.
My guess would be that the extra detergent in the ATF flushed out the orifice where the lock pin rides.
The poster in the Jag forum didn't say what type of driving he did... so I tried it once or twice with 1/2 quart of ATF for the last 250 miles ,,, since I do mostly high speed highway driving.
I can't say I noticed a difference,,, but then again I've never really had the startup rattle. Might be because since I've owned my LS at 75K.. it's had a steady diet of synthetic oil.
04_Sport_LS
Dedicated LVC Member
Bump