Flashing yellow AdvanceTrac icon after New Brakes

[LDM]

Went in for all 4 corners to have new rotors and pads installed.

The fronts were installed.

The rear drivers side caliper piston was compressing slowly, and they ran out of time. They said it compressed 3/4 of the way in 20 minutes. One employee said to replace both rear calipers (says replace in pairs, when one goes the other will too). The tech said he just needs more time to compress it and clean it. Says it's wearing the previous pads evenly, so it should be ok. The passenger side rear brake had not been looked at yet.

They put the rears back together (no new rotors or pads), and said to come back tomorrow when they have more time.

They test drove it around the lot and when returning it to me the "Check AdvanceTrac" message came up in the display, and a blinking yellow AdvanceTrac icon is on the top middle of the instrument cluster.

Codes were checked, none found. The "Check AdvanceTrac" message was gone, but I still had a blinking yellow AdvanceTrac icon.

They told me to bring it back tomorrow.

On the way home the AdvanceTrac icon blinked the whole time. I turned AdvanceTrac off and on, and then left it off driving home.

Felt like a brake pulsation all the way home, even when not applying the breaks...more noticeable at speeds 40+.

If the piston is not moving well, I would think a caliper rebuild kit would be in order (if they do that).

Should I just tell them to clean it, order a rebuild kit, or get new calipers for the rear?

Would the piston not compressing freely cause a yellow blinking AdvanceTrac icon on the dash now?

(I've read most of the forum threads about AdvanceTrac... this seems to be a different problem and related to current brake work).

 

[seekonkholen1]

Sounds like one of your ABS Sensors are acting up. Probably one of the rears

 

[Hawk03]

A flashing advancetrack icon is more than likely means a sensor needs to be recalibrated, check yaw or steering wheel angle sensor. This will need to be done at the dealer through their diagnostics.

 

[Lincoln Luebbe]

Were they trying to compress the rears like idiots or screw the piston back in with a caliper compression tool like it is supposed to be? The rears don't compress, they turn/screw back in. There is no reason a caliper should take more than 30-50 seconds to compress. Certainly not 20 minutes.

 

[joegr]

Were they trying to compress the rears like idiots or screw the piston back in with a caliper compression tool like it is supposed to be? The rears don't compress, they turn/screw back in. There is no reason a caliper should take more than 30-50 seconds to compress. Certainly not 20 minutes.

Exactly that. They may now have damaged that caliper. You need to find somewhere better to get this done. There was a code or code(s) left by the AdvanceTrac system. They apparently don't have to right scan tool to pick it/them up. Generic scanners won't do it. They should have at least known that was the issue. There's a word I'm trying to think of ... Incompetent that's it.

 

[has2be]

"There's a word I'm trying to think of ... Incompetent that's it. "

:I

 

[Tru-Blu]

:Bang

:I

 

[LDM]

I was standing there with the caliper and mentioned you need a specific tool to turn the caliper not just push it, and they said they had it and have serviced many LS's.

When scanning I mentioned they needed a unique scanner to read these codes, and the tech that bought the scanner was there and said he bought a correct one.

It's an alignment and brake shop that's been around for over 15 years... I had 2 referrals to this location. They already did my Eibachs, shocks, toe-links, sway bar links, ES sway bar bushings, alignment and installed the SS brake lines previously.

(I called them today and they don't rebuild calipers or put in kits anymore. I called Max and he said he hasn't sold a rebuild kit in years, shops just replace the caliper instead).

 

[LDM]

I have made multiple calls (Max, another Lincoln dealer etc), there are no Motorcraft rear calipers in town. Multi people/shops I talked to mentioned incompetence... as did a few LVC'rs.

A Lincoln dealership I use said to bring it down, and they will check the caliper at issue and scan the codes, then put my new pads and rotors on.

Leaving now... will update later.

 

[joegr]

...When scanning I mentioned they needed a unique scanner to read these codes, and the tech that bought the scanner was there and said he bought a correct one.

...

I have yet to scan an LS (even one with no problems at all) that didn't have at least a few false failure codes (for things like comms errors) stored. Of course, I guess anything is possible.

 

[2002_lincolnLS]

I did not know you had to screw the piston back in, this is good information. Is that for both gens, Also can I buy this tool from sears or somewhere like that or is a specialty tool I would have to order.

 

[PaulD]

I did not know you had to screw the piston back in, this is good information. Is that for both gens, Also can I buy this tool from sears or somewhere like that or is a specialty tool I would have to order.

You need a tool for a 1 5/8" piston that screws it in such as the Lisle #25110

 

[Hawk03]

I did not know you had to screw the piston back in, this is good information. Is that for both gens, Also can I buy this tool from sears or somewhere like that or is a specialty tool I would have to order.

http://www.harborfreight.com/18-piece-disc-brake-pad-and-caliper-service-tool-kit-97143.html

I bought a cheaper set from them a few years ago but I didn't see when I searched to it.

 

[joegr]

I did not know you had to screw the piston back in, this is good information. Is that for both gens, Also can I buy this tool from sears or somewhere like that or is a specialty tool I would have to order.

Something like this will do it.

http://www.harborfreight.com/18-piece-disc-brake-pad-and-caliper-service-tool-kit-97143.html

Don't buy the $5 "cube" tool.

 

[manoli]

http://www.harborfreight.com/18-piece-disc-brake-pad-and-caliper-service-tool-kit-97143.html

I bought a cheaper set from them a few years ago but I didn't see when I searched to it.

Thats not a bad set for 40 bucks wish I had this when I did my rear brake pads.

 

[joegr]

http://www.harborfreight.com/18-piece-disc-brake-pad-and-caliper-service-tool-kit-97143.html

I bought a cheaper set from them a few years ago but I didn't see when I searched to it.

Yeah, I have the cheaper set ($10 less I think), but they don't sell it anymore. Amazon might.

 

[Lincoln Luebbe]

I just rented a set from Autozone, $60.00 but fully refundable. But I need to invest in a set for my own permanent use.

 

[LDM]

I just got a ride home. The dealership ran out of time after 5.5 hours (part of that time was waiting for part deliveries).

The Lincoln dealership said the same thing as yesterdays brake shop, and took me in the bay and showed me the tool and I watched them try to turn in the drivers rear caliper. It would not move. I said check the passenger rear so I know how many calipers to order. That side would not move either (I watched). Both rear rotors are worn bad.

I ordered 2 rear calipers that were available in town (Raybestos).

They got those delivered.

Put both rear calipers on, my new rotors and my new brake pads.

Test drive still had a blinking yellow AdvanceTrac icon on the dash. They bled the rears twice. Another test drive, same problem and no pedel pressure.

I had them check for codes at the end of the day.
Two AdvanceTrac codes were found: 1288 & 1289 (What do these mean?)

They will do a 4 wheel brake bleed tomorrow and test the car, then they will call me.

 

[LDM]

C1288 - Pressure Transducer Main / Primary Input Circuit Failure
C1289 - Pressure Transducer Redundant / Secondary Input Circuit Failure

http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/showthread.php?t=40360&highlight=transducer

That thread above stated: They said there was a software update available and they just reflashed the transmission. Took care of the AdvanceTrac icon on the dash. Cost was $111.00. We'll see if this takes care of the intermittent "check advancetrac" message from the message center.

I'd question that this is transmission related... but what ever.

 

[joegr]

C1288 - Brake Pressure Transducer Input Circuit Failure
C1289 - Brake Pressure Sensor Circuit Failure

I suppose that these might have been caused by pushing the calipers in without opening the bleed screw and forcing dirty brake fluid from the calipers back into the master cylinder.

You may be in for a new ABS module, master cylinder, or brake booster.
Alternately, it could be a wiring issue.

 

[LDM]

Per RockAuto:

Motorcraft Master Cylinder $408
Motorcraft Power Brake Booster $540

Of course the dealership will have a markup, plus labor.

I am already into the brakes so far for $1189, and can't drive it.
Why stop now... (so if it's either of those above, it's another $1000+)

4 R1Concepts Premium Slotted Rotors $299
4 Porterfield R4-S Brake Pads $135
2 Raybestos Rear Calipers $153
4 StopTech SS Brake Lines $158
Front Labor $75
Rear Labor $289
Misc parts $20
Diagnostic (at 50% off) $60
Total $1,189

(I took it to the dealership a month ago because it was shaking, they said it was Coils. I replaced those with new plugs. Still shook, they said it was the tires. Replaced those. Still shook, and I found bad rear tie rods. Replaced those with new sway bar links and bushings. Better but still kinda shook. It's been aligned 4 times since then, and tires balanced twice and then road balanced. It may have been the tie rods and brakes the whole time).

 

[LDM]

No pedal pressure after bleeding the brakes this morning. Ordered a new Master Cylinder (I told them to get an A1 Cardone master cylinder for $189 at their dealership price, instead of Motorcraft for $487). They got that on late afternoon. No pedal pressure. They said I must have only had pedal pressure before due to the rear calipers being in a locked outward position, implying in a general always on braking position.

The yellow AdvanceTrac blinking icon is now off, after the master cylinder replacement.

They are going to bleed the brakes again in the AM.

If no pressure, they will get a new power brake booster installed.

 

[LDM]

No pedal pressure again after working on it all day today. They said it's not safe to drive and they can't release it to me. The Lincoln dealership even got Ford Hotline involved. They manually did a brake bleed 4 times today, and used an ABS method to bleed the brakes. They said it may be the new master cylinder is bad, and they would have to exchange it for another new one, and charge me more labor (because I authorized them to get a non-motorcraft part - to save money).

So, it's been in for brakes 4 days now, and they still don't work. With the holiday coming up, if they don't get it done soon I won't get it back until Tuesday.

Anyone have an idea what the real problem is? (Nearly $2000 in parts and labor should have fixed any brake problem it ever had by now).

 

[LDM]

Reading this thread:
http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=845924

#1. SS braklines included in the set leak really bad from where they attach to the caliper. After checking everything out it seems they gave me multiple sizes of crush washers which don't provide the needed seal. I am going to try and locate the right size and go from there.

And then the line leaked so we had to put the old line back on since the crush washers that came with the lines were not all the same size. Be sure to check that they are all the same/right size before the install. It will save you alot of trouble.

I had a brake shop put on my new SS lines from StopTech. I don't know anything about crush washers or what was provided. When I left after getting them installed I stated in another thread there was smoke coming from all around my car... and I wrote it off as possible brake fluid got on things and burned off. It stopped smoking within a few miles.

With that said... is it possible there is an issue here with the crush washers, causing a loss of pressure... being the root cause of no brake pedal pressure? (Wild guess, grabbing at straws here).

I'd also like to point out that all my problems started immediately after getting these StopTech SS brake lines installed. Car wobbled/shook after leaving. Smoke started then stopped. Drove directly from the brake shop to the Lincoln dealership. Been replacing parts ever since the SS lines. Dealership thought the shakes were from coils, those were replaced. Still shook, they said it was tires. Got new tires, still shook. I had the tie rods and swar bar links and bushings installed. Still shook. Got new pads and rotors, went to have them installed and the rear calipers wouldn't compress/go in. Dealership says the rear brakes were like always on since the caliper pad would not go in. Rear calipers replaced, all new rotors installed, all new pads installed, new master cylinder installed... and no brake pedal pressure.

Should I remove the SS lines and have the dealership install stock brake lines, bolts, washers etc? Or maybe tell them to install new crush washers?

Crush washer related posts below (I would think there would be a brake fluid leak, but is it possible to have a small enough leak that it let's air in causing a loss of pressure?)

http://www.taurusclub.com/forum/118-suspension-handling-brakes/160251-brake-hose-woes-leaking.html

http://www.ubracing.co.uk/index.php?limitstart=20

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/emergency-stop-brake-pressure-loss-601360/

http://www.gixxer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=291959

http://www.stuntlife.com/forums/2-stunt-discussion/283753-help-me-i-may.html

http://www.opelgt.com/forums/group-5-brakes/25457-banjo-fitting-crush-washers-2.html

 

[LDM]

The dealership has done a brake bleed multiple times this week (manually bleed them yesterday 4 times, plus did a ABS brake bleed). They have been working with Ford Technical Support Hotline too.

I mentioned to the dealership this morning to make sure there are crush washers on the new SS brake lines, maybe replace them. They said the brake fluid would be leaking so that is not the problem.

They are using Motorcraft DOT3 brake fluid, and will only use that as it's the recommended fluid for all their vehicles.

They are going to replace the new master cyclinder again with another A1 Cadone brand as an exchange, and charge me another $350 in labor plus $25 for more brake fluid. They didn't have a Motorcraft master cylinder and would have had to order it, plus I wanted to save money... so I authorized a non-Motorcraft part originally. They said if it had been a Motorcraft Master Cylinder the labor would have been covered.

So it's costing me more money for a non-motorcraft master cylinder, than it would have for a motorcraft master cylinder.

New brake fluid installed. Brakes have been blead about 12 times this week by the Lincoln Dealership manually, plus an ABS brake bleed, plus 2 times on Monday this week by a brake shop.

So far it's been $1950 for 4 new rotors, 4 sets of new pads, 2 new rear calipers, front & rear StopTech SS brake lines, 2 new master cylinders... and the brakes still don't work (pedal goes nearly to floor, no brake pressure, spongy feel).