engine&tranny rebuid idea

thethirdeye88

thethirdeye88

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i am debating on tearing down my engine and rebuilding it...balanced and bluprinted, higher compression dome top pistons (maybe 11.5 to 1), port and polish the hell out of the head, 3 angle valve job, lighter valves and better other pieces, custom ground cams from a very reputible source or maybe even custom cams, no regrinds...2nd gen intake, ram air, box it off, cut a hole in my hood...

tear the tranny down check the gears and other stuff, i want a shift kit...are they available?...they shoul be, we use the same 5r55n thats in the GT's...they just wont swap....i figure there is one out there...if you know, let me know...lightweight flywheel, thinking about a stall converter, but dont know how well it will apply for my use...3200 if i can...i need a new tranny linkage assembly too...mines acting funny and getting sticky...

i want the 8.8 pumpkin out of a t-bird or cougar...so i can run some 3.56 gears...or if there was something in between the factory 3.34 and 3.56 that would be perfect....

can i get bigger throttlebodies?...

also going to get an SCT Xcal2...and dyno tune the whole setup...

wanting some custom tube headers, high flow cats, bosch O2 sensors, X-pipe, long good resonators and turndowns to let the exhaust out at the diff...

im thinking about having ILLs do this for me, since he does have a speedshop and is familiar with the car considering he did his own turbo install...

basically do a complete runover of the car, there are various other things that need to be done and all will probably be at the same place...replace what needed...also want strut tower braces for the front and rear, can someone get them?...what about subframe connectors/braces...and depending on how the car comes out a roll cage may be installed...it is definitely being considered...

well thats my idea...sounds pretty good to me...expensive yes...very...but its a good route...plus there is already a supercharged, turbo, and bottle fed landspeed LS...
 
Lots of work for what kind of gain? probably better just boosting.

New GTs have the 5R55S, but I believe it to have alot of the same stuff as The 5R55N. I have considered a stall myself.

8.8 gears go 3.27 to 3.55, nothing in the middle I am aware of. Why not gear more if staying NA?

The chassis already has a strut tower brace and stock is plenty stiff.

I've also looked into TBs. The 4.6 2V throttle body looks like a direct bolt on. Linkage is a little different but nothing that would stop it from going on. Little to gain on the stock motor though.
 
3.56 should be good for gearing...i figure ill get a decenet amount of power out of the whole build...i dont want to go boost or bottle...
 
I don't think you'll get as much as you might expect... unless going very radical. I assume you want to stay with pump fuel, so with a small displacement NA V8, you are very limited.

P&P the heads... might get you 30HP if you're lucky... another 20 for the cams; again, if you're lucky. Bump to 11.5 compression (anything higher and you're talking 104 octane)... maybe another 25-30 HP. Exhaust work, 20 HP, intake... 15HP. Tune, another 15. Lets see that's 130 HP over your stock 252... giving you a whooping 387-ish HP at the crank (at best). And this will cost you an easy $10-$15K to have everything done you're talking about.

Reworked heads: $1000-$1500
4 Custom ground cams: $1000-$1500
8 Custom pistons: $1500
8 Billet Rods: $2500
See, you're already at $6000 minimum and you've not even touched labor for building-installing the engine, the billet crank, tranny work, tuning, fuel injectors/pump/lines, rear end work...

You see why Forced Induction is such an attractive route to take with these engines? Ask CammerFE... he's doing exactly what you want to do right now, but with the 4.0L Jag engine (and set-up for turbo). And he's got connections to get this stuff done at a lighter cost.

Look at it this way; street-able HP/cu inch from NA is at best 1.5:1. That means an engine with a 300 cubic inch displacement will generally give you around 450 street-able HP in naturally aspirated form; try for anything above that and you'll be dealing with a severe idle, horrible lower end power and a thirst for high octane race fuel.

The 3.9L is about what, 238ci? That comes to 357HP making 1.5:1 HP/CU IN.

Sorry man, but I think you're barking up the wrong tree on this one; small displacement isn't where you look when you want to build naturally aspirated and get big numbers (at least not for the street). It would be different if you were talking about an engine that has these parts available; Dollar/HP wouldn't be nearly as bad. But in the end, it is your money.
 
what i am wanting is a naturally aspiriated high output engine...i am willing to run race fuel if needed...i will be getting a daily driver afterwords...weekend warrior...its going to be nuts....
 
im looking for a stroked engine...with a decent amount of power...pushing roughly 300 - 350 at the rear wheels...yeah, its probably not going to be streetable after that, then i get a new daily driver, possibly a 95-96 240sx kouki edition...then and ls1 or ls2 and a t-56 into that project...someone just give some info on my LS project..........
 
Hot Rodding an LS

JMO, of course, but a 1.5 HP/Cu. In. engine is something to go into an early Ford hot rod. Just as was said, it'll idle poorly and be severely short on power at low RPM. Hot rods are great fun, but an LS is not quite the vehicle for that sort of engine.
As was said, I've started over with a Jaguar 4 litre engine and the engine, by itself, will be very mild. But by using a pair of Garrett turbos, TiAL hardware, and an NX Pro spray system I am equipped for all the horsepower I want, but ONLY when I want it. An LS IS a luxury car, after all !! (To simply order a car equipped as mine will be, you'll probably spend 30-50K. I get help from sponsors or I'd probably not be doing this.) When your pocket gets heavy, explore your project with ILLS. He has the knowledge and skills to do a job such as you envision.
KenS from Ben's Place
 
im just going to stroke and bore the sh!t out of it...run race fuel...and get it finished...put it in the garage and get a new daily driver...just have to make the tranny hold up...
 
Well I guess if thats what you want...

But I wouldn't hold my breath on a stroker... or at least how productive it would be. No one really knows if these engines have the ability to "grow" in stroke by much (I'd have to guess they don't). Plus no one has done the work to determine if it's even do-able. There is A LOT that goes into building the first stroker. Crankshaft has to be offset ground, rod has to be longer and sometimes the wrist pin has to be re-located. And all of this has to be done so it works in perfect harmony... You might get lucky and get an extra 20 cu. in. out of it, but I'd be very surprise (stroking the 4.6L only gives you 17 cu. in. as I recall).

If this is something you're serious about, big bore might be something to look into. I don't know the bore spacing of these engines, so it might not even be do-able. BUT, you don't "BORE" an aluminum block engine. Aluminum engines have sleeves... generally you replace the sleeves. Also in general automotive engines they are usually what's call "wet sleeves", meaning the water jackets go right up to the sleeves. For big bore, you press out the factory sleeves and install one substantially bigger... thus increasing your displacement.

As a side note, it's usually not the best idea to max out the bore on an iron block engine; you introduce stresses and problems to the block that would otherwise not be there. Any reputable engine builder will attempt to steer someone away from the idea that boring an engine is a performance modification. It is not; it is simply the process of setting the cylinder walls back to factory spec. While some engines came from the factory with VERY thick cylinder walls and can afford to have the bores opened up by .0060 or more... most max out between .0020 and .0040. Take the 350 chevy for example. Bored .0030 it takes your engine from 350cu. in to 355 cu in. Making 1.5/1 you're looking at 7.5 HP difference. As you can see, boring an engine, contrary to what a LARGE number of guys think... is not a performance addition and anyone that talks about it as such is very misinformed. Ask a machinist what they think about hogging out a bore so you can get an extra 7 HP.

Should you do this, don't forget to keep us updated... would be interesting (and the little 3.9L would sound like an engine straight from an Indy car when you're done... a sound most automotive guys feel to be like music)
 
can you explain your reasoning for choosing:
balanced and bluprinted
higher compression dome top pistons (maybe 11.5 to 1),
port and polish the hell out of the head,
3 angle valve job, lighter valves and better other pieces,
custom ground cams
2nd gen intake, ram air, box it off, cut a hole in my hood...
stroke and bore the sh!t out of it
run race fuel

what's you budget?
are you doing the build?
have tyou done this type of work in the past?
 
N/A build on these cars is a waste of money, go boost or go home.
 
NA Engine Work

The sleeves in my 4 litre Jag engine look to be 'cast-in-place'. On the other hand, the water jackets in the block only extend about 2 inches or a little less down the bore.
In this area (Detroit), a used Jag crank can be had for $75. It's possible to go to 4.2 litres if you use an 86 MM bore and a 90.1 MM stroke. The 3.9 litre engine has an 85 MM bore so it would be necessary to cut .020 from the cylinder wall. It would probably work, but you can buy an entire rebuildable Jag engine for about $1000.00.
There is a 5 litre version of the engine used for road racing in Europe. It is NA and makes 550 HP. That's probably the practical limit.
KenS from Ben's Place
 
Quik LS said:
can you explain your reasoning for choosing:
balanced and bluprinted
higher compression dome top pistons (maybe 11.5 to 1),
port and polish the hell out of the head,
3 angle valve job, lighter valves and better other pieces,
custom ground cams
2nd gen intake, ram air, box it off, cut a hole in my hood...
stroke and bore the sh!t out of it
run race fuel

what's you budget?
are you doing the build?
have tyou done this type of work in the past?
Click to expand...

ok, first...this is just an idea...but it could be quite possible also...i may run into some money thru family stuff...
and second...no way in hell am i doing the build...i know what i want, and what i think i can accomplish with said products...i will find a reputable tuner for the job...i know you and ILLs know you $h!t when it comes to the LS...i have never done this type or any really like it before...but i will learn eventually...just as we all do...i am still young, and eager to learn...

i want to build a retarted LS...something to throw people all the way off and piss off rednecks...im thinking by increasing bore and compression, opening the heads, tubeular headers, custom exhaust, 2nd gen intake, full cam, valves, valvesprings, etc...and do as much to the tranny as possible...

then buy a cheap daily driver and put the LS in the garage...

and thats not adding a new non sport bumper (although i have a sport)...and the evo lip kit...new paint, possibly lower springs...those braces like you have in your engine bay that connects from the strut towers, and i want one in the back as well, thinking about 19's too...and a possibility of a roll cage and ///M3 seats...maybe the bmw paddle shifters too...

i really want all of this and it may happen, imagine if it does...:eek: :D :shifty:
 
that would be an LS-gasim.

everyone has that dream, of the "ideal" LS, if you can pull it off i will admire it, but its gonna take ALOT of work. more power to ya.
 
ok, bore and high compression..balalnced and blueprinted, 11.5-1 at least compression...beef the tranny as much as possible...8.8 pumpkin out of thunderbird or xr-7 cougar so i can run 3.56 gears...tubular headers, custom exhaust...open the heads as wide as possible, 3 angle valve job, bigger lighter valves, honeycomb double springs...custom ground cams or custom cams. 2nd gen intake because it flows better, bigger throttlebody, i want somethin i can still bolt up a k&n filet charger or still use my KKM intake, make a custom ram air...

seriously...this might happen...plus a roll cage and alot of gauges...
 
cammerfe said:
The sleeves in my 4 litre Jag engine look to be 'cast-in-place'. On the other hand, the water jackets in the block only extend about 2 inches or a little less down the bore.
In this area (Detroit), a used Jag crank can be had for $75. It's possible to go to 4.2 litres if you use an 86 MM bore and a 90.1 MM stroke. The 3.9 litre engine has an 85 MM bore so it would be necessary to cut .020 from the cylinder wall. It would probably work, but you can buy an entire rebuildable Jag engine for about $1000.00.
There is a 5 litre version of the engine used for road racing in Europe. It is NA and makes 550 HP. That's probably the practical limit.
KenS from Ben's Place
Click to expand...

ok, pay attention to what i want to build and start pointing me in directions....you people know more than i do....i need to use the factory block and everything....just help me out in what i should do...this might happen...
 
NateRW21 said:
Well I guess if thats what you want...

But I wouldn't hold my breath on a stroker... or at least how productive it would be. No one really knows if these engines have the ability to "grow" in stroke by much (I'd have to guess they don't). Plus no one has done the work to determine if it's even do-able. There is A LOT that goes into building the first stroker. Crankshaft has to be offset ground, rod has to be longer and sometimes the wrist pin has to be re-located. And all of this has to be done so it works in perfect harmony... You might get lucky and get an extra 20 cu. in. out of it, but I'd be very surprise (stroking the 4.6L only gives you 17 cu. in. as I recall).

If this is something you're serious about, big bore might be something to look into. I don't know the bore spacing of these engines, so it might not even be do-able. BUT, you don't "BORE" an aluminum block engine. Aluminum engines have sleeves... generally you replace the sleeves. Also in general automotive engines they are usually what's call "wet sleeves", meaning the water jackets go right up to the sleeves. For big bore, you press out the factory sleeves and install one substantially bigger... thus increasing your displacement.

As a side note, it's usually not the best idea to max out the bore on an iron block engine; you introduce stresses and problems to the block that would otherwise not be there. Any reputable engine builder will attempt to steer someone away from the idea that boring an engine is a performance modification. It is not; it is simply the process of setting the cylinder walls back to factory spec. While some engines came from the factory with VERY thick cylinder walls and can afford to have the bores opened up by .0060 or more... most max out between .0020 and .0040. Take the 350 chevy for example. Bored .0030 it takes your engine from 350cu. in to 355 cu in. Making 1.5/1 you're looking at 7.5 HP difference. As you can see, boring an engine, contrary to what a LARGE number of guys think... is not a performance addition and anyone that talks about it as such is very misinformed. Ask a machinist what they think about hogging out a bore so you can get an extra 7 HP.

Should you do this, don't forget to keep us updated... would be interesting (and the little 3.9L would sound like an engine straight from an Indy car when you're done... a sound most automotive guys feel to be like music)
Click to expand...

do we have an iron block?...i did not read all of this...but tell me...send me pm's or just keep this thread alive
an all NA LS thats a screamer...come on people...think about the power in the range that would provide?...
 
NateRW21 said:
Well I guess if thats what you want...

But I wouldn't hold my breath on a stroker... or at least how productive it would be. No one really knows if these engines have the ability to "grow" in stroke by much (I'd have to guess they don't). Plus no one has done the work to determine if it's even do-able. There is A LOT that goes into building the first stroker. Crankshaft has to be offset ground, rod has to be longer and sometimes the wrist pin has to be re-located. And all of this has to be done so it works in perfect harmony... You might get lucky and get an extra 20 cu. in. out of it, but I'd be very surprise (stroking the 4.6L only gives you 17 cu. in. as I recall).

If this is something you're serious about, big bore might be something to look into. I don't know the bore spacing of these engines, so it might not even be do-able. BUT, you don't "BORE" an aluminum block engine. Aluminum engines have sleeves... generally you replace the sleeves. Also in general automotive engines they are usually what's call "wet sleeves", meaning the water jackets go right up to the sleeves. For big bore, you press out the factory sleeves and install one substantially bigger... thus increasing your displacement.

As a side note, it's usually not the best idea to max out the bore on an iron block engine; you introduce stresses and problems to the block that would otherwise not be there. Any reputable engine builder will attempt to steer someone away from the idea that boring an engine is a performance modification. It is not; it is simply the process of setting the cylinder walls back to factory spec. While some engines came from the factory with VERY thick cylinder walls and can afford to have the bores opened up by .0060 or more... most max out between .0020 and .0040. Take the 350 chevy for example. Bored .0030 it takes your engine from 350cu. in to 355 cu in. Making 1.5/1 you're looking at 7.5 HP difference. As you can see, boring an engine, contrary to what a LARGE number of guys think... is not a performance addition and anyone that talks about it as such is very misinformed. Ask a machinist what they think about hogging out a bore so you can get an extra 7 HP.

Should you do this, don't forget to keep us updated... would be interesting (and the little 3.9L would sound like an engine straight from an Indy car when you're done... a sound most automotive guys feel to be like music)
Click to expand...

i know you dont want to bore the cylinder walls on an iron block tooo close...i think i am looking for just a as much bore as possible and race gas fir the high compression...plus i will buy me a 95 or 96 240sx nissan 5spd if any happens to have one that is in good shape...but the LS will be garage kept, i am thinking of gettin that evo lip kit(pinting it black) along woth my hood, trunk and possibly roof....there might be some even lower springs and 19's....new brakes or better ones....i like the factory calipers with EBC rotors and red stuff pads....someone add in advice please... and read all of this....
 
this car will be nuts....just wait, if it happens....keep this thread up....if anyone does my work it will be ILLs...so therefore i will be putting money in his pocket...let him know....
 
yes, they are ramblings...but i may just roll into a stack of money to be able to make this happen...inheritance...sorry to say, but yeah...what would you do?...then get me a cheap daily driver...done deal...garage kept monster to freak the hell out of the people in this town...mustangs and camaro...corvette everynow and then....built older hot rods, go to jonesboro and people have some nice toys...back in the day at rivergate in memphis there was some nice :q:q:q:q...
 
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